Little outscores Brule....so who's better???

Discussion in 'NHL Draft - Prospects' started by HabLover, Mar 18, 2004.

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  1. HabLover

    HabLover Registered User

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    Both are the same size, similar ppg average, but Little outscores Brule 34 to 25!

    I know Brule has had all the press and everything, but does Little deserve to be at the same level now?? Can anyone compare these two forwards and give us some insight?? I've seen Brule play on numerous occasions and he is no doubt a special talent. The only thing I don't like about Brule is his skating style. He skates kind of goofy, but it definitely is deceiving.

    So who is the better '87 born forward and who will go higher in next years draft?
     
  2. MHJS

    MHJS Registered User

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    Little is 2006
     
  3. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    Little is also third on his team in plus/minus at plus 22. This is excellent for a 16 year old whereas Brule's is average although this is very good for a 17 year old rookie. That being said a lot of people have no faith in plus/minus because they really don't understand it.
     
  4. LaLaLaprise

    LaLaLaprise lalalaprise -twitter

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    You over use +/-

    It doesnt mean anything.
     
  5. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    You under use your brain. Plus/minus has elements of random chance but no more than goals and assists over time... of course team factors have to be considered (but linemates no more than other stats). Of course all that "considering" requires more effort than staring at goals/assists. You can "explain away" the differences in plus/minus between Brule and Little. I can't because I haven't seen them play (Brule highlights aside). However I "need" at least a plausible explanation to discount this stat (not just "it doesn't mean anything") and more explanation to convince me that Brule is that much better still. I understand Brule has some outstanding attributes. Why are they not reflected in this stat? If Brule is consistantly less lucky than Little over a season that is a possible but not plausible explanation.

    Possible explanations include; Brule has weak linemates, or Brule missed some games against extremely weak teams etc. etc. More plausible explanations include things like; Brule always plays a checking role and his offensive stats are a huge plus. So what is it. I'm not anti-Brule, I'm actually am interested.
     
  6. LaLaLaprise

    LaLaLaprise lalalaprise -twitter

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    +/- is the only thing you ever bring up when discussing players.

    It doesnt mean anything when you compare 2 players on 2 different teams.

    A player can have a -3 one game and still play solid defense. If his team sucks or his goalie is allowing weak goals.

    Just because you have a good +/- doesnt mean you are good defensivly. You always bring up Crosby's +/- and how it is very good. Which it is. Now i am a big Crosby fan but the guy needs a lot of work defensivly and one of the main reasons his +/- is so high is because the way he fills the net with goals, not making amazing defensive plays.
     
  7. Crosbyfan

    Crosbyfan Registered User

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    Not totally disagreeing but I've seen Sid pull "highlight" defensive plays. If you are saying Sids offense is driving his plus/minus then great, not only are you correct, but you realize that plus/minus is not just a defensive stat (You'd be surprised how some people think that).

    A player can have a - 3 and still play a great defensive game but it is not common and his team mates "generally" do poorly in plus/minus as well in those games. The plus/minus is viewed as a defensive stat mainly to offset the more obvious goals/assists/points for offence. It is unfortunate that both the plus and minus are not normally available separately and that even strength empty net goals are included but the fact remains that plus/minus is a good indicator of two way play, especially OVER A SEASON and when compared within a team since many variables remain the same (same goalies etc).

    Comparing players on different teams is also of value if the teams have similar plus/minus. Otherwise you have to be cautious.

    Often the player in the league with the highest plus/minus is the best "workhorse" defenceman on the leagues best team. Less obviously the player in the league with the "worst" plus/minus is often the BEST "workhorse" defenceman on the leagues worst team. I would agree that it would be unfair to compare the two directly on plus/minus alone. In fact on the worst teams plus/minus is more indicative of icetime than two way play.

    Crosby's plus/minus is HUGE whether you take it superficially or look at it closer. His age/size and offensive stats suggest a "Run 'n Gun" player on a "Run 'n Gun" team in a "Run 'n Gun" league. His exceptional plus/minus on a "marginally plus" team suggests otherwise. If you polled a hundred scouts at the start of the season and told them his offensive numbers and team stats and asked them to predict his plus/minus (not knowing his linemates stats) few would have guessed half his plus/minus. If he played for Gatineau few would have guessed it would be less than it was.

    Brule's plus/minus reads neutral which is still very good for a rookie on an "average" team.
    Littles plus/minus reads very positive on a "somewhat" plus team.

    If you compare offensive stats which are roughly equal and are a subject of this thread along with "who is better" then the plus/minus is pertinent as well. Other factors may overwhelm them. If so, what are they? If not, then '06 Little is looking pretty good against '05 Brule...
     
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