OT: LOCAL COVID19 - PART II... Seriously, local only

[GCK]

This is where we'll disagree. It doesn't have to be that way if we'll at least put an effort into making it not this way. (For clarity, by 'we' I mean those who are able to approve enhanced safety measures and infrastructures in schools. I'm in no way diminishing the fact that we've all been doing what we can for running on two years now.)

If you put an infected person in a 20 x 20 room with 5 others for an hour odds are they would all walk out infected unless they had been recently infected and recovered. No amount of ventilation or distancing matters. The only prevention measure that would make a difference is PROPERLY FITTED AND PROPERLY WORN respirator masks. If you wear an N95 masks properly for a few days you should see bruising where the mask was positioned. If not properly worn they might as well be surgical masks.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Is that per 100k or per million people, or just in general

Sorry my post was poorly worded.... supposed to be “8x ICU capacity per capita”

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Not sure if there is more recent data anywhere but per capita would seem that the US has roughly twice the icu beds as Canada about a year and a half ago (actually even that's not entirely accurate as the Canadian data is from 13/14 while the US data is from 18) https://a.storyblok.com/f/81332/1214x822/a240915cd7/intensive-care-beds-capacity.JPG

In general, any data I seem to be able to find seems to consistently point to roughly double the icu capacity per 100k for the US over Canada.

Thanks, my friend was clearly wrong. As I had noted I didn’t verify his claim. He’s a bit of a jackass so it doesn’t surprise me that he was wrong.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

If you put an infected person in a 20 x 20 room with 5 others for an hour odds are they would all walk out infected unless they had been recently infected and recovered. No amount of ventilation or distancing matters. The only prevention measure that would make a difference is PROPERLY FITTED AND PROPERLY WORN respirator masks. If you wear an N95 masks properly for a few days you should see bruising where the mask was positioned. If not properly worn they might as well be surgical masks.

So what you're saying is that not everyone NEEDS to catch this virus, there are steps that can be taken to actively mitigate, and those steps aren't currently being taken. Great. We agree!

 

[GCK]

So what you're saying is that not everyone NEEDS to catch this virus, there are steps that can be taken to actively mitigate, and those steps aren't currently being taken. Great. We agree!

Nope, everyone one will get it but the good news is most won’t even know it if healthy and vaccinated.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

You "blame it all on the unvaxxed" people are embarrassingly ignorant.

I would be interested to see the details of the Ontario model that has them projecting so many hospitalizations, specifically to see how they are modelling vaccinated vs unvaccinated rates.

And with that info, it’d be interesting to know what the difference would be in the projection if we were at 100% vaccination.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

fire any teacher who is unvaxxed

Lol.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

You "blame it all on the unvaxxed" people are embarrassingly ignorant.

It's a simple cop out that is used

 

[GCK]

Lol.

Why lol. If a teacher is uneducated enough not to get Vaxxed and it is a reasonable work requirement they should be fired.

 

[Stylizer1]

Why lol. If a teacher is uneducated enough not to get Vaxxed and it is a reasonable work requirement they should be fired.

lol.

 

[Caeldan]

Why lol. If a teacher is uneducated enough not to get Vaxxed and it is a reasonable work requirement they should be fired.

Especially if they were teaching a cohort that was unable to be vaccinated at the start of the school year. That's just putting students at unnecessary risk.

 

[God Says No]

It's a simple cop out that is used

Not really. Why the lockdowns and limitations? To not overwhelm the hospitals. Who is the most frequently admitted to the hospital due to COVID? The unvaccinated, who make up the bulk of the patients. Ergo, if more people were vaccinated, the hospitals wouldn't be overwhelmed and we wouldn't have these measures. I will blame these morons on this. They are the main reason for these lockdowns. It's ironic that they are fighting masks, vaccines, lockdowns, freedoms when a simple jab would provide what they are raging against.

 

[gnr25]

Both English school boards in Ottawa require staff to be vaccinated. There may have been an extension on getting the second dose and that is coming up soon.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I would be interested to see the details of the Ontario model that has them projecting so many hospitalizations, specifically to see how they are modelling vaccinated vs unvaccinated rates.

And with that info, it’d be interesting to know what the difference would be in the projection if we were at 100% vaccination.

Even better would be to see the charts for per capita, hospitalizations of vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

It's a simple cop out that is used

It's not a cop-out. If you are unvaxxed, at this point, with all the data we've seen, and not allergic to the vaccine, you are the biggest problem.

You're basically saying people intentionally setting forest fires should be ignored in our battle against forest fires.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

It's not a cop-out. If you are unvaxxed, at this point, with all the data we've seen, and not allergic to the vaccine, you are the biggest problem.

You're basically saying people intentionally setting forest fires should be ignored in our battle against forest fires.

Please tell me how restaurants and gyms (not to mention other venues) which require proof of vaccination (2 doses), social distancing and masks should be shutdown when the unvaxxed are barred from entering?

 

[The Lewler]

No amount of screaming is going to change things at this point. The die is cast in Ottawa and elsewhere.

The restrictions will not really blunt this wave, the transmission numbers show basically any human interaction is going to springboard it onwards.

The hospital system has been allowed to atrophy to this point by successive governments, and these idiots put the cherry on top by capping nurses pay at the worst possible time and then doubling down.

The ICU system will bend and not break due to COVID, because we will have shoved of all the other people needing care to die.

"We might need to implement triage is this keeps up! COVID! "

Yeah the triaging is already occuring over the phone. Your surgery is cancelled. I guess you just die.

But I don't see those memes on r/Ontario on reddit.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the health care system most Canadians lionize as part of their national identity is a mirage. Bring on the reckoning.

 

[Caeldan]

Please tell me how restaurants and gyms (not to mention other venues) which require proof of vaccination (2 doses), social distancing and masks should be shutdown when the unvaxxed are barred from entering?

Because those vaccinated individuals may have contact with unvaccinated individuals outside of the setting.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

People are going flaky with all this. Just another symptom of the world we live in these days.

 

[Micklebot]

Please tell me how restaurants and gyms (not to mention other venues) which require proof of vaccination (2 doses), social distancing and masks should be shutdown when the unvaxxed are barred from entering?

my understanding of the logic is shutting down these venues is about reducing spread, Omicron in particular appears to have little issue infecting vaccinated folks, but thankfully the severity is reduced.

We shut down vectors for transmission, not to directly protect the people that go there, but to protect the population as a whole by reducing total cases and total community spread. The problem is the fully vaccinated guy going to the gym can still catch Covid, and infect his family (vacinnated or not) who can then as a group go out and infect the unvacinated guy in line at the grocery store, the healthcare provider he rides the bus with, the LTC worker who shops at the same store, and so on.

Bringing it back to how Unvaccinated might be the reason for these lockdowns, if we are trying to protect ICU capacity, then reducing spread seems to be the only way to impact it if unvaccinated folks are the ones who are predominantly occupying those spots.

 

[GCK]

Even better would be to see the charts for per capita, hospitalizations of vaccinated vs unvaccinated.

And length of stay for those cohorts.

 

[Micklebot]

And length of stay for those cohorts.

I feel like the length of stay in ICU would be inverse to your age; with the elderly being less likely to hold on for as long or recover. I feel like I may have heard someone who ought to know suggest as much, but can't recall.

 

[GCK]

I feel like the length of stay in ICU would be inverse to your age; with the elderly being less likely to hold on for as long or recover. I feel like I may have heard someone who ought to know suggest as much, but can't recall.

The ICUs aren’t that big a problem. It seems that the variant is causing people to need oxygen but not severe disease and mechanical ventilation amongst the vaccinated. I heard a University Health Network doctor today saying most variant ICU cases are amongst people 25-55 who are unvaccinated. He says the elderly have been staying out of ICU due to the extremely high rate of vaccination.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

Please tell me how restaurants and gyms (not to mention other venues) which require proof of vaccination (2 doses), social distancing and masks should be shutdown when the unvaxxed are barred from entering?

Because transmission is still occuring in those places. And eventually one of those people will transmit to an unvaccinated person who then has a much, much, much, much, much higher chance of landing in the hospital.

 

[Micklebot]

The ICUs aren’t that big a problem. It seems that the variant is causing people to need oxygen but not severe disease and mechanical ventilation amongst the vaccinated. I heard a University Health Network doctor today saying most variant ICU cases are amongst people 25-55 who are unvaccinated. He says the elderly have been staying out of ICU due to the extremely high rate of vaccination.

Yeah, that tracks; 60+ is vaccinated at something around 97%, from 20-59 is 85-90%, and represents over half the provinces population, so if 1 out of 10 cases among that demographic is unvaccinated I can imagine their taking up a lot of the ICU beds.