Le retour des Nordiques Part XVIII: Ça Plane Pour Moi

[Fugu]

Sure wasn't business of hockey-related either.

Sure it is. You guys linked to his retreat from politics and family matters. You think this cannot influence his attention in other matters, like Quebecor. Look, you don't have to agree with me, love him all you like, but I'm going to say what I think. Goes the same for any of the other NHL owners.

 

[Killion]

Sure wasn't business of hockey-related either.

Actually it is SC, tangentially, as one has to wonder and has the right to ask & opine as to whether or not PKP in his departure from Quebecor, taking the lead & stepping up to the plate (like David Thomson for example with Winnipeg behind the scenes) as the face of Quebecs' NHL aspirations hasnt hindered, slowed things down somewhat. Nothing to do with his political beliefs... just that the NHL has always preferred to deal directly with the Financial Engineer as opposed to the Stokers, Conductors & Baggage Handlers which in this case ranges from Brian Mulroney on down. So sure, its perfectly cool, acceptable for you, for anyone to question the commitment level of the central & primary principal in this bid & that includes taking into account his personal, business & political track records. This guy is no love-able Uncle Bill Foley type and I for one who totally 110% support QC have some criticisms to lay at Peladeaus feet over the manner in which this has been played out. He's beyond noticeable in his absence, engagement, and at a time when the City of Quebec & the fans really need him to engage. Seriously. This is one messed up Universe when Vegas can LAP Quebec City. Take the lead like they have... No. I say drop the gloves. You guys get passed over not only am I gunna be pissed at PKP but so too will millions of others and not just in QC. I mean throughout the Province, across Canada & ya even in the States. Dudes off tilting at Windmills, leaving a bid for an NHL franchise in the hands of others? Excuse me? Wheres your head Man? He isnt going to "change the world" as Leader of the anachronistic & outdated PQ... he will as Leader of QC's NHL Charge, not just now but for generations to come. So yes... People have every right to question his priorities. To consider character. If they judge harshly, here, elsewhere, fine. Provided its reasoned & civil? We do not engage in Censorship here at hf.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

A billion dollar corporation. not a man, is trying to buy a team for Quebec City. If THAT bothers the NHL, it is on them, not on PKP.

 

[Burke the Legend]

A billion dollar corporation. not a man, is trying to buy a team for Quebec City. If THAT bothers the NHL, it is on them, not on PKP.

What? He controls the whole thing through class A shares. Quebecor is Peladeau.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

What? He controls the whole thing through class A shares. Quebecor is Peladeau.

He does, but the effort to buy a team isn't strictly his own, that was my point. People have been mandated to see the project through, it isn't a rich guy trying to buy a toy. Acquiring an NHL team is part of a larger long-term business strategy for the firm. If the NHL can't trust professionals and ABSOLUTELY needs to have the owner be highly implicated, that's on them, not Quebecor.

Contrary to the Molsons and their front-man ******** brother Geoff, it isn'T a vanity purchase (well, probably a little, but there are larger business goals behind the move).

 

[powerstuck]

What? He controls the whole thing through class A shares. Quebecor is Peladeau.

The point is...if Peladeau was to die suddenly (which I do not wish), Quebecor would not disappear off the map.

 

[Burke the Legend]

If the NHL can't trust professionals and ABSOLUTELY needs to have the owner be highly implicated, that's on them, not Quebecor.

Seems like it actually is Quebecor's problem if they want a team but are doing a poor job of convincing the NHL to accept.

Maybe the NHL prefers to deal with rich guys instead of corporations? The NFL certainly does. Many fewer legal & contractual complications.

 

[BattleBorn]

Seems like it actually is Quebecor's problem if they want a team but are doing a poor job of convincing the NHL to accept.

Maybe the NHL prefers to deal with rich guys instead of corporations? The NFL certainly does. Many fewer legal & contractual complications.

Rich guys and private companies I'd imagine. Publicly owned companies have a lot of additional stuff to worry about.

 

[Baccus]

Rich guys and private companies I'd imagine. Publicly owned companies have a lot of additional stuff to worry about.

That's an interesting point, would a Quebecor owned NHL team be able to keep its books private as part of a public corporation? Would the NHL really care?

 

[BattleBorn]

That's an interesting point, would a Quebecor owned NHL team be able to keep its books private as part of a public corporation? Would the NHL really care?

I'm sure that is a consideration.

I don't know that it's the open book more than the fact that publicly owned companies are expected to do things that provide the best returns for their shareholders. While QC will likely make money, will it make enough money to warrant at least a $251MM investment from Quebecor? You can purchase the TV rights of a QC team without owning the actual team, so is it worth the additional money to the shareholders to make (let's say) $10MM a year owning a very illiquid asset like the Nordiques?

 

[powerstuck]

Cmon now guys...stop giving NHL extra reasons why to say no to Quebec. It's not like this NO isn't taking super long to formulate already.

Btw, it seems NHL doesn't care dealing with a TV partner publicly owned.

 

[BattleBorn]

Cmon now guys...stop giving NHL extra reasons why to say no to Quebec. It's not like this NO isn't taking super long to formulate already.

Btw, it seems NHL doesn't care dealing with a TV partner publicly owned.

I'm just basing everything on the rumors I trust (25% of them or so) and the business side of things.

I don't think the NHL will say no to QC. I think there may be pushback from the members of the NHL for sure, but if it doesn't happen in QC I think it will have more to do with Quebecor than it will the league. It just doesn't seem to make sense for Quebecor to throw so much money in to a team for relatively small income. They need somebody/somebodies to own 49% of this thing, and finding those people may be the real issue.

 

[powerstuck]

I'm just basing everything on the rumors I trust (25% of them or so) and the business side of things.

I don't think the NHL will say no to QC. I think there may be pushback from the members of the NHL for sure, but if it doesn't happen in QC I think it will have more to do with Quebecor than it will the league. It just doesn't seem to make sense for Quebecor to throw so much money in to a team for relatively small income. They need somebody/somebodies to own 49% of this thing, and finding those people may be the real issue.

Then let me announce you that Quebecor signed its death.

They launched TVA Sport, TVA Sport 2 and signed a $1.2B deal for NHL French Language rights.

They invested $40M in a TV Production studio in an hockey arena that will be used for junior major hockey.

They purchased that arena's naming rights for 20 years.

And they made everyone believe they will be the one group able to bring back the Nordiques...just that one thing is a gamble not even the biggest Vegas gambler would have dared take.

If, somehow that's the outcome...oh boy, there is going to be one company going bankrupt rather quickly.

 

[Fugu]

Then let me announce you that Quebecor signed its death.

They launched TVA Sport, TVA Sport 2 and signed a $1.2B deal for NHL French Language rights.

They invested $40M in a TV Production studio in an hockey arena that will be used for junior major hockey.

They purchased that arena's naming rights for 20 years.

And they made everyone believe they will be the one group able to bring back the Nordiques...just that one thing is a gamble not even the biggest Vegas gambler would have dared take.

If, somehow that's the outcome...oh boy, there is going to be one company going bankrupt rather quickly.

I think the problem is on the NHL side of things, and where they want to expand-- or at least from the mouth of Jacobs and perhaps the ruling class of the league (the big revenue generators). They may view it as oversaturation in the Eastern Conference, which if they do, may be why QC may have to wait like Winnipeg did, when the NHL has no other option.

As Jacobs pointed out, the expansion money only takes a small sting out of the added revenue sharing/transfer, which go on in perpetuity.

 

[BattleBorn]

Then let me announce you that Quebecor signed its death.

They launched TVA Sport, TVA Sport 2 and signed a $1.2B deal for NHL French Language rights.

They invested $40M in a TV Production studio in an hockey arena that will be used for junior major hockey.

They purchased that arena's naming rights for 20 years.

And they made everyone believe they will be the one group able to bring back the Nordiques...just that one thing is a gamble not even the biggest Vegas gambler would have dared take.

If, somehow that's the outcome...oh boy, there is going to be one company going bankrupt rather quickly.

French language rights, TV production, arena advertising to drive people to their broadcasts...all in their core business. They sell media. Like I said, they can purchase the rights to the Nordiques broadcasts, that's also in their core business.

Owning and operating the team is not. They might still do it, but it's outside of their core business and it's a small income opportunity. It's like paying $500MM to purchase commercial real estate and make $10MM annually in rent. That money doesn't disappear, it's just locked up in property, and that same $500MM is best spent somewhere else when you've got a duty to make money for the shareholder.

It could still happen, it might. I hope it does. However, if it doesn't, I think it will have just as much to do with Quebecor as it does the league.

Or I could be completely wrong and the NHL just dislikes QC.

 

[Burke the Legend]

I think the problem is on the NHL side of things, and where they want to expand-- or at least from the mouth of Jacobs and perhaps the ruling class of the league (the big revenue generators). They may view it as oversaturation in the Eastern Conference, which if they do, may be why QC may have to wait like Winnipeg did, when the NHL has no other option.

As Jacobs pointed out, the expansion money only takes a small sting out of the added revenue sharing/transfer, which go on in perpetuity.

How many new NHL hockey fan $ does QC add? $ not into NHL hockey now but would long term if the Nordiques came back? Probably not much...

Versus the same considerations for say Seattle? 3.5 million greater metro population + another 3.5 million the rest of Washington state. Kansas, Houston, Las Vegas?

Like you say, QC will probably get their team eventually, but maybe have to wait longer than some people expect. The NHL bigwigs likely have a medium-long term priority on filling large western USA markets (with an eye on the 2022 TV deal) over smaller Canadian outposts.

 

[Mightygoose]

French language rights, TV production, arena advertising to drive people to their broadcasts...all in their core business. They sell media. Like I said, they can purchase the rights to the Nordiques broadcasts, that's also in their core business.

Owning and operating the team is not. They might still do it, but it's outside of their core business and it's a small income opportunity. It's like paying $500MM to purchase commercial real estate and make $10MM annually in rent. That money doesn't disappear, it's just locked up in property, and that same $500MM is best spent somewhere else when you've got a duty to make money for the shareholder.

It could still happen, it might. I hope it does. However, if it doesn't, I think it will have just as much to do with Quebecor as it does the league.

Or I could be completely wrong and the NHL just dislikes QC.

Lots of possibilities for sure and it's hard to get into the heads of everyone connected with the league.

Wouldn't it be something after all of the speculation on why the NHL may reject Quebec weather it's market size, currency, alignment, PKP's personal issue, saved for relo. or whatever if once the board meets to finally decide something, it ends up being a quick....hey 1 billion without anything going to the players, why not....Vegas and QC in...anti-climatic ending and done...bam!

 

[madhi19]

I'm sure that is a consideration.

I don't know that it's the open book more than the fact that publicly owned companies are expected to do things that provide the best returns for their shareholders. While QC will likely make money, will it make enough money to warrant at least a $251MM investment from Quebecor? You can purchase the TV rights of a QC team without owning the actual team, so is it worth the additional money to the shareholders to make (let's say) $10MM a year owning a very illiquid asset like the Nordiques?

There ways around this. Take the Habs and the Leafs, BCE manage to own a piece of both because it not direct ownership. You own shares in the corporation that own and manage the team and it assets. In the case of Quebecor they likely own 50.1%, smaller shares would be reserved for other interested partners and a front man. Like Tanenbaum in Toronto and Molson in Montreal.

 

[Harry22]

That's an interesting point, would a Quebecor owned NHL team be able to keep its books private as part of a public corporation? Would the NHL really care?

They wouldn't. Every public company has to divulge everything in their financial statements.

There ways around this. Take the Habs and the Leafs, BCE manage to own a piece of both because it not direct ownership. You own shares in the corporation that own and manage the team and it assets. In the case of Quebecor they likely own 50.1%, smaller shares would be reserved for other interested partners and a front man. Like Tanenbaum in Toronto and Molson in Montreal.

If they own 50.1 of the nordiques they will have to consolidate the nordiques in their financial statements. Also in the IFRS, the notion of control is not defined. Clearly Quebecor will control the Nordiques and thus will absolutely have to divulge financial information.

 

[madhi19]

They wouldn't. Every public company has to divulge everything in their financial statements.



If they own 50.1 of the nordiques they will have to consolidate the nordiques in their financial statements. Also in the IFRS, the notion of control is not defined. Clearly Quebecor will control the Nordiques and thus will absolutely have to divulge financial information.

That part is even easier to bypass. QMI could own 30%, Videotron could own 10.1% and another divisions get the other 10%. In fact having PKP be the front man, and directly owning a piece could also be a way to keep everything more or less private. These legal matters probably got settled months if not years before QMO posted their bid for expansion.

 

[GF]

How many new NHL hockey fan $ does QC add? $ not into NHL hockey now but would long term if the Nordiques came back? Probably not much...

Versus the same considerations for say Seattle? 3.5 million greater metro population + another 3.5 million the rest of Washington state. Kansas, Houston, Las Vegas?

By that same logic, how many new NHL hockey fans $ does having 3 teams in NY brings?

Calgary and Edmonton? Tampa Bay and Sunrise?

Seriously, how many new fans did Phoenix bring?

I'll tell you how many fans, about 18,000 every single game + more eyes in front of the TV than Sunrise/Phoenix combined. And all that would benefit a huge TV partner of the NHL.

I don't think people realize just how hockey crazy are people in Quebec.

 

[The Feckless Puck]

Seriously, how many new fans did Phoenix bring?

More than you would apparently give us credit for.

QC will attract plenty of hockey fans, but you're not going to be making a lot of converts to the sport of hockey there - just satisfying existing demand.

 

[voyageur]

By that same logic, how many new NHL hockey fans $ does having 3 teams in NY brings?

Calgary and Edmonton? Tampa Bay and Sunrise?

Seriously, how many new fans did Phoenix bring?

I'll tell you how many fans, about 18,000 every single game + more eyes in front of the TV than Sunrise/Phoenix combined. And all that would benefit a huge TV partner of the NHL.

I don't think people realize just how hockey crazy are people in Quebec.

I think the NHL knows Quebec will make money, lots of it...The problem is that they do not make money for Jacobs concessions. They make Nashville poorer, in the balance. Among others. Their purchasing power (merchandising) will guarantee a significant bump in the salary cap. NHL has too many mediocre markets, and those are more important than appeasing the passion of genuine hockey fans. Sad but true.

 

[kdb209]

They wouldn't. Every public company has to divulge everything in their financial statements.



If they own 50.1 of the nordiques they will have to consolidate the nordiques in their financial statements. Also in the IFRS, the notion of control is not defined. Clearly Quebecor will control the Nordiques and thus will absolutely have to divulge financial information.

They may have to include the bottom line numbers in their financial statements, but they may not have to provide any details.

Comcast's Annual Reports / 10-K filings list Comcast-Spectacor (which owns the Flyers and the Wells Fargo Center) lumped in single line items Corporate and Other Revenues and Corporate and Other Operating Costs and Expenses - with no other breakdowns or details.

 

[Fugu]

I think the NHL knows Quebec will make money, lots of it...The problem is that they do not make money for Jacobs concessions. They make Nashville poorer, in the balance. Among others. Their purchasing power (merchandising) will guarantee a significant bump in the salary cap. NHL has too many mediocre markets, and those are more important than appeasing the passion of genuine hockey fans. Sad but true.

This doesn't make sense. They make Nashville poorer?