Speculation: LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season Part 2

[KingsFan7824]

Random stat, but in overall height, Kings are bottom 6. The teams smaller than them are way tougher though...Minnesota, Montreal, Philly.

If you are going to have smaller players they better score 30 goals or play heavy, not 10 goals. Or you better surround them with bigger players, otherwise they will end up like Durzi, Moore.

Mike Richards was surrounded by the big, real, gritty men of the 2012-2014 Kings era, and had at least two concussions during that time. Pronger, Lindros, big, violent players who would physically punish other hockey players for just existing in their way, had their careers ended by concussions.

If Durzi and Moore are going to get concussions, nobody else is going to be able to stop that. Unless they don't get touched.

What did the 80's have? A lot of enforcers. What did the 80's also have? A ton of violence. Very likely a whole host of "got his bell rung" type concussions too.

Granted, the violence is a lot more fun, it gets the blood boiling, and damn it if it's not a great basis for rivalry, but it doesn't stop concussions.

Click to read more...

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I would take a responsible player with enough size to actually wear down an opponent over a playoff series. Wouldn't care if there was a trade off for points. Even with the points, you have to look at who he has had a chance to play with this season.

I'd prefer to give JAD the opportunity if we are talking about players on the Kings roster.

So you would take what, a Nick Bjugdstad etc over Lizotte?

 

[BigKing]

So you would take what, a Nick Bjugdstad etc over Lizotte?

Without factoring in age, contracts and whatnot...sure. A guy that scores around the same clip but is averaging around two hits a game? Sure. That's just looking at stats which isn't the whole story: I don't pretend to watch a lot of non-Kings hockey.

None of this is to say Lizotte is a bad hockey player. I am concerned, however, that he is starting to get the Dustin Brown treatment RE: drawing penalties. After 2012, the refs didn't buy Brown's shit anymore. The past couple of weeks have seen teams getting annoyed with Lizotte and doing a lot of bitching about him. Conversely, Lizotte does a lot of bitching when he gets called for penalties. Could start seeing a stop to Lizotte drawing penalties simply because he's getting bullied by bigger players. When one of his biggest strengths is drawing penalties, that needs to keep being a thing or else he starts to become a liability.

Looks like he is 3rd on the team in minor penalties taken behind Fiala and Danault but he plays at least five minutes a night less than those guys.

 

[Peter James Bond II]

I don't know how all of: Vilardi, Korpisalo, Gavrikov can be signed.
I bet if Blake knew Korpisalo and Gavrikov were both able to be acquired, he
would have told Moore's agent to wait until after the season. His 4 and Iafallo's 4
as middle 6's, will make it hard to get deals done for those 3...and yes, Cal's is the worst.
Moving Walker will not be enough, it seems. Who would take Arvy? Would probably piss of
Phil, but we have seen this is a business.

If Gabe makes it to apx 27 goals, Gavrikov plays like he has and Korpisalo takes over #1,
all will be paid; and if the Kings win 1-3 rounds and they are all key in that as well.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Without factoring in age, contracts and whatnot...sure. A guy that scores around the same clip but is averaging around two hits a game? Sure. That's just looking at stats which isn't the whole story: I don't pretend to watch a lot of non-Kings hockey.

None of this is to say Lizotte is a bad hockey player. I am concerned, however, that he is starting to get the Dustin Brown treatment RE: drawing penalties. After 2012, the refs didn't buy Brown's shit anymore. The past couple of weeks have seen teams getting annoyed with Lizotte and doing a lot of bitching about him. Conversely, Lizotte does a lot of bitching when he gets called for penalties. Could start seeing a stop to Lizotte drawing penalties simply because he's getting bullied by bigger players. When one of his biggest strengths is drawing penalties, that needs to keep being a thing or else he starts to become a liability.

Looks like he is 3rd on the team in minor penalties taken behind Fiala and Danault but he plays at least five minutes a night less than those guys.

By making that change, you are giving up 10 goals, right off the bat.....if the worry is refs might not like him anymore.....I don't know how you make a change based on that....if it's he can't withstand the playoffs, he did last year.....he's withstood NHL hockey since he started....

If it's he's small and I don't like him.....that seems to be a personal issue.....as it stands, Lizotte is probably one of the best bottom 6 players in the league.

 

[KINGS17]

Without factoring in age, contracts and whatnot...sure. A guy that scores around the same clip but is averaging around two hits a game? Sure. That's just looking at stats which isn't the whole story: I don't pretend to watch a lot of non-Kings hockey.

None of this is to say Lizotte is a bad hockey player. I am concerned, however, that he is starting to get the Dustin Brown treatment RE: drawing penalties. After 2012, the refs didn't buy Brown's shit anymore. The past couple of weeks have seen teams getting annoyed with Lizotte and doing a lot of bitching about him. Conversely, Lizotte does a lot of bitching when he gets called for penalties. Could start seeing a stop to Lizotte drawing penalties simply because he's getting bullied by bigger players. When one of his biggest strengths is drawing penalties, that needs to keep being a thing or else he starts to become a liability.

Looks like he is 3rd on the team in minor penalties taken behind Fiala and Danault but he plays at least five minutes a night less than those guys.

I don't know how you can say this. Brown was getting violated out there every night.

 

[Schmooley]

By making that change, you are giving up 10 goals, right off the bat.....if the worry is refs might not like him anymore.....I don't know how you make a change based on that....if it's he can't withstand the playoffs, he did last year.....he's withstood NHL hockey since he started....

If it's he's small and I don't like him.....that seems to be a personal issue.....as it stands, Lizotte is probably one of the best bottom 6 players in the league.

He is for sure one of the best 4th line centers. But among 3rd line centers he is not.
Coyle, Backlund, Staal, Eller, Domi, Bjugstad, Lundell, Sissons, Granlund, Haula, Cizikas, Chytil, Gourde, Schenn, Paul, Stephenson, Strome, Lowry.
Thats a lot of good 3rd line centers and Lizotte holds his own with that list but he is not the best.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

He is for sure one of the best 4th line centers. But among 3rd line centers he is not.
Coyle, Backlund, Staal, Eller, Domi, Bjugstad, Lundell, Sissons, Granlund, Haula, Cizikas, Chytil, Gourde, Schenn, Paul, Stephenson, Strome, Lowry.
Thats a lot of good 3rd line centers and Lizotte holds his own with that list but he is not the best.

Define 3rd line.....I'm using TOI as a barometer.....what do you think a 3rd line C is averaging ice time

 

[chris kontos]

Lizotte v lowry would be amusing. Also coyle

 

[bmr]

I don't know how all of: Vilardi, Korpisalo, Gavrikov can be signed.
I bet if Blake knew Korpisalo and Gavrikov were both able to be acquired, he
would have told Moore's agent to wait until after the season. His 4 and Iafallo's 4
as middle 6's, will make it hard to get deals done for those 3...and yes, Cal's is the worst.
Moving Walker will not be enough, it seems. Who would take Arvy? Would probably piss of
Phil, but we have seen this is a business.

If Gabe makes it to apx 27 goals, Gavrikov plays like he has and Korpisalo takes over #1,
all will be paid; and if the Kings win 1-3 rounds and they are all key in that as well.

Blake will figure out a way. There's a couple trades he can likely pull off that include expiring or close to expiring contracts with the right assets going the other way.

 

[Schmooley]

Define 3rd line.....I'm using TOI as a barometer.....what do you think a 3rd line C is averaging ice time

Im not sure about TOI was just thinking how teams line up down the middle and thats what I came up with. I think Domi is 3c in Dallas but wasnt in Chicago and same with Granlund now in Pitt. So their TOI may be skewed and some of those like Chytil get powerplay time. Most probably kill penalties so that amount of extra time would be a wash.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Im not sure about TOI was just thinking how teams line up down the middle and thats what I came up with. I think Domi is 3c in Dallas but wasnt in Chicago and same with Granlund now in Pitt. So their TOI may be skewed and some of those like Chytil get powerplay time. Most probably kill penalties so that amount of extra time would be a wash.

Most of those guys are 16-19, TOI, Lizotte is 12:52.....but he's outscoring the majority on that list.....exceptions are Domi, Schenn, Chytil, Coyle etc.....and all of those have PP time...

I will repeat what I said, Lizotte is one of the best bottom six in the league....with all positions, under 15 min of TOI he's 10th in the league in points, under 16 min he's tied for 29th, and under 17, he's tied for 59th......all of those above him have power play points with the exception of 4 (Coyle was a surprise there) and almost all of them have more TOI with the exception of Sprong.....

I think people see Lizotte and go eww small...without actually watching him play, and what he does, relative to everyone else in his position in the league

 

[BigKing]

By making that change, you are giving up 10 goals, right off the bat.....if the worry is refs might not like him anymore.....I don't know how you make a change based on that....if it's he can't withstand the playoffs, he did last year.....he's withstood NHL hockey since he started....

If it's he's small and I don't like him.....that seems to be a personal issue.....as it stands, Lizotte is probably one of the best bottom 6 players in the league.

Bjugstad has 14 goals in less games than Lizotte while not getting minutes with Kevin Fiala at times. Not sure how I'm giving up 10 goals? Even then, my saying yes to Bjugstad is under the premise he is a responsible player that isn't going to hurt me, can chip in offensively but also dish out some punishment that matters in a long playoff series. It's not Bjugstad specifically but rather a type of player.

As for Lizotte's playoff resume, I know there were some fancy stats used for his line earlier but here are the highlights for him personally:

7 games played - 8 hits/-1/3 minor penalties taken/1 point.

That sure as shit can be improved upon. Total non-factor.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Bjugstad has 14 goals in less games than Lizotte while not getting minutes with Kevin Fiala at times. Not sure how I'm giving up 10 goals? Even then, my saying yes to Bjugstad is under the premise he is a responsible player that isn't going to hurt me, can chip in offensively but also dish out some punishment that matters in a long playoff series. It's not Bjugstad specifically but rather a type of player.

As for Lizotte's playoff resume, I know there were some fancy stats used for his line earlier but here are the highlights for him personally:

7 games played - 8 hits/-1/3 minor penalties taken/1 point.

That sure as shit can be improved upon. Total non-factor.

Actually 5 goals, I misread it...simple points = goals, be it actual goals or assists, Lizotte is outscoring Bjugstad.........I get it, it's not the player (Bjugstad) himself, it's others like him etc....

I like production myself, and we get more with Lizotte and his 12 minutes of Ice time, than nearly any other bottom sixer with that ice time...

 

[bouncesonly]

I don't know how all of: Vilardi, Korpisalo, Gavrikov can be signed.
I bet if Blake knew Korpisalo and Gavrikov were both able to be acquired, he
would have told Moore's agent to wait until after the season. His 4 and Iafallo's 4
as middle 6's, will make it hard to get deals done for those 3...and yes, Cal's is the worst.
Moving Walker will not be enough, it seems. Who would take Arvy? Would probably piss of
Phil, but we have seen this is a business.

If Gabe makes it to apx 27 goals, Gavrikov plays like he has and Korpisalo takes over #1,
all will be paid; and if the Kings win 1-3 rounds and they are all key in that as well.

Keep Arvy. Trade either Moore or Iafallo, along with Walker and Durzi.

 

[Herby]

Lizotte stays in the lineup until someone forces him out. As of now he’s outperformed the other centers who were taken with high picks and had higher expectations than the UDFA. So until Kupari, Turcotte or JAD actually outplay him or they bring someone in this summer to replace him, he has earned that spot.

 

[BigBrown]

Funny how just a year or two ago we seemed to have too many center prospects, Blake only drafting centers became sort of a joke.
So far none have panned out, at least not in that position, for various reasons. Right now Lizotte is the best option where he is but in a perfect world he's the motor of the fourth line.

 

[Statto]

Lizotte stays in the lineup until someone forces him out. As of now he’s outperformed the other centers who were taken with high picks and had higher expectations than the UDFA. So until Kupari, Turcotte or JAD actually outplay him or they bring someone in this summer to replace him, he has earned that spot.

Agreed. Before 21/22 I very much considered him a placeholder. However he raised his game last year and has taken another step this year. No I don’t think he’s a perfect 3c but he’s an outstanding 4c. Ideally someone forces him to be the 4c, but until someone steps up (or QB goes back to the middle next season - I suspect) he’s earned his spot in the depth chart.

 

[BigKing]

Actually 5 goals, I misread it...simple points = goals, be it actual goals or assists, Lizotte is outscoring Bjugstad.........I get it, it's not the player (Bjugstad) himself, it's others like him etc....

I like production myself, and we get more with Lizotte and his 12 minutes of Ice time, than nearly any other bottom sixer with that ice time...

Point do not equal goals. Goals are goals: points are goals and assists. Separate trophies for leader in points and goals. Goals are more important than assists, IMO. Regardless, Lizotte is outscoring him but it is in more games and on a much higher scoring team. Regardless part two is I would give up five points over 60 games for a lot more physicality from the same position. Not that Bjugstad is my guy but he's also taken far fewer minor penalties.

Lizotte stays in the lineup until someone forces him out. As of now he’s outperformed the other centers who were taken with high picks and had higher expectations than the UDFA. So until Kupari, Turcotte or JAD actually outplay him or they bring someone in this summer to replace him, he has earned that spot.

This aligns with what I am saying since I'm not saying Lizotte sucks: I just want an upgrade on him and a lot of it has to do with the makeup of this Kings roster. The upgrade could actually be a little less in total points but more of something the Kings lack, i.e. any semblance of a punishing forecheck.

The argument about the actual existence of "playoff type players" and everything can be had without resolution but the fact we can all agree on is that the physical side of the game increases: especially in Round 1. The Kings left that series last year pretty beat up while Edmonton left the series so beat up that they scored 9 goals a game in Round 2. It is a serious disadvantage over the course of a series to have a forward group that generally passes up on hitting opportunities and prefers to forecheck stick first v. sometimes just plastering someone to plaster them.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Point do not equal goals. Goals are goals: points are goals and assists. Separate trophies for leader in points and goals. Goals are more important than assists, IMO. Regardless, Lizotte is outscoring him but it is in more games and on a much higher scoring team. Regardless part two is I would give up five points over 60 games for a lot more physicality from the same position. Not that Bjugstad is my guy but he's also taken far fewer minor penalties.

This aligns with what I am saying since I'm not saying Lizotte sucks: I just want an upgrade on him and a lot of it has to do with the makeup of this Kings roster. The upgrade could actually be a little less in total points but more of something the Kings lack, i.e. any semblance of a punishing forecheck.

The argument about the actual existence of "playoff type players" and everything can be had without resolution but the fact we can all agree on is that the physical side of the game increases: especially in Round 1. The Kings left that series last year pretty beat up while Edmonton left the series so beat up that they scored 9 goals a game in Round 2. It is a serious disadvantage over the course of a series to have a forward group that generally passes up on hitting opportunities and prefers to forecheck stick first v. sometimes just plastering someone to plaster them.

You literally can not have an assist without a goal.........so when a player has 50 points....and you are comparing with a player that was 20 points...who are you going to take?

The plastering them to plaster them is being edged out of the game......look how effective Kassian, Martin, Reaves has been this year....

 

[Rick Knickleback]

Lizotte has skated a lot at ES with Fiala and Vilardi, hasn't he? That's certainly helped his stats a bit. Still wouldn't mind seeing Kupari in that role.

Kupari's deployment reminds me a little of Vilardi's last year and Bjornfot's this year. Not a whole lot of time and space given, but they do pretty well with it, yet somehow aren't given the same leeway as the more established player with a lower ceiling.

 

[bmr]

I really want to see Moore back with Danault and Arvidsson. I think Fiala is a better fit with Lizotte and Vilardi. That kind puts Iafallo into a tough spot on the 4th line. But....if we are rolling 4 really good lines, maybe it's not that big of a deal.

 

[YAYSAY]

Keep Arvy. Trade either Moore or Iafallo, along with Walker and Durzi.

I don't think they'll keep Arvy, and not sure that they should. He's good and produces well, but he's also the oldest and will be the most expensive out of those listed. He's gonna want as much term as he can get and not sure it's in the Kings best interest to sign him to that

 

[Bandit]

Lizotte stays in the lineup until someone forces him out. As of now he’s outperformed the other centers who were taken with high picks and had higher expectations than the UDFA. So until Kupari, Turcotte or JAD actually outplay him or they bring someone in this summer to replace him, he has earned that spot.

Turcotte is finished. No point in even bring him up at this point.

JAD has played well when he’s been in but is a victim of Todd’s “wheel of shafting a rookie”.

In a vacuum I like almost every player we have but something needs to give. Danault is a 3C on a contender. Kopitar should be transitioning to 2C at this stage of his career, but that’s gonna require Byfield to step up to 1C because Vilardi clearly isn’t gonna be a c at the nhl level and there’s no one else in contention.

Moore and Iafallo are redundant and if I’m choosing I’m choosing Moore. Arvidsson needs to go to make room on the second line so Vilardi doesn’t waste away being centered by Blake f***ing lizotte. Again nothing against Lizzo. I like his game but he shouldn’t be centering our second best goal scorer.

Then there’s Kaliyev who needs offensive minutes but instead is eating Kinder Bueno in the press box. What a shit show.

And speaking of shit, there’s a ton of shit or get off the pot in this org. Either commit to some of these younger guys or trade em. All this dicking around is just gonna leave Blake holding his dick while everyone else points and laughs.

 

[BigKing]

You literally can not have an assist without a goal.........so when a player has 50 points....and you are comparing with a player that was 20 points...who are you going to take?

The plastering them to plaster them is being edged out of the game......look how effective Kassian, Martin, Reaves has been this year....

If there is a five point difference and the one with five less points has five more goals but averages at least two hits a game and takes far fewer penalties then I'll take the latter.

Forgetting the hitting and other stuff, I'd take the five less points but five more goals in a vacuum. Goals are harder to accumulate than points. Because some guy picks up a bunch of Modry Points (second assists after making a simple pass to Ziggy Palffy (Fiala) who then does something amazing) doesn't mean he's the easy choice if the difference in points v. goals is close. Of course, if Bjugstad or any player in the comparison has a bunch of ENG then that would change things but, in general, more weight is given to goals.

Pretty sure that is how GMs look at these things as well when it comes to contracts. The assist doesn't happen without a goal but a goal can happen without an assist.