Lockout IV: One likes to believe in the freedom of hockey (Moderated: see post #2)

[Actual Thought*]

That's your opinion and I respect it, though I fully disagree. Hockey has never been better, largely because of parity.

I'm an old-school fan and I'd love to see more emotion & physicality (I loved the days of Bruise Brothers, Philly loaded with enforcers, Ducks & Stars having so many fights that officials didn't want to call any icings, off-sides etc because they feared that the resulting face-off would result in more 5 on 5 brawls etc) but it's impossible to argue that salary cap hasn't made the game more exciting because of parity.

I am not making the argument for more fighting. When the Wings matched up against the Avs or the Devils in the mid 90s the games were intense. Top notch players from the first line to the fourth. Hockey at its' best. Now? One good line on each team.

 

[Pepper]

Because they are not allowed to spend the money they have and want to. Detroit is not a great destination, its a great team with great owners, but it kinda sucks to live here because there is not a ton to do if you are a big city person. Putting a cap on spending to create a better team in a market that wont support it is pure stupidity.

So why do players sign with Buffalo or Ottawa?

And actually who has put a cap on spending to create a better team in a market that won't support it? Which are those markets?

 

[Fishhead]

Yes, being well run leads to more money. Create a good product as the Wings did and people will support it.

Not necessarily. You could argue that NJ is one of the best run franchises out there, yet they have never been very profitable. There are also some really poorly run franchises that make money.

What leads to more money is high demand, which can certainly come from a successful product. But it can also come from many other things. Toronto is very unsuccessful on the ice yet rakes in the money, mainly because the fans keep spending incredible amounts of dollars on a middling (at best) product. The pressure on tickets there is astronomical.

 

[SettlementRichie10]

I really don't see the PA getting anywhere with a DOI or decert, not with legal precedence going against them in other leagues. The NHL is going to crush them in court if it goes that far, which it won't. The PA will end up signing a deal they could have had months ago and will have lost millions in the process. Go team Fehr!

 

[Pepper]

I am not making the argument for more fighting. When the Wings matched up against the Avs or the Devils in the mid 90s the games were intense. Top notch players from the first line to the fourth. Hockey at its' best. Now? One good line on each team.

Oh please. Look at the roster of Wings in '97 play-offs for example and tell me their line-up was to notch beyond first 2 lines. Rubbish!

 

[Riptide]

I am not making the argument for more fighting. When the Wings matched up against the Avs or the Devils in the mid 90s the games were intense. Top notch players from the first line to the fourth. Hockey at its' best. Now? One good line on each team.

They were intense because those were top teams that had a great rivalry. You see the same between Vancouver and Chicago, Detroit and Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh and Philly, Pittsburgh and Washington, Boston and Montreal, Montreal and Toronto, Toronto and Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton, etc. There's probably a few more, but I think that's a majority of the bigger ones (although some of those are more regional rivalries than the top quality of play).

And it wasn't stars on all 4 lines. I love the way Maltby and Draper played... but at the end of the day, they're still 3rd liners at best. We've seen with allstar teams that pure talent alone doesn't win, and that teams need guys who can play a shutdown role. Sometimes there's stars who can play that role (Datysuk, Richards, etc). However those guys are few and far between. So teams find other guys who can play that role.

There's more than enough talent for 30 teams - heck I think they could even have a couple more teams.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

They were intense because those were top teams that had a great rivalry. You see the same between Vancouver and Chicago, Detroit and Pittsburgh, Pittsburgh and Philly, Pittsburgh and Washington, Boston and Montreal, Montreal and Toronto, Toronto and Ottawa, Calgary and Edmonton, etc. There's probably a few more, but I think that's a majority of the bigger ones (although some of those are more regional rivalries than the top quality of play).

And it wasn't stars on all 4 lines. I love the way Maltby and Draper played... but at the end of the day, they're still 3rd liners at best. We've seen with allstar teams that pure talent alone doesn't win, and that teams need guys who can play a shutdown role. Sometimes there's stars who can play that role (Datysuk, Richards, etc). However those guys are few and far between. So teams find other guys who can play that role.

There's more than enough talent for 30 teams - heck I think they could even have a couple more teams.

Not to mention we're constantly being told that the talent level is better than ever because of all the European players today. You know, the "Gretzky's '80s were so weak in talent because there weren't any European players" argument. I'd argue that the league expanded in proportion to the European talent coming in so that the average talent per team is probably about the same as it was in the '80s.

 

[RedWingsNow*]

Love it when billionaires lobby for parity to keep labor costs down... while paying off politicians to destroy parity in every other walk of life

 

[ottawah]

Why are you excluding the MLB?

MLB players union would jump all over the NHL's latest proposal if MLB made it to the MLBPA. In a second.

 

[etherialone]

I am not making the argument for more fighting. When the Wings matched up against the Avs or the Devils in the mid 90s the games were intense. Top notch players from the first line to the fourth. Hockey at its' best. Now? One good line on each team.

The Kings won the cup last year with two very good lines one good line and checking line.

 

[Jyrki]

I am not making the argument for more fighting. When the Wings matched up against the Avs or the Devils in the mid 90s the games were intense. Top notch players from the first line to the fourth. Hockey at its' best. Now? One good line on each team.

Williams - Kopitar - Brown
Carter - Richards - Penner/Gagne

lol, not sure if serious. That's an incredible top 6.

 

[RangerBoy]

MLB players union would jump all over the NHL's latest proposal if MLB made it to the MLBPA. In a second.

A salary cap?

 

[RangerBoy]

I really don't see the PA getting anywhere with a DOI or decert, not with legal precedence going against them in other leagues. The NHL is going to crush them in court if it goes that far, which it won't. The PA will end up signing a deal they could have had months ago and will have lost millions in the process. Go team Fehr!

Go look at the deal being offered to the players months ago.

 

[Riptide]

The Kings won the cup last year with two very good lines one good line and checking line.

Boston and Chicago cup teams were similar to that as well. The Ducks was more that their checking line (3rd) was just flat out amazing. Pens were just flat out lucky, and am having a hard time remembering Detroit's cup lineup.

 

[haseoke39]

A salary cap?

Probably. The salary floor makes it worthwhile. The MLB spends about 42% right now.

 

[ottawah]

MLB players union would jump all over the NHL's latest proposal if MLB made it to the MLBPA. In a second.

A salary cap?

It is because its less a cap than more a guarantee. If MLB had the NHL "salary cap last year" owners would have been obliged to top off players salaries by about 10%. You don't think those guys would easily vote themselves a ten per cent raise? In a second.

 

[RangerBoy]

“You could certainly see a drop of 30-40% in hockey-related revenues for some teams,†a league insider predicted last week, “and if that’s the case, that’s going to have a lot of franchises in trouble.â€

Unlike 2005, the road to recovery from this lockout is going to be long and hard for the NHL.

The Senators will be one of those franchises challenged in a big way to get bums back in the seats for a shortened schedule.

That looks like a good option. The Senators just can’t afford to have this season disappear completely.

http://www.ottawasun.com/2012/12/15/ottawa-senators-face-wrath-of-angry-fans

Good job Gary.

 

[etherialone]

Boston and Chicago cup teams were similar to that as well. The Ducks was more that their checking line (3rd) was just flat out amazing. Pens were just flat out lucky, and am having a hard time remembering Detroit's cup lineup.

I absolutely agree. Way more teams have won with allot more than one good line since the last lock out.

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

I cannot confirm I think that because I have no idea what you just wrote....but it doesn't really seem like I think that. If I had a thought on the topic, it would make sense. This takes some leaps of faith to support, so nope, I don't think that after all.

Almost at 950 post Fugu.....do we have a good classic rock lyric picked out for the title of the new thread yet?

 

[Fugu]

Almost at 950 post Fugu.....do we have a good classic rock lyric picked out for the title of the new thread yet?

Dazed and Confused?

When the Levee Breaks?

MLB players union would jump all over the NHL's latest proposal if MLB made it to the MLBPA. In a second.

This has nothing to do with the question asked.

 

[RangerBoy]

MLB players union would jump all over the NHL's latest proposal if MLB made it to the MLBPA. In a second.



It is because its less a cap than more a guarantee. If MLB had the NHL "salary cap last year" owners would have been obliged to top off players salaries by about 10%. You don't think those guys would easily vote themselves a ten per cent raise? In a second.

I'm trying to be nice here. You really believe the MLB players association would accept a salary cap where big market teams are capped? Go look at the amount of money being spent in Major League Baseball this winter. There is no cap. The luxury tax begins at $178M. The salary cap is so much better

 

[Morgoth Bauglir]

When the Levee Breaks?

Oooooh I like!

"Cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
Now, cryin' won't help you, prayin' won't do you no good,
When the levee breaks, mama, you got to move."

 

[molsonmuscle360]

Dazed and Confused?

When the Levee Breaks?




This has nothing to do with the question asked.

Horse With No Name?

 

[Timmy]

Dazed and Confused?

When the Levee Breaks?

The Hindenburg?

 

[MNNumbers]

I'd argue hockey was better before everyone started using the trap and allowing goalies to dress up like the Michelin Man.....nothing to do with expansion or caps.

This exactly. Hockey needs room for 2 things:

1) The players to use their skill to move the puck.

2) The puck to get past the goalie into the net. Goalies equipment should be limited in its size so that uniforms actually fit, and leg pads measure at most 10"