Pre-Game Talk: Leafs vs Montreal vs Ottawa Rookie Tournament Thread

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

1) Its not hate, its raising concerns... 2) people on here seem to think he's a Kapanen/Dermott/Grundstrom level of prospect right now. He isn't. Thats all.

What level prospect do you think he is?

 

[bobermay]

What level prospect do you think he is?

I'd put him in the mix with:
Timashov, Dzierkals, Johnsson, Nielsen, behind guys like Grundstrom and Korshkov.

 

[Menzinger]

Bracco has shown at every level he can produce at 5v5. He does perfectly fine at 5v5. Now, from my several viewings the past couple years, his offensive game is becoming... for a lack of a better term, mature. He doesn't rely on dangling through offences. He uses his vision and passing ability to set players up for tap-ins.

Listen, if people want to criticize Bracco, that is fine. He needs work on everything to do with defense. His first step needs to get quicker. He needs to continue to add muscle. However, saying he can't play 5v5 is wrong. Plain and Simple. Bracco has always had the offensive skills of a top 10 draft pick. The issue always was his commitment to the defensive game, and his size.

Like, I'm sorry, I HATE discrediting opinions, but this "criticism" is objectively wrong. Does he make a powerplay more dangerous? 100%. Is that where all his offense comes from? Not even close.

Yeah, the criticism that suddenly Bracco isn't capable of playing well at 5v5 is definitely an odd one. hasnt' been an issue his entire career so far.

I like guys like Grundstrom too, but I don't necessarily see how folks can view him as a tier above Bracco at present. Other than the fact they enjoy his playing style more.

 

[Lightsol]

1) Its not hate, its raising concerns... 2) people on here seem to think he's a Kapanen/Dermott/Grundstrom level of prospect right now. He isn't. Thats all.

You don't REPEATEDLY POST THE SAME ******** just to "raise concerns". It's clear there's something about him you plain don't like, because you intentionally ignore when he makes good plays in favor of complaining either about what you perceive as bad plays or claiming he's 100% invisible.

And no one, absolutely no one, is putting him on the Kapanen/Dermott level. In fact, I'd say YOU need to take a step back when it comes to Grundstrom, because he too needs a bit of work before he's at that level...

 

[v-man]

Didnt they have it so you had to purchase all 3 games to get tickets?
That would certainly cut down on sales if that were the case.

For a while, yes. They offered single game tickets starting two days before the tournament. I assumed the other half of thearena was reserved for season ticket holders, but that was obviously not the case.

 

[saltming]

I'd put him in the mix with:
Timashov, Dzierkals, Johnsson, Nielsen, behind guys like Grundstrom and Korshkov.

Johnsson should be in the Grundstrom tier.

 

[bobermay]

You don't REPEATEDLY POST THE SAME ******** just to "raise concerns". It's clear there's something about him you plain don't like, because you intentionally ignore when he makes good plays in favor of complaining either about what you perceive as bad plays or claiming he's 100% invisible.

And no one, absolutely no one, is putting him on the Kapanen/Dermott level. In fact, I'd say YOU need to take a step back when it comes to Grundstrom, because he too needs a bit of work before he's at that level...

Woah, take it easy buddy... we're all on the same side here. All you're doing right now is making assumptions about me and my views.

You think I'm intentionally ignoring good plays?? I also don't seek out bad plays either... And where have I said he's 100% invisible...? Really...?

You can think what you want, but I try to watch hockey without my "Leafs-coloured glasses"... I've made it clear that I do think Bracco is highly skilled with good edgework and vision... This is very evident when he has lots of room to play around with. Where I am concerned is that I have yet to see plus strength, speed, motor/drive, defensive abilities in Bracco's play... This will make him a lot less effective on 5v5 at the pro level. For an under-average sized player, he NEEDS to have most of these skills to be an effective NHLer. There have been plenty of skilled players with good edgework and vision to not even come close to the NHL, so when I've been bringing up my concerns, all I'm saying is people need to hamper expectations.

What exactly am I saying wrong here...?

At the end of the day, I'd probably list Bracco as a #10-12 prospect in our system... nothing wrong with that, is there?

What I find most anoying is that some people automatically call me a "hater" simply because I have different opinions... Not only in hockey talk, but I see this all the time in social/political discussions... Just because you have a differing opinions doesn't make the other person 'evil' or a 'hater'...

 

[Trapper]

Woah, take it easy buddy... we're all on the same side here. All you're doing right now is making assumptions about me and my views.

You think I'm intentionally ignoring good plays?? I also don't seek out bad plays either... And where have I said he's 100% invisible...? Really...?

You can think what you want, but I try to watch hockey without my "Leafs-coloured glasses"... I've made it clear that I do think Bracco is highly skilled with good edgework and vision... This is very evident when he has lots of room to play around with. Where I am concerned is that I have yet to see plus strength, speed, motor/drive, defensive abilities in Bracco's play... This will make him a lot less effective on 5v5 at the pro level. For an under-average sized player, he NEEDS to have most of these skills to be an effective NHLer. There have been plenty of skilled players with good edgework and vision to not even come close to the NHL, so when I've been bringing up my concerns, all I'm saying is people need to hamper expectations.

What exactly am I saying wrong here...?

At the end of the day, I'd probably list Bracco as a #10-12 prospect in our system... nothing wrong with that, is there?

What I find most anoying is that some people automatically call me a "hater" simply because I have different opinions... Not only in hockey talk, but I see this all the time in social/political discussions... Just because you have a differing opinions doesn't make the other person 'evil' or a 'hater'...

I try not to rate guys too high or too low until they crack the NHL lineup and see how they fit.
Too many people are hung up on numbers, #10 prospect, #4 D, #2/3 C, how do you even classify all this on a scientific level? Fast skater + good shot + I like him = #4 prospect. Drafted in x spot means "elite". Whatever.
Over the years players I've thought would have a big impact just didn't and those I didn't consider fit in well.
Aside from those who really are core position players, the others might bring valuable skills that compliment the build going on. That might be Bracco, it might not. There could be another Brown somewhere or Dermott could be a player Babs and the organization comes to lean on.
Hard to say until they arrive so it's better to just let them do their thing until that time. Don't have to be the star of every tournament or ensure they have 1 better game than a Habs prospect, just let them evolve naturally. Hope their skill, character, hard work translates into good pieces for us.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

1) Its not hate, its raising concerns... 2) people on here seem to think he's a Kapanen/Dermott/Grundstrom level of prospect right now. He isn't. Thats all.

Don't think Grundstrom is on the same level as Kap and Dermott to be honest.

I'd say Bracco has a higher ceiling than Grundstrom for sure and maybe even Kapp. That is how elite Bracco's offensive talents and potential are. Definitely a boom or bust prospect but he could be an amazingly gifted winger.

 

[LeafingTheWay]

Liljegren
Kappy

Dermott Bracco Grundstrom

^ Those are the levels I have.

 

[Ziggdiezan]

Liljegren
Kappy

Dermott Bracco Grundstrom

^ Those are the levels I have.

Due to organizational needs i'd say Kapp and Dermott are on the same level. I also think Dermott is probably more valuable as his floor is starting to look like a mobile two way #4. He looked dominant in the AHL as a 19/20 year old.

I feel like Dermott could force Rielly to play on the right side next year:

Gardiner-Zaitsev
Dermott-Rielly

Then Lily comes up and Leafs make a huge decision about re-signing Gardiner.

 

[Knies iT]

Johnsson should be in the Grundstrom tier.

Agreed on Johnsson. He's one of the true underrated Marlies. Could play in the NHL right now in a bottom six role and not look out of place with his speed, motor and two-way game. He's a Kapanen lite.

 

[MagicalRazor]

I like Grundstrom, but his skill level I think leaves a lot of question marks marks about what kind of NHLer he'll be (assuming he gets there).

Folks are also being a bit too harsh on Bracco. He's a prospect who needs more cooking time, which is why most guys take several years to make the NHL. His skill level can't be denied.

He will be Leo Komorov with a better shot

 

[Leafs at Knight]

Dermott is on a higher level than Bracco for sure. I'd put Grundstrom above also.

 

[Damisoph]

It's so that we don't poach all their talent. That way their own league stays fun and has and fans can see their future stars.

So I had it right, cool. Ya I can understand that.

 

[DopeyFish]

anybody that doubts bracco's ability to become a great player needs to get a copy of the memorial cup final and play it on repeat.