Looking Ahead to a Seattle Expansion Draft

[Hiesenberg]

Gotta trade him while his value is high.

But seriously, let me redo that list.

C. Giroux, J. Voracek, S. Couturier, N. Patrick, T. Konecny, O. Lindblom, M. Vorobyev
I. Provorov, S. Gostisbehere, T. Sanheim
A. Goalie

Trade a 1st to Seattle to keep P. Myers and have them take N. Aube-Kubel.

I think if this is possibility and Myers looks legit. You leave Voracek unprotected, either you get a big contract taken off your books, or his contract is almost like an extra protection.

 

[Magua]

I do think, relating to our expansion list, Myers -- who of course is the attention grabbing player who may be exposed -- gets overvalued. Not to say we overvalue his potential, but he may only have 1-2 years of NHL experience at that point, with various ups and downs. He might not get a shred of PP time and will have to do his damage in 5v5 minutes. We might be talking 20-25 points here as a green NHL, undrafted d-man. I don't think a reasonable trade with Seattle is that outlandish in possibility or cost. Each d-man sinking the cost of the other benefits us here.

And the idea of losing Voracek instead of a late 1st+NAK or something just seems questionable to me, barring the dramatic. Those 4 years after expansion could be our window, and we're giving away a soon to be 31 year old high end winger with term -- who makes $1.25 mil more than Evander Kane? I hate to say it, but a player like Jake is more important and irreplaceable to our contending than someone who ideally is our 4th most important d-man. But I think we can have our cake and eat it too. Based on the last expansion draft and seemingly all of NHL general managing, it isn't dog-eat-dog -- it's high society politeness. And if we protect 7 forwards, we have room to add and protect another high quality forward in lieu of Vorobyev, etc.

Another thing worth mention: we likely have to expose a d-man with 40/70 games. Does make me wonder if Hagg gets a 3 year contract this summer.

I also imagine that with this expansion, we'll see more trades between teams to set up a protected list and fewer with Seattle. The Jets moved down 13 spots in last year's draft and gave up an additional third round pick to protect Enstrom. The Wild gave up Alex Tuch and a third to protect Dumba. The Islanders gave up a first, a second, and some plugs to protect their core. The Penguins gave up a second to ensure they also gave up Fleury. The Lightning gave up a second and a fourth to protect Koekkoek and Dotchkin. The Ducks gave up Theodore to protect Manson and Vatanen.

It really does depend though, doesn't it? We know that some teams made questionable trades to protect questionable players. I look at the Ducks as being in the EXACT same situation we could be in, and I look at them as a team that did well all things considered -- and they got Vegas to take Stoner, who was worthless.

They had Fowler, Manson, Lindholm, Vatanen all wanting to be protected for obvious reasons; and they had Theodore and Montour in the wings as similar offensive d-men needing PP time in limited minutes. And it wasn't even a 1-for-1 with the Flyers; the Ducks HAD to protect Bieksa and leave 2 highly valued d-men available, not 1.

They decided that Theodore was more expendable than Vatanen -- who later became Henrique+ -- and Manson, based on performance and/or value. I don't think they were wrong. And Montour matched Theodore's rookie year for the Ducks and might be better; that was a case of opportunity cost. I don't think they're a team who came out any worse than when they went in.

 

[Curufinwe]

I already got Hagg pencilled in for 3 x $2m.

 

[denominator]

It really does depend though, doesn't it? We know that some teams made questionable trades to protect questionable players. I look at the Ducks as being in the EXACT same situation we could be in, and I look at them as a team that did well all things considered -- and they got Vegas to take Stoner, who was worthless.

They had Fowler, Manson, Lindholm, Vatanen all wanting to be protected for obvious reasons; and they had Theodore and Montour in the wings as similar offensive d-men needing PP time in limited minutes. And it wasn't even a 1-for-1 with the Flyers; the Ducks HAD to protect Bieksa and leave 2 highly valued d-men available, not 1.

They decided that Theodore was more expendable than Vatanen -- who later became Henrique+ -- and Manson, based on performance and/or value. I don't think they were wrong. And Montour matched Theodore's rookie year for the Ducks and might be better; that was a case of opportunity cost. I don't think they're a team who came out any worse than when they went in.

I agree. I think of all the teams that made trades on expansion day last year, the Ducks look best now. Montour and Theodore were about equivalent, and I think the franchise had higher hopes for Theodore that he never really hit (he was supposed to be the next Ghostisbehere or Parayko) so it was easier to cut ties with him. Keeping Vatanen was especially smart, because I don't think they'd have gotten the same return moving out Montour or Theodore if Vatanen was in Vegas. The Ducks stay contenders out here every year because of good long-term asset management, and in terms of teams in tough positions on expansion day last year; I think they came out the best.

 

[Curufinwe]

Gotta trade him while his value is high.

But seriously, let me redo that list.

C. Giroux, J. Voracek, S. Couturier, N. Patrick, T. Konecny, O. Lindblom, M. Vorobyev
I. Provorov, S. Gostisbehere, T. Sanheim
A. Goalie

Trade a 1st to Seattle to keep P. Myers and have them take N. Aube-Kubel.

Updated

C. Giroux, J. Voracek, S. Couturier, N. Patrick, T. Konecny, O. Lindblom, K. Hayes
I. Provorov, S. Gostisbehere, T. Sanheim
C. Hart

Trade a 1st to Seattle to keep P. Myers and have them take A. Skater.

 

[landsbergfan]

Updated

C. Giroux, J. Voracek, S. Couturier, N. Patrick, T. Konecny, O. Lindblom, K. Hayes
I. Provorov, S. Gostisbehere, T. Sanheim
C. Hart

Trade a 1st to Seattle to keep P. Myers and have them take A. Skater.

You don't think they'd just be happy enough to take JVR? We may have to actually expose Myers though there should be an easy way around that.

 

[Curufinwe]

I actually forgot about JVR who wasn't signed when I made that list in May last year. Let's just assume he's traded for futures.

We do have to keep in mind these rules about who has to be exposed. Maybe JVR is one of the two exposed forwards. Maybe Fletcher's replacement makes Hayes the other one. So much can change in two years.

Forwards	2	under contract in 2021-22, AND played in 40 or more NHL games last season, OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the last two seasons
Defense	1	under contract in 2021-22, AND played in 40 or more NHL games last season, OR played in 70 or more NHL games in the last two seasons
Goalies	1	under contract in 2017-18, OR who’s contract is expiring & is an RFA in 2021-22

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

 

[MCoster]

It should probably work itself out. A lot can change in 2 years but for now, assuming no turnover:

Giroux, Couturier, Patrick, Konecny, and Lindblom seem like 5 of the 7 obvious forwards, then you expose 1-2 of Voracek, Hayes, JVR if their play diminishes in the next 2 seasons and protect 1-2 of them who's play has remained consistent/as hoped.

Same with the defense, big fan of all 4 but odds are one of Provorov, Sanheim, Ghost, or Myers don't progress/regress where you're okay leaving them exposed. Worst case, they're all studs and you either trade one for a haul before the draft, or trade a pick to convince Seattle not to take them.

Then Hart as the goalie protected.

I'm just not sure if guys like Frost/Farabee are eligible because it seems like to be eligible, all you have to do is play 40 games the season prior which I hope at least one of them would.

 

[Tripod]

It could all hinder on how Myers turns out. Could go 4 and 4. Assuming nothing else changes in 2 years:

Giroux, Couts, Patrick, TK
Provy, Sanheim, Ghost, Myers

At worst, they take a big contract off our hands in Jake, JVR, or Hayes....or take Lindblom who is 2nd liner at best most likely.

I don't want to trade away a 1st to avoid someone being taken. No sense losing 2 good pieces.

 

[BrindamoursNose]

It could all hinder on how Myers turns out. Could go 4 and 4. Assuming nothing else changes in 2 years:

Giroux, Couts, Patrick, TK
Provy, Sanheim, Ghost, Myers

At worst, they take a big contract off our hands in Jake, JVR, or Hayes....or take Lindblom who is 2nd liner at best most likely.

I don't want to trade away a 1st to avoid someone being taken. No sense losing 2 good pieces.

What if you trade a 1st for them to take a specific piece, such as JVR?

 

[Tripod]

What if you trade a 1st for them to take a specific piece, such as JVR?

Honestly, why not bite the bullet.

I would rather lose Lindblom, than trade a 1st and lose JVR and the 1st.

But as stated in the other thread, if cap space becomes an issue in the next 2 years, trading JVR is an option I can see Fletch exploring...assuming Farabee keeps developing....as I see him as the logical replacement.

 

[LegionOfDoom91]

Chuck had four NMC’s with Minnesota. So he had to protect Suter, Parise, Koviu, & Pommenville as they had NMC’s.

Parise (NMC)
Koviu (NMC)
Pomminville (NMC)
Coyle
Granlund
Niederreiter
Zucker

Suter (NMC)
Spurgeon
Brodin

Dubnyk

He left exposed Dumba & Staal. He traded Tuch for essentially what ended up being a third rounder to avoid those guys & take Haula. So they lost two players but it isn’t/wasn’t Florida bad. Haula isn’t someone I would care about so it essentially comes down to Dumba vs. Tuch.

Fortunately as of right now we only have one NMC in Giroux on the books pending the Hayes contract.

 

[Magua]

If Hayes has a NTC.....7-3-1. That was easy.

Giroux, Couturier, Hayes, Konecny, Patrick, Voracek, JVR/Lindblom

Well, at least this takes away that discussion. Now, it's do we give up Myers, trade Myers to a 3rd team, or try to find a trade package with Seattle to keep him? Or, we could just trade Ghost!

 

[Starat327]

If Hayes has a NTC.....7-3-1. That was easy.

Giroux, Couturier, Hayes, Konecny, Patrick, Voracek, JVR/Lindblom

Well, at least this takes away that discussion. Now, it's do we give up Myers, trade Myers to a 3rd team, or try to find a trade package with Seattle to keep him? Or, we could just trade Ghost!

Trading Ghost is the obvious answer, because things.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Trading Ghost is the obvious answer, because things.

Trading Ghost and drafting defensemen with the firsts you get in that deal, I guess.

 

[Jtown]

If Hayes has a NTC.....7-3-1. That was easy.

Giroux, Couturier, Hayes, Konecny, Patrick, Voracek, JVR/Lindblom

Well, at least this takes away that discussion. Now, it's do we give up Myers, trade Myers to a 3rd team, or try to find a trade package with Seattle to keep him? Or, we could just trade Ghost!

the smart thing is to trade provorov.

 

[Prongo]

the smart thing is to trade provorov.

Your ideas sometimes are completely asinine.

 

[Starat327]

Trading Ghost and drafting defensemen with the firsts you get in that deal, I guess.

Which makes the team worse today, so how much better did we really get?

 

[FlyerNutter]

Which makes the team worse today, so how much better did we really get?

But we did things. Moves. Progress. Excitement.

 

[Willis88]

the smart thing is to trade provorov.

absolutely not.

 

[Jtown]

Your ideas sometimes are completely asinine.

never. Especially not this one.

This team is heading for Cap Hell. WHen you already see what is on the Horizon you need to prepare for it by making sure you have a steady stream of cheap assets that can offset the big money contracts. Because of that I place greater value in Myers and Ghost who are cheap commodities. Sanheim is clearly a deal breaker so that leaves us with Provorov.

The reason why I am open to exploring options with Provorov is because of how he is perceived league wide . That perception will impact things in two ways , the First is he will command a significant dollar amount, and second in any trade situation he would command a tremendous return.

Those two things are quintessential to keeping the post expansion draft window of competitiveness ( which is the window of competitiveness that we should have targeted from the get go) open. We have now displaced Provorov's contract while continue to provide the franchise with a treasure chest of cheap commodities. No other dman trade affords us those things.

 

[Rich Nixon]

Which makes the team worse today, so how much better did we really get?

Oh, I mean...y’know, then. In 2020 or 2021, when Ghost is 27 or 28 and knocking on death’s door.

 

[bennysflyers16]

Which makes the team worse today, so how much better did we really get?

Think he meant trading Ghost in 2 years

 

[Starat327]

Oh, I mean...y’know, then. In 2020 or 2021, when Ghost is 27 or 28 and knocking on death’s door.

Ah, I thought you meant now, my mistake.

 

[landsbergfan]

Trading Ghost is the obvious answer, because things.

If we move Ghost to wing we only expose Lindblom