Post-Game Talk: Leafs lay a next-gen egg in a lackluster loss 4-2 to the Senators.

[Torontonian]

I disagree one legit difference maker and were in good shape I like the second pair

Difference makers are hard to find and get, is a 34 year old Tanev a difference maker? Not to me. I think best option age wise and play wise is Hanafin, but you need to resign him in the summer..

Moe - Brodie (Moe has been awesome this season, Brodie has been declining since the playoffs)

Lilligren - McCabe (Ideal world with a "good" d-core, McCabe is probably playing on the 5-6 slot)

Laggesson/Beniot/ - Gio (Gio is looking like hes 40 years old... and the left side shouldn't sniff a cup contenders D IMO)

Which is why I think they need 2 good Dman to replace McCabe in the top 4 and someone to play beside McCabe in the 5-6 role.

 

[Racer88]

I keep reading in the Around the League thread how bad the Sen’s are, a “tire fire” is a popular theme, but does anyone really believe the Leafs are cup contenders when they can’t beat such a putrid team? Oh, and 88 ain’t worth what he’s asking for, I see his habit of avoiding contact has reared it’s ugly head again, I knew he couldn’t keep up the high level of play to get paid for too long………

The Leafs are not even close to cup contenders, I’m not even sure if they are 2nd round contenders.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I was watching Ricky Gervais special. This Leaf team is actually funnier.

That’s a pretty low bar though

 

[Racer88]

Penguins now just 4 points behind the Leafs all though Leafs have a game in hand. Woll, Keefe and Matthews are carrying the Leafs. Dubas was called the worst GM in franchise history, yet our current GM has us very close in the standings with him.

He was the worst until Tre got here

 

[rumman]

The Leafs are not even close to cup contenders, I’m not even sure if they are 2nd round contenders.

Yup, your preaching to the choir my friend………

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Of course, you need good players, but it seems as if it comes at the expense of a greater team identity and cohesion.

Vancouver Canucks

A new coach can be done without wasting assets.

Tre has to wait until the right coach is available.

There is zero reason to keep Keefe.

There is zero reason for Tre to keep Keefe when a perceived better coach is available.

Currently there are no better options, just different.

 

[rumman]

are you new to the dubas taint lickers.

they are an active group.

Perfect description……..

 

[Cleetus]

Penguins now just 4 points behind the Leafs all though Leafs have a game in hand. Woll, Keefe and Matthews are carrying the Leafs. Dubas was called the worst GM in franchise history, yet our current GM has us very close in the standings with him.

this is now the pens forum!!!! pro pens talk allowed here now!

 

[Rare Jewel]

are you new to the dubas taint lickers.

they are an active group.

Is it really even about Dubas anymore, or is it about the hurt pride of the people who went overboard with support?

To me, it just seems self-serving now.

Domi line was 9 scoring chances for 1 against at even strength according to naturalstatrick dot com

How often did they start in the offensive zone?

 

[ToneDog]

Vancouver Canucks



Tre has to wait until the right coach is available.

There is zero reason to keep Keefe.

There is zero reason for Tre to keep Keefe when a perceived better coach is available.

Currently there are no better options, just different.

Berube and his SC ring disagrees. Took a sad sack Blues team in early January to the SC Final and beat the Bruins in their barn in game #7. When was the last time the Leafs hoisted a cup in Beantown ?

 

[rumman]

Is it really even about Dubas anymore, or is it about the hurt pride of the people who went overboard with support?

To me, it just seems self-serving now.


How often did they start in the offensive zone?

It takes a person with character to admit when they’re wrong, character is a rare commodity for some here……..

 

[TheDoldrums]

I will say I don’t entirely subscribe to the idea this drop in defensive play is the result of significantly less capable defensive players in our roster construction.

This team is largely unchanged from the beginning of last year

Bunting who stinks defensively was replaced with Bertuzzi who stinks defensively. No net difference.

Kerfoot out is unfortunate, he was useful defensively. Domi is a clear defensive downgrade, but actually contributes offense.

ROR, Lafferty, Acciari were added at the deadline and we were good defensively before they arrived.

Klingberg was a misstep but one that rectified itself so no longer an excuse.

We let Holl go and his role is now filled by McCabe. Holl was a good penalty killer but lousy in most other facets.

I’d say Brodie not playing his best is a bigger factor than any of the personnel choices given how important he’s been to our defensive game.

I think you're just very wrong in your evaluations of Bunting and Holl, who were very good defensive players when they were here. Saying Bunting stinks is wild, the guy was top 5 in Evolving Wilds GAR alongside guys like Matthews and McDavid in his rookie year because his underlyings were so sparkling. Even the notion that the Carolina Hurricanes would make him a prime target should cause some reconsideration of the idea that he sucks defensively.

I do agree that Brodie falling off a cliff is a huge factor, but I think you're severely underestimating the dropoff from Bunting/Kerfoot/Holl to Bertuzzi/Domi/AHL player.

Also just feels like Occams Razor. When you drop from a top 10 defensive team into a bottom 10 defensive team with the same coach and core, the surrounding new pieces would seem to be the most likely cause.

 

[Rare Jewel]

who were very good defensive players when they were here. Saying Bunting stinks is wild, the guy was top 5 in Evolving Wilds GAR alongside guys like Matthews

I won't say he stinks, but his defensive numbers are certainly inflated by playing with Matthews and Marner.

If you're starting 60%+ in the offensive zone with Matthews and Marner/Nylander, chances are they're dominating the puck and not giving the opposition much of a look until they change.


That's not to say that Tre made the best signings because he certainly didn't. But they should be replaceable. Knies in effect, is more of Buntings replacement than Bertuzzi or Domi

 

[Sypher04]

I think you're just very wrong in your evaluations of Bunting and Holl, who were very good defensive players when they were here. Saying Bunting stinks is wild, the guy was top 5 in Evolving Wilds GAR alongside guys like Matthews and McDavid in his rookie year because his underlyings were so sparkling. Even the notion that the Carolina Hurricanes would make him a prime target should cause some reconsideration of the idea that he sucks defensively.

I do agree that Brodie falling off a cliff is a huge factor, but I think you're severely underestimating the dropoff from Bunting/Kerfoot/Holl to Bertuzzi/Domi/AHL player.

Also just feels like Occams Razor. When you drop from a top 10 defensive team into a bottom 10 defensive team with the same coach and core, the surrounding new pieces would seem to be the most likely cause.

I’d say it’s a much bigger factor that we changed the defensive coach and the defensive system this season. Even many guys who have traditionally played well defensively have not had the same results this year.

Also Bunting is not a good defensive player. If he has statistics that contradict that opinion I’ll say it’s probably the effect of playing on a line predominantly with the two best defensive forwards on the team in Matthews and Marner and that they typical dominate puck possession and chances so it masks his defensive flaws. Concersely, other guys like Bertuzzi haven’t traditionally had that same luxury

Bunting/Kerfoot/Holl vs Bertuzzi/Domi/McCabe is simply not a notable defensive downgrade except for Domi

 

[arso40]

Difference makers are hard to find and get, is a 34 year old Tanev a difference maker? Not to me. I think best option age wise and play wise is Hanafin, but you need to resign him in the summer..

Moe - Brodie (Moe has been awesome this season, Brodie has been declining since the playoffs)

Lilligren - McCabe (Ideal world with a "good" d-core, McCabe is probably playing on the 5-6 slot)

Laggesson/Beniot/ - Gio (Gio is looking like hes 40 years old... and the left side shouldn't sniff a cup contenders D IMO)

Which is why I think they need 2 good Dman to replace McCabe in the top 4 and someone to play beside McCabe in the 5-6 role.

Agree with all points but I think we can get by with mccabe in the top 4 as long as brodies off top pair and you find riellys partner I wools look to get both Hanifan and tanev in a bloc buster trade Brodie going the other way

 

[alliuk12]

You know you’re team is bad when they can’t beat the sens

 

[Canadian Finn]

Cupcakes describes this group so well, should consider changing the name of the team. The Toronto Cupcakes.

I found last year sponsors "Milk" and "Tiktok" were most perfect for our little group of winners.

 

[alliuk12]

think we can get by with mccabe in the top 4 as long as brodies off top pair and you find riellys partner I wools look to get both

#FireKeefe

ShelDONE is absolutely DONE!

2 dollar coach coaching a 2 billion dollar franchise.

JOKE of the year

That is why he’s here he’s cheap and they don’t give a crap because they are hording your dollars

 

[notDatsyuk]

He is still getting points, but his stanley cup was the Sweden games. He is not playing anywhere near what he was leading up to that, especially away from the puck or along the boards. I saw him lazily give up on quite a few plays tonight (Matthews too, but that is not for this post).

His backcheck was mind-blowingly stupid on top, so even when he was putting in some effort, it was in doing the wrong thing (aren't we taught in like novice or atom to chase down the other guy and leave the puck carrier to the d-man?).

Matty and Mitch with two giveaways each, while Willy had none. Mitch with the worst (lack of) backcheck on the second goal. Willy's line led the way in shots, and with a little luck they could have had several goals.

You do realize that over the last 12 games he's leading the team in assists (as many as Matty and Mitch combined), more points than anyone but his centre for most of them, has a shorthanded goal, and biggest surprise of all, is second to JT in faceoff % (yes, small sample size). He also has twice as many hits as Mitch, and leads the team in takeaways (almost 50% more than Mitch, with fewer giveaways).

 

[notDatsyuk]

EN goal.

Got the puck at the hash mark of the offensive zone and did his usual turn-back which is completely predictable, and the puck went right down for a goal against.

For some reason, he has a complete aversion to moving the puck behind the net to his teammates, and the NHL knows it.

If you think his backcheck on the first goal was half-assed, what do you think of Mitch's on the second?

I agree the EN was his fault - he should have known JT's pass wouldn't reach him (it didn't), and turned back sooner.

 

[arso40]

Matty and Mitch with two giveaways each, while Willy had none. Mitch with the worst (lack of) backcheck on the second goal. Willy's line led the way in shots, and with a little luck they could have had several goals.

You do realize that over the last 12 games he's leading the team in assists (as many as Matty and Mitch combined), more points than anyone but his centre for most of them, has a shorthanded goal, and biggest surprise of all, is second to JT in faceoff % (yes, small sample size). He also has twice as many hits as Mitch, and leads the team in takeaways (almost 50% more than Mitch, with fewer giveaways).

There’s a bias and it’s ignorance at its finest the blame Willy for everything is starting to get humourous

 

[Niagara Bill]

That’s a pretty low bar though

We will have to see how low the bar goes this year. Reruns of "Lost in Space" may be more appropriate.

 

[leafs in five]

How often did they start in the offensive zone?

3 o zone shift starts 2 neutral zone 0 dzone (obvously). not the 3rd line I would put together but they can only make do with the ice time they get. and yeah we basically have 3 lines that need sheltering and it's crazy imo to suggest that isn't on the GM or that it's no different to the last few years. regardless I thought they played p good outside the giveaway for the giroux shorthanded break, jarnkrok I think?

 

[notDatsyuk]

It’s not wasted. He needs teammates around him

He and his linemates were easily the best line (as that chart showed very nicely). JT and Bert could easily have had at least one goal (more) each.

 

[leafs in five]

Also just feels like Occams Razor. When you drop from a top 10 defensive team into a bottom 10 defensive team with the same coach and core, the surrounding new pieces would seem to be the most likely cause.

yup