Eklund Rumor: Leafs eyeing: (ANA) Rakell, and (BUF) Staal

[Seanaconda]

Is Rakell that big of an upgrade to Kerfoot that would justify losing a 1st, a good prospect, and the potential pick it would take to move Kerfoot out? I would much rather spend that on a defenseman. A guy like Manson or Ekholm

He is but you would need a third line center

 

[varano]

Lol ofcourse ducks fans think they're dime a dozen forward is worth a first

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Lol ofcourse ducks fans think they're dime a dozen forward is worth a first

You do know what that expression means right?

 

[dracom]

Is Rakell that big of an upgrade to Kerfoot that would justify losing a 1st, a good prospect, and the potential pick it would take to move Kerfoot out? I would much rather spend that on a defenseman. A guy like Manson or Ekholm

good news, you can keep Kerfoot as well! We should have no desire to take him back.

 

[Arthur Morgan]

Rakell really hasn’t struggled at all.... he just lacks teammates.

as for the other post

prob 1st + prospect....prospect depending retention + cap dumps etc

I’d say

1st + amirov or liljegren + engvall or vessy for Rakell at 50%

I know some leaf fans will have a mental breakdown reading that tho


Or you’ll get the leaf fans expansion draft we might lose holl.... which isn’t exactly a great argument either

oooo. yeah I get the upgrade but I dont see Rakell being that savior. rather save the top prospects for a real need like goaltending and yeah I dunno about a breakdown but I dont think many of us would be on board with that price tag
I thought I read someone in here say late 1st + B prospect + roster player. down for that
Amirov, Liljegren arent b prospects

 

[McDonald19]

Lol ofcourse ducks fans think they're dime a dozen forward is worth a first

haha, thanks for the laugh.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

oooo. yeah I get the upgrade but I dont see Rakell being that savior. rather save the top prospects for a real need like goaltending and yeah I dunno about a breakdown but I dont think many of us would be on board with that price tag
I thought I read someone in here say late 1st + B prospect + roster player. down for that
Amirov, Liljegren arent b prospects

I think they said b/b+.... idk what would you consider amirov and liljegren? Also the trade I put in was Rakell at 50% but Idk if there is a way for leafs to trade for Rakell without retention... I suppose if kerfoot is involved

i don’t think the leafs need a savior matthews Tavares or marner should be the savior what your looking for is an increase in depth

 

[Morbo]

Rakell works too but I think Granlund might be a better fit for what the Leafs need.

 

[Magic Man]

Can you get someone better for a late 1st in a weak draft?

Nope.

 

[Magic Man]

I think they said b/b+.... idk what would you consider amirov and liljegren? Also the trade I put in was Rakell at 50% but Idk if there is a way for leafs to trade for Rakell without retention... I suppose if kerfoot is involved

i don’t think the leafs need a savior matthews Tavares or marner should be the savior what your looking for is an increase in depth

I think a 1st + Amirov or Liljegren is a bit extreme for a payment on Rakell. I do understand the positive of 50% retained though. I'm not sure how much that costs. I think the two options below make sense from a value perspective. Amirov may be worth more considering he's a mid first round pick. I'd consider Amirov and Liljegren to be A prospects. Both are mid first rounders.

Maybe Amirov + 2nd or Hirvonen + 1st

 

[Shocker]

These rumours actually have some others reporting this before Eklund, that's the only reason why these might not be the normal Eklund stuff, he just grabbed them from others.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I think a 1st + Amirov or Liljegren is a bit extreme for a payment on Rakell. I do understand the positive of 50% retained though. I'm not sure how much that costs. I think the two options below make sense from a value perspective. Amirov may be worth more considering he's a mid first round pick. I'd consider Amirov and Liljegren to be A prospects. Both are mid first rounders.

Maybe Amirov + 2nd or Hirvonen + 1st

That’s fair, from an outside perspective I had liljegren and amirov as b+ prospects and Sandin and robertson in the A category.

As for the last part of the post, I think that is reasonable and we’ll really have to see what the market is, as that will impact it too.... maybe as a positive for Toronto or Anaheim

weird having actual give and take discussion in a leaf trade thread normally it’s just hahahaha ya right that guy sucks!

 

[Mickey Marner]

Not very interested in upgrading forward depth for a playoff run while we still have a huge question mark in goal.

 

[CrosbyMalkin]

The centerpiece to a Rakell deal needs to be better than a late first. He's performing like a top line winger and makes under 4M this year and next. The Ducks should not move him if the return isn't notably better than the recent Zucker, Coleman and Kapanen deals, Rakell is the most attractive piece of that group.

Disagree with this. I think you are looking at exactly what Zucker and Kapanen got. I would take Kapanen over Rakell. Younger, faster, and still has upside which he is proving now. Kapanen is the Pens leading 5v5 point producer despite missing the first few games with a visa issue. If you think you are getting more than a 1st and a B prospect you are delusional. A few years ago maybe but not after his last couple season's.

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

Disagree with this. I think you are looking at exactly what Zucker and Kapanen got. I would take Kapanen over Rakell. Younger, faster, and still has upside which he is proving now. Kapanen is the Pens leading 5v5 point producer despite missing the first few games with a visa issue. If you think you are getting more than a 1st and a B prospect you are delusional. A few years ago maybe but not after his last couple season's.

Rakell has same amount of 5v5 points with no help around him. Kapanen is shooting significantly higher than his career average, while Rakell is significantly below his.

if Rakell has any centers to play with he’d prob be closer to a ppg player this year.

you can also have Rakell for 1.9 mil for this year and next which is pretty significant part of his value

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Disagree with this. I think you are looking at exactly what Zucker and Kapanen got. I would take Kapanen over Rakell. Younger, faster, and still has upside which he is proving now. Kapanen is the Pens leading 5v5 point producer despite missing the first few games with a visa issue. If you think you are getting more than a 1st and a B prospect you are delusional. A few years ago maybe but not after his last couple season's.

No reason why Zucker should be as valuable, hasn't shown the same offensive ceiling and makes 50% more on the cap.

You are attempting to use Kapanen's production after the trade, I was referring to his value when he was dealt. In his very best season he hadn't produced any more than Rakell did in his down years.

Either way the Kapanen trade is probably the closest comparable, and that would require a piece more valuable than a 1st coming from a contender.

 

[The Moose is Loose]

I can't see Rakell returning a top prospect and a 1st. I don't blame Ducks fans for asking for the moon but I really don't think they're in as strong of a trade position as they believe.

If they demand at least the Coleman return I could very easily see every GM in the league saying no thanks and then he wouldn't fetch half that amount next year as a 2 month rental.

 

[GhostOfWildWing]

I think people very much overrate late 1st rounders, which is where Toronto's should be. Using recent years (ignoring the very most recent few, as they haven't had time to show results yet):

2010: Howden, Kuznetsov, Visentin, Coyle, Etem, Nelson
2011: Percy, Danault, Namesktnikov, Phillips, Jensen, Rakell
2012: Schmaltz, Gaunce, Samuelsson, Skjei, Matteau, Pearson
2013: McCarron, Theodore, Dano, Klimchuk, Dickinson, Hartman
2014: Pastrnak, Scherbak, Goldobin, Ho-Sang, Kempe, Quenneville
2015: Roslovic, Juulsen, Larsson, Beauvillier, Carlsson, Merkley
2016: Tufte, Thompson, Howden, L. Johansen, Frederic, Steel
2017: Poehling, Oettinger, Frost, Bowers, Jokiharju, Tolvanen, Kostin

Total: 49 picks

Guys clearly better than Rakell: 3 (Kuz, Theodore, Pastrnak)
Guys in similar tier as Rakell: 9 (Danault, Rakell himself, Schmaltz, Kempe, Roslovic, Beauvillier, Frost, Jokiharju, Pearson)

So, late first rounder has roughly 6% chance to be better than Rakell, 18% chance to be similar to Rakell and 76% chance to be much worse than or a bust.

Based on the above, Rakell for a late 1st + B prospect (who probably is equivalent to a 2nd or 3rd rounder), is a pretty bad value (despite being a typical/standard) offer.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

I think people very much overrate late 1st rounders, which is where Toronto's should be. Using recent years (ignoring the very most recent few, as they haven't had time to show results yet):

2010: Howden, Kuznetsov, Visentin, Coyle, Etem, Nelson
2011: Percy, Danault, Namesktnikov, Phillips, Jensen, Rakell
2012: Schmaltz, Gaunce, Samuelsson, Skjei, Matteau, Pearson
2013: McCarron, Theodore, Dano, Klimchuk, Dickinson, Hartman
2014: Pastrnak, Scherbak, Goldobin, Ho-Sang, Kempe, Quenneville
2015: Roslovic, Juulsen, Larsson, Beauvillier, Carlsson, Merkley
2016: Tufte, Thompson, Howden, L. Johansen, Frederic, Steel
2017: Poehling, Oettinger, Frost, Bowers, Jokiharju, Tolvanen, Kostin

Total: 49 picks

Guys clearly better than Rakell: 3 (Kuz, Theodore, Pastrnak)
Guys in similar tier as Rakell: 9 (Danault, Rakell himself, Schmaltz, Kempe, Roslovic, Beauvillier, Frost, Jokiharju, Pearson)

So, late first rounder has roughly 6% chance to be better than Rakell, 18% chance to be similar to Rakell and 76% chance to be much worse than or a bust.

Based on the above, Rakell for a late 1st + B prospect (who probably is equivalent to a 2nd or 3rd rounder), is a pretty bad value (despite being a typical/standard) offer.

A mid first rounder like Amirov is the happy median, I think Lebrun was pretty spot on suggesting him as the centerpiece if the Leafs want to make this deal happen.

The Ducks shouldn't trade their current best forward for a lottery ticket who might be an NHL player in four years and a fistful of magic beans for sweetener. They need a prospect who is tracking well to be a good player within the next couple seasons, someone they can actual bank on being a core piece in the near future. They finally seem to have shaken their aversion to Russian prospects having finally drafted one for the first time in many years. Amirov would be a good fit.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I think people very much overrate late 1st rounders, which is where Toronto's should be. Using recent years (ignoring the very most recent few, as they haven't had time to show results yet):

2010: Howden, Kuznetsov, Visentin, Coyle, Etem, Nelson
2011: Percy, Danault, Namesktnikov, Phillips, Jensen, Rakell
2012: Schmaltz, Gaunce, Samuelsson, Skjei, Matteau, Pearson
2013: McCarron, Theodore, Dano, Klimchuk, Dickinson, Hartman
2014: Pastrnak, Scherbak, Goldobin, Ho-Sang, Kempe, Quenneville
2015: Roslovic, Juulsen, Larsson, Beauvillier, Carlsson, Merkley
2016: Tufte, Thompson, Howden, L. Johansen, Frederic, Steel
2017: Poehling, Oettinger, Frost, Bowers, Jokiharju, Tolvanen, Kostin

Total: 49 picks

Guys clearly better than Rakell: 3 (Kuz, Theodore, Pastrnak)
Guys in similar tier as Rakell: 9 (Danault, Rakell himself, Schmaltz, Kempe, Roslovic, Beauvillier, Frost, Jokiharju, Pearson)

So, late first rounder has roughly 6% chance to be better than Rakell, 18% chance to be similar to Rakell and 76% chance to be much worse than or a bust.

Based on the above, Rakell for a late 1st + B prospect (who probably is equivalent to a 2nd or 3rd rounder), is a pretty bad value (despite being a typical/standard) offer.

There's an established value for late 1sts, doing some napkin math doesn't change that. You're also getting 1.5 seasons of Rakell vs minimum 5 cost controlled years on the pick.

A mid first rounder like Amirov is the happy median, I think Lebrun was pretty spot on suggesting him as the centerpiece if the Leafs want to make this deal happen.

The Ducks shouldn't trade their current best forward for a lottery ticket who might be an NHL player in four years and a fistful of magic beans for sweetener. They need a prospect who is tracking well to be a good player within the next couple seasons, someone they can actual bank on being a core piece in the near future. They finally seem to have shaken their aversion to Russian prospects having finally drafted one for the first time in many years. Amirov would be a good fit.

Why is someone giving you a "core piece in the near future" for 1.5 seasons of a secondary scorer coming off his worst seasons? Rakell is not and was never a core piece, yet he returns one coming off 3 consecutive 20/20 seasons?

 

[Allhailtheleafs]

Tbh rackell is a luxery for tge leafs. For the price difference I'd rather have stall. Just think filling that 3c spot is more important then a winger. We got wingers. Marner, Nylander, Hymen, mickeyev, Simmonds, Robertson , vesy, thorton, engvall. Stall on the the third line would be sweet

Thorton-am34-marner
Hyman-tavares-nylander
Mikehev-Stall-simmonds
Kerfoot-Spezza-engvall(I know ots his offside)

Thats 4 crazy lines to roll

 

[WhatTheDuck]

There's an established value for late 1sts, doing some napkin math doesn't change that. You're also getting 1.5 seasons of Rakell vs minimum 5 cost controlled years on the pick.



Why is someone giving you a "core piece in the near future" for 1.5 seasons of a secondary scorer coming off his worst seasons?

Rakell is playing some of the best hockey of his career, looking every bit as good as he did in his back to back 30 goal seasons. He's performing like a bonafide top line winger and makes under 4M on the cap, in a flat cap era. If he could be had for a late first and spare parts, he wouldn't still be in Anaheim.

Even in those "worst seasons" you refer to, where he battled injuries and some of the worst surroundings an offensive player can have - Rakell still produced a 50 point pace. Despite the fact he did have a couple down years and looks rejuvenated this season, his underlying numbers show that he was pretty much the same player. He's a very attractive asset for any contending team who wants an immediate upgrade to its top 6.

 

[Space umpire]

I think a 1st + Amirov or Liljegren is a bit extreme for a payment on Rakell. I do understand the positive of 50% retained though. I'm not sure how much that costs. I think the two options below make sense from a value perspective. Amirov may be worth more considering he's a mid first round pick. I'd consider Amirov and Liljegren to be A prospects. Both are mid first rounders.

Maybe Amirov + 2nd or Hirvonen + 1st

until 2 days ago Liljegren was the leafs 3rd best D prospect. i know the rumor is leaf fans over rate their prospects but ...

 

[Arthur Morgan]

No reason why Zucker should be as valuable, hasn't shown the same offensive ceiling and makes 50% more on the cap.

You are attempting to use Kapanen's production after the trade, I was referring to his value when he was dealt. In his very best season he hadn't produced any more than Rakell did in his down years.

Either way the Kapanen trade is probably the closest comparable, and that would require a piece more valuable than a 1st coming from a contender.

I understand that Rakell is good and has value. but I dont see how Kapanen is even remotely close to a comparable.
Kap is RFA after his current contract. isnt Rakell UFA?
again I get he has value but I cant see a top prospect + 1st for him

 

[Zegs2sendhelp]

I understand that Rakell is good and has value. but I dont see how Kapanen is even remotely close to a comparable.
Kap is RFA after his current contract. isnt Rakell UFA?
again I get he has value but I cant see a top prospect + 1st for him

I think the main argument when talking with leaf fans is what do you consider a top prospect.... I’ve seen a lot of players take that label. Basically Sandin robertson liljegren amirov niemla have all taken that label.

abramov is more or less bracco 2.0

what does that really leave you with? Hirovinen or sda? Oh and hallander