Player Discussion Lias Andersson: Part II

[OrlandK]

Rangers have a huge hole at 2 C
If youre not going to give the chance at someone you drafted 7th overall well,,,thats just not smart

This comment makes no sense. We can argue that Lias deserves a shot at 2C because of his play and the alternatives. I presume the coach sees something in Howden to give him the shot over Lias. It is clear to me that Lias is not up to 2C at this juncture, as the coach seems to think too, but again someone can certainly think otherwise.

What makes no sense though is to say he deserves 2C because he was drafted 7th. The blunder picking him 7th is a spent cost. What needs to happen now is to bring LA along based on what's best for him based on his skill set, not his draft position. Lias simply doesn't skate well enough to keep up with Kreider and Kappo. Howden does skate well enough but still lacks the other skills needed to be a 2C. The real problem is that the Rangers are very weak at center past Mika, regardless.

 

[TheDirtyH]

3 shots in 3 games is hardly pushing the coaches to elevate you. Brendan Smith has 3 shots as well plus a post. And he plays half his mind on the PK.


If you aren’t getting mins because the coach doesn’t think you’ve earned more, doing nothing is not going to change his mind. Go get the puck and generate some offense. He won’t because he’s not capable of doing that consistently at this level. He’s going to be a bottom 6 guy because of that lack of ability. So he’s getting bottom 6 mins. Buchnevich on the other hand got glued to the 4th line then worked his way to the third line next to Howden produced there then moved up to the top 6 because he’s a top 6 talent that needed to show it. He did.

Lias needs to show that he’s a top 6 talent. I don’t think he is but that’s my opinion. It’s up to him to go prove it. They aren’t going to hand him top 6 mins when he isn’t taking advantage of playing against 4th lines and third d pairings.

So we're circling...

In games last season when Buchnevich played less than 11 mins his stat line was:
8 GP, 0 G, 1 A, 1P, -4, 5 S.

For Brett Howden the line was:
9 GP, 0 G, 2 A, 2P, -4, 8 S.

 

[Kovalev27]

So we're circling...

In games last season when Buchnevich played less than 11 mins his stat line was:
8 GP, 0 G, 1 A, 1P, -4, 5 S.

For Brett Howden the line was:
9 GP, 0 G, 2 A, 2P, -4, 8 S.

stats can do that for you when you need them too. If you watched the games there’s no one here that will disagree that Buchnevich generated offense and continued to gain more mins as he went along. He was bad and got demoted and worked his way back From the 4th line up.

If Lias was pointless and making plays all over the ice I wouldn’t care. He’d prove he was deserving of more offensive opportunities. That’s not the case never has been with him.

 

[TheDirtyH]

stats can do that for you when you need them too. If you watched the games there’s no one here that will disagree that Buchnevich generated offense and continued to gain more mins as he went along. He was bad and got demoted and worked his way back From the 4th line up.

If Lias was pointless and making plays all over the ice I wouldn’t care. He’d prove he was deserving of more offensive opportunities. That’s not the case never has been with him.

It might be the case that you have many users blocked, but this thread is literally full of posters who are saying that based on what they've been watching Lias deserves more minutes.

In fact, I know you have seen this (presently) popular opinion because you cited Lias's stat line as evidence for his obvious failure to earn more opportunity.

Now you've rerouted us back to the beginning where stats don't tell the story, watching does.

And so I'll circle back too:

Certainly? Seems like there's a pretty large number of people who've watched every game and every preseason game who have come to the opposite conclusion.

But if the point is: certainly Quinn judges him not to have done enough because he has not moved him up, then that's hardly a conclusion anyone needed help getting to.

Point is, it's not obvious that Lias is failing to overperform his usage or show more positives than his competition has this season. The sheer volume of posters who don't agree with his usage and are confused not to see him moved up should make that perfectly clear.

What is obvious is that Quinn does not feel Lias has earned more icetime. The point is that none of us needed clarity on that point. Whether you agree or disagree it's a very obvious fact.

 

[bbny]

stats can do that for you when you need them too. If you watched the games there’s no one here that will disagree that Buchnevich generated offense and continued to gain more mins as he went along. He was bad and got demoted and worked his way back From the 4th line up.

If Lias was pointless and making plays all over the ice I wouldn’t care. He’d prove he was deserving of more offensive opportunities. That’s not the case never has been with him.

IIRC it wasn't offense that got Buchnevich back into Quinn's good graces. It was having a higher compete level when battling for pucks. Basically he just needed to show he cared about trying to win possession of the puck anywhere on the ice. This is a valid reason to cut a young player's minutes so that they learn that effort is required on every shift because it can be the difference between winning and losing. I haven't seen this as being a problem with Lias Andersson in the preseason or in his limited minutes on the ice during the first 3 games. I've seen him win puck battles and I've seen him bust his butt to loose pucks. I'm far less clear about why Andersson's playing time remains so low, than when Buchnevich's playing time was cut significantly last year.

 

[Inferno]

I don't really have a problem with people fighting for lias to get more ice time than years before because his play isn't noticeably worse than guys you wanna sit... My whole contention is that nobody has looked great... So it's hard for me to get worked up about this disagreement in either direction... I see both positions and am personally leaning towards giving him more ice time with better linemates just to see... But totally agree with the fact that he hasn't really played well enough to deserve pushing guys down... It's more that other guys above are playing worse...

 

[Kovalev27]

It might be the case that you have many users blocked, but this thread is literally full of posters who are saying that based on what they've been watching Lias deserves more minutes.

In fact, I know you have seen this (presently) popular opinion because you cited Lias's stat line as evidence for his obvious failure to earn more opportunity.

Now you've rerouted us back to the beginning where stats don't tell the story, watching does.

And so I'll circle back too:



Point is, it's not obvious that Lias is failing to overperform his usage or show more positives than his competition has this season. The sheer volume of posters who don't agree with his usage and are confused not to see him moved up should make that perfectly clear.

What is obvious is that Quinn does not feel Lias has earned more icetime. The point is that none of us needed clarity on that point. Whether you agree or disagree it's a very obvious fact.

i don’t block anyone

I also see tons of people telling me that Lias has been good. I don’t see it. They’ve been telling me this for years. I don’t see it.

what I do see is the coaching staff probably agrees with me which is why they don’t put him in many offensive spots.

 

[Kovalev27]

IIRC it wasn't offense that got Buchnevich back into Quinn's good graces. It was having a higher compete level when battling for pucks. Basically he just needed to show he cared about trying to win possession of the puck anywhere on the ice. This is a valid reason to cut a young player's minutes so that they learn that effort is required on every shift because it can be the difference between winning and losing. I haven't seen this as being a problem with Lias Andersson in the preseason or in his limited minutes on the ice during the first 3 games. I've seen him win puck battles and I've seen him bust his butt to loose pucks. I'm far less clear about why Andersson's playing time remains so low, than when Buchnevich's playing time was cut significantly last year.

His compete level lead to offensive opportunities. Do you guys not remember that? Then he started producing on lower lines. Now he’s been given this chance. Because if that.

Lias has not produced at all. He had one chance when the puck ended up on his stick in the slot all alone and he put it right into smiths pads. Quinn said it clearly he’d give Howden or Lias the opportunity if their play warranted it.

basically you guys want to give a guy a top 6 spot when he’s literally done nothing ever to show he should be there.

 

[OrlandK]

Not only has Lias not done anything to earn the 2C but he doesn't appear to have the skill set - skating or the hands - to succeed there. Many complain that he is held to an unreasonable standard as a #7 pick. But is there any reason that so many buy into the Lias hype other than the fact that he was a number 7 pick and the expectations that went with it? Imagine if he was a late first round pick at best, as he likely would be if there was a redo, would anyone lobby for the 2c for him based on his performance to date?

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

Not only has Lias not done anything to earn the 2C but he doesn't appear to have the skill set - skating or the hands - to succeed there. Many complain that he is held to an unreasonable standard as a #7 pick. But is there any reason that so many buy into the Lias hype other than the fact that he was a number 7 pick and the expectations that went with it? Imagine if he was a late first round pick at best, as he likely would be if there was a redo, would anyone lobby for the 2c for him based on his performance to date?

Yes

 

[badi]

This comment makes no sense. We can argue that Lias deserves a shot at 2C because of his play and the alternatives. I presume the coach sees something in Howden to give him the shot over Lias. It is clear to me that Lias is not up to 2C at this juncture, as the coach seems to think too, but again someone can certainly think otherwise.

What makes no sense though is to say he deserves 2C because he was drafted 7th. The blunder picking him 7th is a spent cost. What needs to happen now is to bring LA along based on what's best for him based on his skill set, not his draft position. Lias simply doesn't skate well enough to keep up with Kreider and Kappo. Howden does skate well enough but still lacks the other skills needed to be a 2C. The real problem is that the Rangers are very weak at center past Mika, regardless.

Never said it needed to be handed to him ,,,,
Just try him , the alternative on that roster is not there

 

[JimmyG89]

His compete level lead to offensive opportunities. Do you guys not remember that? Then he started producing on lower lines. Now he’s been given this chance. Because if that.

Lias has not produced at all. He had one chance when the puck ended up on his stick in the slot all alone and he put it right into smiths pads. Quinn said it clearly he’d give Howden or Lias the opportunity if their play warranted it.

basically you guys want to give a guy a top 6 spot when he’s literally done nothing ever to show he should be there.

Yes, and we know how good the track record of NHL coaches is and knowing if players deserve to move up a lineup or even being promoted. That's why they never get fired or players go to another team and get a chance a flourish.

 

[redwhiteandblue]

I can’t tell what thread I wanna stay out of more... this or the Kravtsov thread.

 

[Leetch3]

I can’t tell what thread I wanna stay out of more... this or the Kravtsov thread.

the answer is C all of the threads

 

[aufheben]

RE: not being able to contribute on the 4th line: Lias almost scored a huge goal against Edmonton. He'll get more chances just like that—net front—and sink them. He has the worst PDO on the team at 80.0. In fact, the only players with a PDO below 95.0 are Howden, Staal, Fast, and DeAngelo (can't say Staal and DeAngelo's aren't deserved atm.) Obviously he'd get even more chances with more ice-time and better players, but he'll pot a few sooner rather than later. We'll see what happens then.

EV PDO 80.0 (18th)
Off. Zone Faceoffs 2 (18th)
4 Takeaways (1st)
0 Giveaways (T-1st)

 

[Inferno]

The3 of the last 4 stats are cumulative stats right...so of course a guy who isn't playing a ton would rank high in giveaways or low in offensive zone faceoffs if he's not playing a lot

Also that's makes the takeaways stat that much more impressive...and almost hard to believe considering Mika and panarin seem to have 4 a game each...

 

[Edge]

So if Zibanejad passed to Andersson, instead of going for the hat trick, and he has 1 goal in 3 games thus far, me thinks no one disputes the desire to see how he does as a second line center.

 

[UnSandvich]

So if Zibanejad passed to Andersson, instead of going for the hat trick, and he has 1 goal in 3 games thus far, me thinks no one disputes the desire to see how he does as a second line center.

And, to be clear, unless Lias pulls a Patrik Stefan, that is almost certainly a goal there for him

 

[LokiDog]

The3 of the last 4 stats are cumulative stats right...so of course a guy who isn't playing a ton would rank high in giveaways or low in offensive zone faceoffs if he's not playing a lot

Also that's makes the takeaways stat that much more impressive...and almost hard to believe considering Mika and panarin seem to have 4 a game each...

Even as a cumulative stat having started only two shifts in the offensive zone through three games has relevance to the “why doesn’t he show some offense” line of questioning. Zero giveaways with some of the least ice time may be a bit less impressive, but he’s being responsible with the puck at least, and based on zone starts, that’s mostly in the D zone.

 

[True Blue]

So if Zibanejad passed to Andersson, instead of going for the hat trick, and he has 1 goal in 3 games thus far, me thinks no one disputes the desire to see how he does as a second line center.

Couldn't agree more. Andersson has looked much more engaged than either Strome or Howden. I think that he out performed them in camp and deserved a better fate than the 4th line. Nothing has happened to change my mind.

 

[haveandare]

Couldn't agree more. Andersson has looked much more engaged than either Strome or Howden. I think that he out performed them in camp and deserved a better fate than the 4th line. Nothing has happened to change my mind.

Agreed. All the talk about what he’s shown to suggest he can be 2C ignores that nobody has shown enough to suggest they can do it. We are looking for the least bad option. He’s the only one we haven’t seen in that spot yet. Let’s see how he looks there.

 

[Edge]

Agreed. All the talk about what he’s shown to suggest he can be 2C ignores that nobody has shown enough to suggest they can do it. We are looking for the least bad option. He’s the only one we haven’t seen in that spot yet. Let’s see how he looks there.

While I'm not someone who disagrees with Quinn on a regular basis, at this point I want SEE what Andersson can do. I think he's at least earned a look.

 

[OrlandK]

Agreed. All the talk about what he’s shown to suggest he can be 2C ignores that nobody has shown enough to suggest they can do it. We are looking for the least bad option. He’s the only one we haven’t seen in that spot yet. Let’s see how he looks there.

That's fine but there is a downside to trying Lias there. He will likely fail. He doesn't have the speed to skate with Kreider and Kakko nor has he shown any other particular talent to likely succeed as a 2C. After such a tough start to his career he seems to have shown enough to warrant playing in the bottom 6 and succeed. He had a good camp and should settle into a role he is suited for, and can have success in.

The reality is the Rangers have no one who has the talent to be a 2C other than Chytil, if he can get it together at Hartford. Trying different guys there seems logical but they will almost all fail. The question then is what did that experiment result in. In Strome's case little is lost - he is the best alternative and the line will be disadvantaged until a true 2c emerges; in the meantime he may be in the 40 point-ish range, and the ability to set up his wingers (some). In Howden's case he has the speed to play with them but doesn't seem to have the other skills needed; unclear what he really is and where he can establish himself for his career going forward. In the case of Lias he will likely experience failure again, which will be another set back. His most likely success is as a 3rd line 2 way grinder; if he's more than that it will become apparent over time, not by force feeding him a role he will likely fail in.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I mean I'd be happily surprised just to see him given a look at 3C at this point

 

[GeorgeKaplan]

The ‘Andersson has no skill/talent’ meme sucks