Confirmed with Link: Leafs sign Roni Hirvonen and Topi Niemelä to ELCs

[Stephen]

How long is this apprenticeship?

Liljegren has played 148 regular season games in the AHL and 74 on the NHL

Sandin has played only 66 AHL regular season games and 88 NHL regular season game.

I mean, I don't want 3/6 of the typical Leaf blueline to consist of Liljegren, Niemela and Sandin all at once. That's a lot of kids and we don't have enough babysitters. Morgan Rielly is also not a classic veteran defenseman who can provide a lot of stability for a rookie.

 

[Stephen]

Lol I didn't realize you meant "growth" literally.

There are plenty of guys his size in the NHL. He's not going to physically overmatch guys, it's not his style. He struggles a bit with in zone defense due to his strength, but its similar to Liljegren in his positioning is strong, hes got a grest stick, uses the physicality he has, and he's got an excellent first pass which makes it so they don't typically spend extended times in his own end.

He really shines with defensive transitions in that he knows when to jump the blueline and disrupt entries, and the odd time he'll step up and crush someone. Another thing that makes it so his team doesn't spend extended times in his own end.

As for weight/height I don't really pay attention to that. I know he's been listed at 6' before and I'd guess he'll have a final weight he'd be listed at some time.

I think size isn't a problem as far as an individual player is concerned but can be a problem if you're building for a real world NHL roster.

Let's say you're building a real defense corps. You'd take an Adam Fox over a Colton Parakyo every day of the week. And if could take Quinn Hughes second, you'd take him over over an Erik Cernak. But do you keep stocking with Torey Krug, Samuel Girard, Jared Spurgeon, etc. moving down the roster? Or do you start circling back to Cernak to try and diversify the group to play in different situations?

I think the Leafs basically have that dilemma. Instead of having a couple of 6'4" horses who can play in the top 4 who can give you big minutes, two way play, long wingspan defense, they suddenly need to pad out the bottom of the roster with Lyubushkin and Holl who can give them some of those attributes.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I mean, I don't want 3/6 of the typical Leaf blueline to consist of Liljegren, Niemela and Sandin all at once. That's a lot of kids and we don't have enough babysitters. Morgan Rielly is also not a classic veteran defenseman who can provide a lot of stability for a rookie.

But think of the puck moving ability.....and don't think of being trapped in your own zone for 1min+ with them and you're fine.

 

[Stephen]

But think of the puck moving ability.....and don't think of being trapped in your own zone for 1min+ with them and you're fine.

Yeah, but puck moving begins with puck retrieval, which means your smaller defenseman needs to go on the retreat at times. This creates a heavy forecheck opportunity where they can get plastered and you need adult supervision to stop the attack and start the transition sequence. Having two smaller puck retrievers can turn into a bloodbath quick.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

You can count on 1 hand how many NHL Dman play in the NHL at 170'bs..

Anyone that happened to catch yesterday's Avs/Blues tilt, would have seen Samuel Girard taken into the boards on a heavy hit and leaving the game and out for this years playoffs with a broken sternum and currently in hospital.



- The sternum is a long, flat bone in the centre of the chest. It is connected to the ribs with cartilage. Together with the ribs, it helps to protect important organs in the chest, such as the heart and lungs, from damage.

Serious injury from contact always the concern with small players in the game.

Lol you used a hit from behind into the boards to knock on smaller players. If he was 3 inches taller and 15lbs heavier, he doesn't get hurt by being shoved hard into the boards from behind?

 

[supermann_98]

They have to be offered back to their European to teams if they don't make the NHL as part of the transfer agreement.

Wouldn't the Player have the option on where they play? What if they don't make the NHL but prefer to live in Toronto to play and train with the Marlies? Being here they're potentially one injury and phone call away to being in the show

 

[Leaf Fans]

Wouldn't the Player have the option on where they play? What if they don't make the NHL but prefer to live in Toronto to play and train with the Marlies? Being here they're potentially one injury and phone call away to being in the show

Sure, they can quit their European team. The Leafs just have to offer the player back. The team can refuse.

 

[francis246]

I think size isn't a problem as far as an individual player is concerned but can be a problem if you're building for a real world NHL roster.

Let's say you're building a real defense corps. You'd take an Adam Fox over a Colton Parakyo every day of the week. And if could take Quinn Hughes second, you'd take him over over an Erik Cernak. But do you keep stocking with Torey Krug, Samuel Girard, Jared Spurgeon, etc. moving down the roster? Or do you start circling back to Cernak to try and diversify the group to play in different situations?

I think the Leafs basically have that dilemma. Instead of having a couple of 6'4" horses who can play in the top 4 who can give you big minutes, two way play, long wingspan defense, they suddenly need to pad out the bottom of the roster with Lyubushkin and Holl who can give them some of those attributes.

I’m not sure I would take Adam Fox over Parayko and I’m willing to bet if you polled many GM’s it would probably be a 50/50 split. I think it really depends on what type of philosophy you as a GM carry.

 

[Hockey 4 Life]

I truly believe as Liljegren and Sandin progress both will become much more physical. Niemela strikes me as a Brian rafalski type which is never a bad thing.

 

[Knies iT]

Lol I didn't realize you meant "growth" literally.

There are plenty of guys his size in the NHL. He's not going to physically overmatch guys, it's not his style. He struggles a bit with in zone defense due to his strength, but its similar to Liljegren in his positioning is strong, hes got a grest stick, uses the physicality he has, and he's got an excellent first pass which makes it so they don't typically spend extended times in his own end.

He really shines with defensive transitions in that he knows when to jump the blueline and disrupt entries, and the odd time he'll step up and crush someone. Another thing that makes it so his team doesn't spend extended times in his own end.

As for weight/height I don't really pay attention to that. I know he's been listed at 6' before and I'd guess he'll have a final weight he'd be listed at some time.

I don't think i've ever seen him "crush" anyone. He'll plant his feet and play the man from time to time but he's never really lining anyone up or jarring them.

The Liljegren comparison is apt. Niemela has almost identical strengths, with more of a shooter's mindset, but worse passing accuracy and breakout creativity. He is also built much slimmer at the same age and doesn't have as much genetic potential as Liljegren. They will be similar players but Topi will have less finesse and a weaker frame.

 

[Morgs]

I don't think i've ever seen him "crush" anyone. He'll plant his feet and play the man from time to time but he's never really lining anyone up or jarring them.

The Liljegren comparison is apt. Niemela has almost identical strengths, with more of a shooter's mindset, but worse passing accuracy and breakout creativity. He is also built much slimmer at the same age and doesn't have as much genetic potential as Liljegren. They will be similar players but Topi will have less finesse and a weaker frame.

I tried to find the videos but I remember in his draft year there were multiple times he stepped up and crushed guys in the neutral zone.

Haven't seen it this year, but people thought he'd do it more as he got stronger and more used to the league.

 

[Knies iT]

I tried to find the videos but I remember in his draft year there were multiple times he stepped up and crushed guys in the neutral zone.

Haven't seen it this year, but people thought he'd do it more as he got stronger and more used to the league.

Byfield and Slafkovsky are the only two I can remember, but that was WJC and pretty tame hits. We'll see.

 

[Dreakmur]

Lol you used a hit from behind into the boards to knock on smaller players. If he was 3 inches taller and 15lbs heavier, he doesn't get hurt by being shoved hard into the boards from behind?

It wasn’t a bit from behind.

If he was taller, his sternum may not hit the dasher. If he’s heavier, the forechecked doesn’t blow through him so easily and he doesn’t hit the boards as hard.

 

[Johnny Engine]

I mean, I don't want 3/6 of the typical Leaf blueline to consist of Liljegren, Niemela and Sandin all at once. That's a lot of kids and we don't have enough babysitters. Morgan Rielly is also not a classic veteran defenseman who can provide a lot of stability for a rookie.

We may remember a blueline with all four of Tyson Barrie, a 19-year-old Sandin, Travis Dermott, and Rielly dealing with some mystery nagging injury all year. Run that out and you're one Muzzin injury away from making MarMar kill entire penalties by himself.

 

[Sammy Kat]

When you keep having small dmen the other teams forwards have no fear and will charge in and also never be afraid to crowd the net since they cannot be moved.

Yes you need skilled D and some will be smallish but not all of them can be.

Dubas just never learns you need some size and some nasty back there or you fail.
When you also consider whatever the goaltending situation will be is not good having big guys and shot blockers ala Tampa Bay means a lot.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I think size isn't a problem as far as an individual player is concerned but can be a problem if you're building for a real world NHL roster.

Let's say you're building a real defense corps. You'd take an Adam Fox over a Colton Parakyo every day of the week. And if could take Quinn Hughes second, you'd take him over over an Erik Cernak. But do you keep stocking with Torey Krug, Samuel Girard, Jared Spurgeon, etc. moving down the roster? Or do you start circling back to Cernak to try and diversify the group to play in different situations?

I think the Leafs basically have that dilemma. Instead of having a couple of 6'4" horses who can play in the top 4 who can give you big minutes, two way play, long wingspan defense, they suddenly need to pad out the bottom of the roster with Lyubushkin and Holl who can give them some of those attributes.

Well we are not exactly stacking up on 5'9" guys here though, nor are we talking about guys who are offensive defensemen. Koster is really the only guy we have who is that small.

Ideally, you have a bunch of guys who know how to do many different things. We have guys who are only average-sized, but they know how to defend in tight, they throw hits, they defend using their bodies and their feet... Effectively, they can do a lot of different things. Sandin and Niemela, especially, still need some more meat on them but they are also still young. If they can both get to 6'0", 200lbs, I don't think we have to be overly concerned with them being able to handle guys out front, even if they are 6'4"+. I am fairly sure the whole "leverage" analysis thing was thrown around here a few years ago, and how that matters a lot more than pure size and strength... Which is also why a guy like Rasanen was getting destroyed in battles despite being 6'7", 230 lbs going up against half a foot shorter and 30lbs+ lighter than him.

I am more concerned if we had a bunch of one type of defensemen on our team... But I have seen 6'0" defensive defensemen who could shut down pretty much anyone and I have seen 6'4" large offensive defensemen who couldn't defend for their life.

 

[NMacrules]

I dont know why but i get the feeling Hirvonen will be a better player than Niemala

No he won't.

Whats going on with Lyubushkin? Is he going to get re-signed? Anyone hear anything? I know he takes far to many penalties but that will happen with the style he plays.

 

[kb]

I’m not sure I would take Adam Fox over Parayko and I’m willing to bet if you polled many GM’s it would probably be a 50/50 split. I think it really depends on what type of philosophy you as a GM carry.

It's more about what your team requires than a philosophy. Top end puck mover, or all round shutdown D

 

[ULF_55]

So they're off to the next round.

Don't get to go home yet.

finland sweden

Previews, Game Summary, Boxscore and Highlights

www.tsn.ca

 

[WTFMAN99]

Anthony Beauviliier played a season at age 19....Hirvonen will be 21 in Jan...should we rule out entirely for the roster?

Will he and Niemela even be in training camp or it's back to Europe 100% until next year?

 

[Burnie97]

Anthony Beauviliier played a season at age 19....Hirvonen will be 21 in Jan...should we rule out entirely for the roster?

Will he and Niemela even be in training camp or it's back to Europe 100% until next year?

From what I've read they are both signed one more year with their clubs in Europe but then I'd imagine they'd be looking for a full camp next year and they'd probably start in the AHL unless one of them has an unreal camp.

I suppose this year they could be at camp but I think they'd be training in Europe for the season there.

 

[WTFMAN99]

From what I've read they are both signed one more year with their clubs in Europe but then I'd imagine they'd be looking for a full camp next year and they'd probably start in the AHL unless one of them has an unreal camp.

I suppose this year they could be at camp but I think they'd be training in Europe for the season there.

Thanks

I don't want them to be on the roster if they don't deserve to be here but I would also like to get some of the younger guys onto the team.

Kral is a guy that is gonna maybe need a half a season and he's ready for the NHL. Holmberg? He's 23, it's time if it's gonna happen most likely.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I tried to find the videos but I remember in his draft year there were multiple times he stepped up and crushed guys in the neutral zone.

Haven't seen it this year, but people thought he'd do it more as he got stronger and more used to the league.

Well i have personally seen him crunch guys in AHL pre COVID and even better I have seen guys try to run him over (much much bigger guys) and his core strength is off da charts good. I think he actually plays a better game when game is slower (to his pace) against weaker slower AHL teams where he can better utilize his smarts and hands skills. Da issue with NHL is game is much faster than his pace (and you could have seen a preview of it against Carolina farm team in AHL playoffs). He went from best player on ice series before to maybe Marlies biggest problem in Charlotte. It was much like da Habs playoff series where he gave up games with his poor pace skating issues. To me da evidence is pretty clear over da past 3 years unless he lengthens his stride he will not make it as an NHL defender.

 

[ChicagoBullsFan]

Hirvonen, Niemela get Maple Leafs' attention at 2022 World Juniors | NHL.com

Forward, defenseman prospects have helped Finland advance to quarterfinals

www.nhl.com

 

[stickty111]

Well i have personally seen him crunch guys in AHL pre COVID and even better I have seen guys try to run him over (much much bigger guys) and his core strength is off da charts good. I think he actually plays a better game when game is slower (to his pace) against weaker slower AHL teams where he can better utilize his smarts and hands skills. Da issue with NHL is game is much faster than his pace (and you could have seen a preview of it against Carolina farm team in AHL playoffs). He went from best player on ice series before to maybe Marlies biggest problem in Charlotte. It was much like da Habs playoff series where he gave up games with his poor pace skating issues. To me da evidence is pretty clear over da past 3 years unless he lengthens his stride he will not make it as an NHL defender.

He's talking about Niemela.
Strange because Sandin already has and a permanent NHL defender.