Sportsnet: Leafs half season review.

[Dekes For Days]

Cambell got a 5 year deal in Edmonton and handcuffed the team. That was a distinct possibility given Samsonov's good numbers last year of happening to us.

What does Campbell getting a 5 year deal in Edmonton have to do with the Leafs or the previous GM? He literally avoided giving that deal to Campbell, and was very cautious with big commitments to unproven goalies, so I'm not sure how you're attempting to use that to argue that he would do the opposite when it came to Samsonov, based on nothing.

But Treliving, a GM, has tanked out defensive play? That’s a new one.

I mean, it's not really new. He replaced good defensive players with bad defensive players, while adding rookies to the mix, and not replacing our defensive losses, which created combinations that wouldn't work, and then all of our defensive metrics and visible defensive play dropped off as expected, and it's been a major topic of conversation for pretty much everybody all season.

 

[Gallagbi]

You're being obtuse. Cambell got a 5 year deal in Edmonton and handcuffed the team. That was a distinct possibility given Samsonov's good numbers last year of happening to us. We dodged a bullet everyone but you seems to agree. Maybe if you weren't so obsessed with defending Dubas you would think about it from the team's perspective not your hero's legacy which is dubious at best.

Really doubtful given how Dubas has handled goalies historically.

 

[GoonieFace]

What does Campbell getting a 5 year deal in Edmonton have to do with the Leafs or the previous GM? He literally avoided giving that deal to Campbell, and was very cautious with big commitments to unproven goalies, so I'm not sure how you're attempting to use that to argue that he would do the opposite when it came to Samsonov, based on nothing.

I mean, it's not really new. He replaced good defensive players with bad defensive players, while adding rookies to the mix, and not replacing our defensive losses, which created combinations that wouldn't work, and then all of our defensive metrics and visible defensive play dropped off as expected, and it's been a major topic of conversation for pretty much everybody all season.

What good defensive players did he replace on this team?
Also, it was quite obvious in previous playoffs that scoring was an issue, hence try to add some offence.

 

[hotpaws]

Claiming that somebody would have done something with zero evidence, and then attempting to support it by pointing to them doing the exact opposite is certainly weird.

I spoke to Dubas , he told me he would have given Sammy the same deal he gave Jarry , so there's the evidence you wanted .

 

[Dekes For Days]

What good defensive players did he replace on this team?
Also, it was quite obvious in previous playoffs that scoring was an issue, hence try to add some offence.

Depends how you want to compare, but we had the likes of Kerfoot, Engvall, O'Rielly, ZAR, Acciari, Lafferty, Schenn, Holl, etc. help with defensive support last year. The big additions this past offseason were the likes of Bertuzzi, Domi, Klingberg, and Reaves - which were all among the worst defensive players in the league - and that surrounded rookies like Knies and Robertson being inserted as consistent pieces. It was also our first real chance to replace the loss of Muzzin, or protect against potential age-related declines, and we didn't even come close to trying.

The conclusions some people drew about the playoffs were faulty to start with, but we already were inserting additional offensive depth anyway, with us finally being able to add some internal ELC depth. We needed to surround them well; not abandon defensive ability in both our forward and defensive groups, and create mixtures that didn't work.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

Really doubtful given how Dubas has handled goalies historically.

I don't know. Dubas being an analytics guy and Samsonov putting up sparkling numbers the previous season was a recipe for disaster. If Sammy got a multi year deal and had his sieve performances it would have been an epic fail.

What exact history with goalies does Dubas have that makes you sure he would have handled it correctly? And does it even matter. I'm just relieved he got his 1 year arbitration deal and we can cut ties. Dubas is ancient history.

 

[ToneDog]

Really doubtful given how Dubas has handled goalies historically.

He gave Mrazek 3x$3.8m and he had Soup here. He had Woll here, so it is not out of the realm that he gives Sammy up to 5 years IMO. If there was a bad decision to be made, Dubas would have made it. LOL.

 

[ACC1224]

He gave Mrazek 3x$3.8m and he had Soup here. He had Woll here, so it is not out of the realm that he gives Sammy up to 5 years IMO. If there was a bad decision to be made, Dubas would have made it. LOL.

Didn't he let Campbell go because of cap constraints?

 

[GoonieFace]

Depends how you want to compare, but we had the likes of Kerfoot, Engvall, O'Rielly, ZAR, Acciari, Lafferty, Schenn, Holl, etc. help with defensive support last year. The big additions this past offseason were the likes of Bertuzzi, Domi, Klingberg, and Reaves - which were all among the worst defensive players in the league - and that surrounded rookies like Knies and Robertson being inserted as consistent pieces. It was also our first real chance to replace the loss of Muzzin, or protect against potential age-related declines, and we didn't even come close to trying.

The conclusions some people drew about the playoffs were faulty to start with, but we already were inserting additional offensive depth anyway, with us finally being able to add some internal ELC depth. We needed to surround them well; not abandon defensive ability in both our forward and defensive groups, and create mixtures that didn't work.

Dubas traded Engvall, O’Reilly, Acciari, Lafferty and Schenn were deadline adds, so they played what 13 games with the Leafs. This is what you are hanging your hat on?

ZAR isn’t even in the NHL anymore, Lafferty is a 4th liner at best and plays 8 minutes/game. Kerfoot is Kerfoot.

This isn’t the reason, there has been some major regression with the players they had from last year. At least Tre’s adds are 1 year deals, he can reevaluate, he’s at least owed that

 

[Jozay]

Pretty f***ing bad.

Big offseason flop, Shanahan NEEDS to go

 

[Gallagbi]

I don't know. Dubas being an analytics guy and Samsonov putting up sparkling numbers the previous season was a recipe for disaster. If Sammy got a multi year deal and had his sieve performances it would have been an epic fail.

What exact history with goalies does Dubas have that makes you sure he would have handled it correctly? And does it even matter. I'm just relieved he got his 1 year arbitration deal and we can cut ties. Dubas is ancient history.

He let Fred and Campbell both walk because he wasn't willing to bet on either of them. For as good as Sammy was last year, he still only had 40 starts.

 

[Nineteen67]

Dubas traded Engvall, O’Reilly, Acciari, Lafferty and Schenn were deadline adds, so they played what 13 games with the Leafs. This is what you are hanging your hat on?

ZAR isn’t even in the NHL anymore, Lafferty is a 4th liner at best and plays 8 minutes/game. Kerfoot is Kerfoot.

This isn’t the reason, there has been some major regression with the players they had from last year. At least Tre’s adds are 1 year deals, he can reevaluate, he’s at least owed that

Those TDL acquisitions were desperation trades to try and win a round. You can add a piece at the trade deadline but you can’t expect to change 20% of your team and have a long run.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

He let Fred and Campbell both walk because he wasn't willing to bet on either of them. For as good as Sammy was last year, he still only had 40 starts.

Fair points. But I think Acc's point that cap restraints led to letting Cambell walk means if we had the room Dubas is locking him up and dooming the franchise. We'll never know but thank God we developed Woll and Jones fell into our lap or we are terribad in net.

 

[ToneDog]

Didn't he let Campbell go because of cap constraints?

My understanding is that they did not want to give Soup the term he wanted. Edmonton thankfully swooped in and gave it to him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas traded Engvall, O’Reilly, Acciari, Lafferty and Schenn were deadline adds

Not every player was there the whole year, but what was there the whole year was defensive competence in our supporting group of players. We had it before the deadline. We had it after the deadline. We had it in the playoffs. We had it for years before that. That was abandoned this offseason, we spent significant money on a group of the worst defensive players in the league in the pursuit of extra offense that they haven't provided, and our defensive results have predictably dropped.

there has been some major regression with the players they had from last year.

This is wildly overblown, and Treliving had the opportunity to help protect against this, and chose to instead insulate them even less and create chaotic mixtures around them.

At least Tre’s adds are 1 year deals, he can reevaluate, he’s at least owed that

Yes, it's good that some of Treliving's signings were 1 year commitments. The reason that it's good is because the decisions were bad, and they've predictably hurt us.
That part is not good, and doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in his future decisions.

 

[GoonieFace]

Not every player was there the whole year, but what was there the whole year was defensive competence in our supporting group of players. We had it before the deadline. We had it after the deadline. We had it in the playoffs. We had it for years before that. That was abandoned this offseason, we spent significant money on a group of the worst defensive players in the league in the pursuit of extra offense that they haven't provided, and our defensive results have predictably dropped.

This is wildly overblown, and Treliving had the opportunity to help protect against this, and chose to instead insulate them even less and create chaotic mixtures around them.

Yes, it's good that some of Treliving's signings were 1 year commitments. The reason that it's good is because the decisions were bad, and they've predictably hurt us.
That part is not good, and doesn't inspire a ton of confidence in his future decisions.

 

[ToneDog]

Those TDL acquisitions were desperation trades to try and win a round. You can add a piece at the trade deadline but you can’t expect to change 20% of your team and have a long run.

It got the MoFo his extension with Shanny and a promotion with the Pens and gave our scouting staff most of the draft week off. We are still reeling after Hurricane Kyle thankfully left town.

 

[Nineteen67]

It got the MoFo his extension with Shanny and a promotion with the Pens and gave our scouting staff most of the draft week off. We are still reeling after Hurricane Kyle thankfully left town.

But we knew last year the plan was to win a round and rebuild. The Dubas debacle wasted this year, but on the bright side he’s not doing the rebuild.
Now they have find a GM and the sooner the better if they want to build around Matthews.

 

[Apotheosis]

I am just waiting (not caring though) for the team to blow it up again. It's been 8 years and nothing to show for it. The team is never going to win anything meaningful.

 

[Suntouchable13]

But we knew last year the plan was to win a round and rebuild. The Dubas debacle wasted this year, but on the bright side he’s not doing the rebuild.
Now they have find a GM and the sooner the better if they want to build around Matthews.

If that was the plan, then should have traded Nylander instead of giving him that god awful extension.

 

[Darcy Tucker]

I am just waiting (not caring though) for the team to blow it up again. It's been 8 years and nothing to show for it. The team is never going to win anything meaningful.

Go watch Detroit games in the meantime then bro. This team is still young and has a new GM and will compete and win playoff rounds in my estimation. I can't imagine being an actual Leaf fan and just spewing hatred and blow it up posts towards them must be pretty miserable to be a hockey fan for you.

 

[IPS]

And yet, we were a better team with a better chance at the cup. Which is why most aren't so simplistic in their evaluations.

Tre hasn't even completed a full year yet buddy. Good chance you'll have to eat these words sooner then later.

 

[Nineteen67]

If that was the plan, then should have traded Nylander instead of giving him that god awful extension.

Probably. It looks like the execution of the plan will fail again, but I’m willing to wait to see who the new GM is before writing them off completely.

 

[keonsbitterness]

I am just waiting (not caring though) for the team to blow it up again. It's been 8 years and nothing to show for it. The team is never going to win anything meaningful.

You'll be waiting about eight years.

 

[Fogelhund]

Probably. It looks like the execution of the plan will fail again, but I’m willing to wait to see who the new GM is before writing them off completely.

Does it matter who the GM is, if it's Shanahan pulling the strings?