Lidstrom says Lemieux was the best he played against

[Luigi Lemieux]

I see it similar to how Lidstrom describes it. Mario had better individual talent. He was much bigger, faster and stronger than Wayne. Even Wayne admitted in an interview that I saw once that Mario had more pure hockey talent than him. Wayne obviously had tremendous talent too but the thing that always made him special to me was his hockey IQ. Wayne was like Einstein on skates.

I think in Lidstrom's case it was more about timing. He was a rookie in 91-92 and by then Lemieux was clearly the best player in the world, and had been for a few years. Lidstrom might have had a different answer if he played against prime Gretzky.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

What Mario did with such an inferior roster was incredible.

For example in '85, Mario had 141 points playing with garbage teammates.

He had a good player in Mike Bullard, but they only played together on the PP.

Here is the rest of the players, Moe Mantha, Terry Ruskowski, Doug Shedden, John Chabot, Doug Bodger, Dave Hannan, Willy Lidstrom, Mike Blaisdell, it gets much worse from there.

That is more impressive to me than what Gretz putting up 200 point season on a hall of fame laden dynasty roster.

For me Mario > Wayne.

Best player ever. That is taking nothing away from Gretz, who was incredible, but I think Mario was the better player.

Worth mentioning that even though Gretzky had some great teammates, when he scored his points like the 212 in '81-'82, he did outproduce his closest teammate by like...107 points.

That's 107 points.

 

[Tweed]

I mean Gretzky's last >100 point season was in Lidstrom's rookie season. So it's not like he saw Gretzky in his prime.

That's okay because it's not like he ever saw a healthy Lemieux either. Lol.

Lidstrom clearly isnt qualified to speak on such matters as Gretzky vs Lemieux. Let's ask Ray Bourque what he thinks!

 

[td_ice]

Seeing Denis Potvin's name in this thread reminded me of watching him play against Mario.

Even though it was the last four years of his great career, Potvin was stellar against Mario. It was Mario's first four years, (in which he had his speed, which was deceptively excellent) and Mario was just abusing Dmen in the league. But I remember, Mario could not solve Denis Potvin at all. He was best dmen I have ever seen defending Mario.

 

[Fordy]

Worth mentioning that even though Gretzky had some great teammates, when he scored his points like the 212 in '81-'82, he did outproduce his closest teammate by like...107 points.

That's 107 points.

well i guess he didn't help his teammates as much as people think

 

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

"Obviously." - Mario Lemieux

(dunno if he still does it but he used to say that a lot)

I don't think I've seen him since the arena deal but the obviously's were flowing freely.

 

[BrunoPuntzJones]

That's okay because it's not like he ever saw a healthy Lemieux either. Lol.

Lidstrom clearly isnt qualified to speak on such matters as Gretzky vs Lemieux. Let's ask Ray Bourque what he thinks!

I wanna hear from Rick Zombo.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

Worth mentioning that even though Gretzky had some great teammates, when he scored his points like the 212 in '81-'82, he did outproduce his closest teammate by like...107 points.

That's 107 points.

lol...didn't believe you, but its true and 7 players on that team scored at 1.00 ppg or better

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

lol...didn't believe you, but its true and 7 players on that team scored at 1.00 ppg or better

I mean, I'm not even a Gretzky fan. Like most faces of a league who don't play for your team, they get shoved down your throat to the point where you actively look for reasons to bring down the guy and look for alternatives. I rooted for the Jets for crying out loud, so I have a lot of reasons to hate him. But there's really no normalizing Gretzky's production.

The ****in guy's best teammate was awesome and scored 105 points, but Gretzky literally doubled it and then some. That's bat-**** crazy and a half.

 

[Darth Vitale]

Gretzky was on performance enhancing drugs; it's the only explanation. I bet if he smoked and ate burgers 4x a day like Mario he'd drop five spots on the points list. Marios is the ZE BEST EVAH! Lidstrom Approved ™.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDo]

I mean, I'm not even a Gretzky fan. Like most faces of a league who don't play for your team, they get shoved down your throat to the point where you actively look for reasons to bring down the guy and look for alternatives. I rooted for the Jets for crying out loud, so I have a lot of reasons to hate him. But there's really no normalizing Gretzky's production.

The ****in guy's best teammate was awesome and scored 105 points, but Gretzky literally doubled it and then some. That's bat-**** crazy and a half.

It is an amazing statistic that I will be dropping in conversation.

 

[Shady Machine]

The perfect human is now alright in my book.

 

[Jacob]

Watch this 27 minute condensed Detroit - Pittsburgh game from 1997 if you get a chance. The star power is ridiculous. Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, etc all on the same sheet of ice. Not to mention it was a great game, one I remember watching live. Lemieux definitely gets Lidstrom pretty good a few times in this one.

Nice find. Fedorov was fun to watch. That Penguins blueline, not so much.

 

[Coastal Kev]

Watch this 27 minute condensed Detroit - Pittsburgh game from 1997 if you get a chance. The star power is ridiculous. Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, etc all on the same sheet of ice. Not to mention it was a great game, one I remember watching live. Lemieux definitely gets Lidstrom pretty good a few times in this one.

The thing that stood out for me is there is actual net to shoot at in this video. Amazing that hockey hasn't addressed this issue when their is now 40% less net available when squared up on a goalie.

 

[#66]

Seeing Denis Potvin's name in this thread reminded me of watching him play against Mario.

Even though it was the last four years of his great career, Potvin was stellar against Mario. It was Mario's first four years, (in which he had his speed, which was deceptively excellent) and Mario was just abusing Dmen in the league. But I remember, Mario could not solve Denis Potvin at all. He was best dmen I have ever seen defending Mario.

I've always ranked Potvin as the best all around player I've ever seen. Bobby Orr being called great defensively is a little bit of glamorizing.

Even when he was having trouble with a player one on one. He would lure that player into bad ice and use his passing. Then once that player backed off he would use his shot. He had so many weapons it was crazy.

I never thought he got his due as a captain. I remember him fighting with Goulet to stick up for Jimmy Johnson and that 91 finals he went nose to nose with Tinordi to stick up for Phil Bourque.... and Tinordi was one of the best non goon fighters I've ever seen. You put on that Pens jersey... Mario had your back. You always hear the Mario bashers come out and say he doesn't do enough for the NHL... I don't think that's his personality. There's no questioning what he's done for the Pens and Pittsburgh.

 

[The Dopefish]

Beast mode

 

[Krom]

A few years ago, I heard someone (maybe a former coach?) on NHL radio say that Lemieux was the 2nd best player of all-time behind Orr. I think he had Gretzky 4th.

How did he come to that? He said if you could clone that player and put him at every position except goalie, whose team would be best? He reasoned that a team of 5 Orrs would be the best, followed by 5 Lemiuex's.

Howe was up there too. It's a different way of looking at it that I found interesting.

 

[Crosbyfan]

If they called that by the book the guy would still be in the box, goal or not.

The best part is when he raises his arm in the air, like he's riding a bull at the Stampede.

 

[plaidchuck]

Lol lalime and vernon.. not exactly world beating goalies there.

 

[lastcupever75]

I count 4 minor penalties (2 hooks, and 2 holdings) on that play. NHL hasn't changed a bit.

The point is that Mario was unstoppable. You couldn't just foul him because he was so big that he skated right through it. You just aren't going to intimidate him either.

obstruction on bodger(?) too, taking the other D man out

 

[Pens1566]

And Lidstrom would be correct.

 

[gordie]

Lidstrom never played against Gretzky during prime years in the 1980's. Then it might have been real hard to pick one.

 

[Ugene Magic]

I just want to state there are at least 3/4 penalties in that sequence.

 

[Whale Mingo]

Watch this 27 minute condensed Detroit - Pittsburgh game from 1997 if you get a chance. The star power is ridiculous. Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, etc all on the same sheet of ice. Not to mention it was a great game, one I remember watching live. Lemieux definitely gets Lidstrom pretty good a few times in this one.

The above bolded is just plain sick when you pause to think about it. The salary cap era will stand in the way of ever seeing something like that again, but damn, that makes me remember how great things really were.

I do remember seeing Lemieux V Gretzky a few times live and thinking "this is something you better enjoy". I had no idea how true that thought process was.

I'd pay good money to see things that you just won't ever get to see again, sadly:

Clemente play
Lemieux and Jagr together circa 91-93
The Steel Curtain Defense
The original members of Gun's N Roses tour together
The 1980 Olympics US v Russia

That's just a start, I'm sure I could think of several more. I was fortunate to see all those things live with the exception of the Olympic team and will forever be grateful for it.

 

[useless]

Watch this 27 minute condensed Detroit - Pittsburgh game from 1997 if you get a chance. The star power is ridiculous. Lemieux, Jagr, Francis, Yzerman, Fedorov, Lidstrom, etc all on the same sheet of ice. Not to mention it was a great game, one I remember watching live. Lemieux definitely gets Lidstrom pretty good a few times in this one.

I think the Pens had Nedved and Naslund too that year.