Kitchener Rangers 2021-22 Season Thread (Part 2)

[EvenSteven]

Players like McDonnell, Valade and Petizian who used to be the workhorses have become the top players and they know it. And for whatever reason lose the mentality that they had when they were trying to get to the role they are in now.

These guys may be our top players, but, are they really the top quality players one would expect to have if you are contending for a championship? How do they compare to Ranger championship contenders in the past? Let’s look at the top six forwards from ‘03, ‘08, ‘10, ‘18, even ‘20.

‘03:
Roy, Campbell, Richards, O’Nabigon, Kanko, one of Clarkson/McGrath.

‘08:
Azevedo, Halischuk, Spaling, Duco, Kadri, Boedker.

‘10:
Skinner, Morin, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Akeson, Tipoff.

‘18:
Sherwood, Smith, Brown, Mascherin, Bunnaman, Hugg.

‘20:
Meireles, Hawel, Yantsis, Damiani, Noel, Petizian.

Today:
Pinelli, McDonnell, Valade, Serpa, Petizian, Fishman.

I know that group from today is pre-trade deadline. But, even if Fishman were healthy, I have a hard time putting that group of six anywhere close to the preceding groups of six who went at least to the third round if not deeper. (I’m supposing that 2020 team may have gone to the third round).

Once you factor in that we would only be able to add one stud to that six at the deadline based on our thin asset base, that top six group is not that of a contending team. We have some quality there. But not near enough of it.

Take Valade for instance. As a first round pick, he has been underwhelming. Could he be comparable as a first rounder to Brent Pederson? On a contending team in 2015, the Oshawa Generals (where we dealt him) he played bottom six minutes. If we could compare the two, I suspect that today’s Reid Valade, and I understand this is early, would be among the bottom six on a top contending team this year.

 

[Billyjack]

These guys may be our top players, but, are they really the top quality players one would expect to have if you are contending for a championship? How do they compare to Ranger championship contenders in the past? Let’s look at the top six forwards from ‘03, ‘08, ‘10, ‘18, even ‘20.

‘03:
Roy, Campbell, Richards, O’Nabigon, Kanko, one of Clarkson/McGrath.

‘08:
Azevedo, Halischuk, Spaling, Duco, Kadri, Tregunna.

‘10:
Skinner, Morin, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Akeson, Tipoff.

‘18:
Sherwood, Smith, Brown, Mascherin, Bunnaman, Hugg.

‘20:
Meireles, Hawel, Yantsis, Damiani, Noel, Petizian.

Today:
Pinelli, McDonnell, Valade, Serpa, Petizian, Fishman.

I know that group from today is pre-trade deadline. But, even if Fishman were healthy, I have a hard time putting that group of six anywhere close to the preceding groups of six who went at least to the third round if not deeper. (I’m supposing that 2020 team may have gone to the third round).

Once you factor in that we would only be able to add one stud to that six at the deadline based on our thin asset base, that top six group is not that of a contending team. We have some quality there. But not near enough of it.

Take Valade for instance. As a first round pick, he has been underwhelming. Could he be comparable as a first rounder to Brent Pederson? On a contending team in 2015, the Oshawa Generals (where we dealt him) he played bottom six minutes. If we could compare the two, I suspect that today’s Reid Valade, and I understand this is early, would be among the bottom six on a top contending team this year.

Bang on, not a contender. maybe next year if older players are dealt

 

[GeoBlue]

These guys may be our top players, but, are they really the top quality players one would expect to have if you are contending for a championship? How do they compare to Ranger championship contenders in the past? Let’s look at the top six forwards from ‘03, ‘08, ‘10, ‘18, even ‘20.

‘03:
Roy, Campbell, Richards, O’Nabigon, Kanko, one of Clarkson/McGrath.

‘08:
Azevedo, Halischuk, Spaling, Duco, Kadri, Tregunna.

‘10:
Skinner, Morin, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Akeson, Tipoff.

‘18:
Sherwood, Smith, Brown, Mascherin, Bunnaman, Hugg.

‘20:
Meireles, Hawel, Yantsis, Damiani, Noel, Petizian.

Today:
Pinelli, McDonnell, Valade, Serpa, Petizian, Fishman.

I know that group from today is pre-trade deadline. But, even if Fishman were healthy, I have a hard time putting that group of six anywhere close to the preceding groups of six who went at least to the third round if not deeper. (I’m supposing that 2020 team may have gone to the third round).

Once you factor in that we would only be able to add one stud to that six at the deadline based on our thin asset base, that top six group is not that of a contending team. We have some quality there. But not near enough of it.

Take Valade for instance. As a first round pick, he has been underwhelming. Could he be comparable as a first rounder to Brent Pederson? On a contending team in 2015, the Oshawa Generals (where we dealt him) he played bottom six minutes. If we could compare the two, I suspect that today’s Reid Valade, and I understand this is early, would be among the bottom six on a top contending team this year.

Awesome comparison! You can see why 2003 was a winner. You need 6 standouts plus. Makes you wonder what could have been in 2020 as Noel was just coming on when the pandemic hit. Meireles finishing his junior career with a 6 pointer in Guelph. And Ingham backstopping!

 

[EvenSteven]

Fixed my ‘08 top six. Forgot about Boedker. Tregunna out. Boedker in.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

These guys may be our top players, but, are they really the top quality players one would expect to have if you are contending for a championship? How do they compare to Ranger championship contenders in the past? Let’s look at the top six forwards from ‘03, ‘08, ‘10, ‘18, even ‘20.

‘03:
Roy, Campbell, Richards, O’Nabigon, Kanko, one of Clarkson/McGrath.

‘08:
Azevedo, Halischuk, Spaling, Duco, Kadri, Boedker.

‘10:
Skinner, Morin, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Akeson, Tipoff.

‘18:
Sherwood, Smith, Brown, Mascherin, Bunnaman, Hugg.

‘20:
Meireles, Hawel, Yantsis, Damiani, Noel, Petizian.

Today:
Pinelli, McDonnell, Valade, Serpa, Petizian, Fishman.

I know that group from today is pre-trade deadline. But, even if Fishman were healthy, I have a hard time putting that group of six anywhere close to the preceding groups of six who went at least to the third round if not deeper. (I’m supposing that 2020 team may have gone to the third round).

Once you factor in that we would only be able to add one stud to that six at the deadline based on our thin asset base, that top six group is not that of a contending team. We have some quality there. But not near enough of it.

Take Valade for instance. As a first round pick, he has been underwhelming. Could he be comparable as a first rounder to Brent Pederson? On a contending team in 2015, the Oshawa Generals (where we dealt him) he played bottom six minutes. If we could compare the two, I suspect that today’s Reid Valade, and I understand this is early, would be among the bottom six on a top contending team this year.

Coming in, I think everyone would've suspected Valade, McDonnell, Pinelli and Petizian would be 4 of 6 that could be comparable to some of the other good teams the Rangers have put out. Serpa has been a pleasant surprise, Valade has been the opposite. 6 points in 10 games with 3 of those 6 coming in 1 game.

The lack of a 20-21 season has really hindered what we were to expect coming into this season. It should've been like an 18-19 where we for sure know the team isn't going to compete, but we get to see how the guys who were in limited roles can perform as the top guys. But, with the pandemic, it's all of a sudden the last year of Xhekaj, Petizian, possibly McDonnell and Cajan. With some solid pieces around, MM probably thinks this is a competitive team.

While Pinelli, McDonnell, Serpa and Petizian have been good, it's not quite the magic that Damiani, Meireles, Hugg, Garreffa and Yantsis brought when they got their "promotions". I don't see any 50 goal scorers or near-100 point players. I'm not saying that is a reasonable expectation either, but we were sold on the returning players from that 19-20 taking massive steps over an 18 month offseason. The rookies haven't been terrific either. Had we known all this last season we could've collectively tempered our expectations for this years team.

At this point, I'd say get what you can for Petizian, Xhekaj and McDonnell in January. I know McDonnell could realistically be back next season, but because of that he probably holds the highest trade value on this team of the vets outside of Pinelli. And with their current draft cupboard, him being back is not a smart bet to make.

This team (through 10 games) hasn't really shown much. I thought some of the returnees would progress more than they did. Cajan and Parsons have been the only reason some of those losses weren't by double digits. They don't look very driven at all. You can usually determine by the mid-2nd period whether they're going to win or lose.

 

[GeoBlue]

Coming in, I think everyone would've suspected Valade, McDonnell, Pinelli and Petizian would be 4 of 6 that could be comparable to some of the other good teams the Rangers have put out. Serpa has been a pleasant surprise, Valade has been the opposite. 6 points in 10 games with 3 of those 6 coming in 1 game.

The lack of a 20-21 season has really hindered what we were to expect coming into this season. It should've been like an 18-19 where we for sure know the team isn't going to compete, but we get to see how the guys who were in limited roles can perform as the top guys. But, with the pandemic, it's all of a sudden the last year of Xhekaj, Petizian, possibly McDonnell and Cajan. With some solid pieces around, MM probably thinks this is a competitive team.

While Pinelli, McDonnell, Serpa and Petizian have been good, it's not quite the magic that Damiani, Meireles, Hugg, Garreffa and Yantsis brought when they got their "promotions". I don't see any 50 goal scorers or near-100 point players. I'm not saying that is a reasonable expectation either, but we were sold on the returning players from that 19-20 taking massive steps over an 18 month offseason. The rookies haven't been terrific either. Had we known all this last season we could've collectively tempered our expectations for this years team.

At this point, I'd say get what you can for Petizian, Xhekaj and McDonnell in January. I know McDonnell could realistically be back next season, but because of that he probably holds the highest trade value on this team of the vets outside of Pinelli. And with their current draft cupboard, him being back is not a smart bet to make.

This team (through 10 games) hasn't really shown much. I thought some of the returnees would progress more than they did. Cajan and Parsons have been the only reason some of those losses weren't by double digits. They don't look very driven at all. You can usually determine by the mid-2nd period whether they're going to win or lose.

At this point of the year, Cajan looks like the only player that has any significant value. We really need to get Petizian and McDonnell going in order to get anything significant for them. And X-man to stay out of the penalty box!

 

[EvenSteven]

At this point of the year, Cajan looks like the only player that has any significant value. We really need to get Petizian and McDonnell going in order to get anything significant for them. And X-man to stay out of the penalty box!

Barrie is looking for goaltending. Everyone is pointing towards Lennox in Saginaw. But he’d be expensive. Could Cajan be a cheaper option?

Barrie has two imports. Would they send ‘03 D-Cholach plus a pick or two our way to close the deal?

 

[Coaches Coroner]

At this point of the year, Cajan looks like the only player that has any significant value. We really need to get Petizian and McDonnell going in order to get anything significant for them. And X-man to stay out of the penalty box!

Even without a massive start offensively, Mcdonnel holds a bunch of value. PPG through 10, aggressive on the puck without the puck, physical etc. Not worried about getting good value for him.

 

[Tim Wallach]

These guys may be our top players, but, are they really the top quality players one would expect to have if you are contending for a championship? How do they compare to Ranger championship contenders in the past? Let’s look at the top six forwards from ‘03, ‘08, ‘10, ‘18, even ‘20.

‘03:
Roy, Campbell, Richards, O’Nabigon, Kanko, one of Clarkson/McGrath.

‘08:
Azevedo, Halischuk, Spaling, Duco, Kadri, Boedker.

‘10:
Skinner, Morin, MacKinnon, Landeskog, Akeson, Tipoff.

‘18:
Sherwood, Smith, Brown, Mascherin, Bunnaman, Hugg.

‘20:
Meireles, Hawel, Yantsis, Damiani, Noel, Petizian.

Today:
Pinelli, McDonnell, Valade, Serpa, Petizian, Fishman.

To me, this also highlights how good DeBoer was at creating pro prospects out of fringe players. His tenure was the last time we had anything close to competing with the London Knights model of pure, linear development throughout the lineup.

 

[OHLFan90]

To me, this also highlights how good DeBoer was at creating pro prospects out of fringe players. His tenure was the last time we had anything close to competing with the London Knights model of pure, linear development throughout the lineup.

I don't think we give enough credit for that.

I never thought about that until now but that was very true.

Off the top of my head Kevin Henderson really stands out.

Seams more there was an emphasis on development during that time. Your 1st rounder would come in and it was pretty typical to see them produce. Now your luck if you get 5 or 6 that produce well (25+ points) in their 16 year old season.

 

[rangersblues]

I don't think we give enough credit for that.

I never thought about that until now but that was very true.

Off the top of my head Kevin Henderson really stands out.

Seams more there was an emphasis on development during that time. Your 1st rounder would come in and it was pretty typical to see them produce. Now your luck if you get 5 or 6 that produce well (25+ points) in their 16 year old season.

I've thought about it since 2011. I was hoping MM might bring some of the DeBoer magic after taking over in 2019 but the jury's still out.

I really like the phrase Tim Wallach used - pure linear development. Describes it perfectly.

 

[OHLFan90]

I've thought about it since 2011. I was hoping MM might bring some of the DeBoer magic after taking over in 2019 but the jury's still out.

I really like the phrase Tim Wallach used - pure linear development. Describes it perfectly.

Yeah i am willing to give MM more time because he seams to have more vision than anyone who followed PD. But I'm not sure if he even has the time. In his short amount of time he has shown value and im sure he's on a fast track to the NHL.

 

[Buttsy]

Yeah i am willing to give MM more time because he seams to have more vision than anyone who followed PD. But I'm not sure if he even has the time. In his short amount of time he has shown value and im sure he's on a fast track to the NHL.

I think MM as you call him is a sharp hockey guy from a GM perspective. He seems to scout and draft well and any trades he has made he seems to make out ok on. I do believe the OHL and generally hockey dictates that the GM and Coach be separate individuals. Little surprised he didn’t fill the coach’s slot coming out of the pandemic? But it’s still very early in a very weird time in the OHL.

 

[HockeyPops]

Mike is still getting his feet wet in the coaching world. Junior hockey is the only place he will be able to continue with that until he has a lot more track record in coaching. I can see him staying at junior longer to get that experience before making the jump.

 

[OHLFan90]

Mike is still getting his feet wet in the coaching world. Junior hockey is the only place he will be able to continue with that until he has a lot more track record in coaching. I can see him staying at junior longer to get that experience before making the jump.

Mike Van Ryn was just getting his feet wet as well and he got a call pretty quickly.

I agree with you for the most part but he's clearly talented enough to offer something at a higher level.

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Mike Van Ryn was just getting his feet wet as well and he got a call pretty quickly.

I agree with you for the most part but he's clearly talented enough to offer something at a higher level.

Van Ryn seemed to be ok with taking a staff job and would have more connections to guys in front offices as a former NHLer. MM is on track to be a recuitable asset by some form of pro-team at some point, but depending what he can build as a head coach/GM he could potentially slot into a bigger role when it's time to make the jump to the next level.

 

[K2]

MM is on track to be a recuitable asset by some form of pro-team at some point, but depending what he can build as a head coach/GM he could potentially slot into a bigger role when it's time to make the jump to the next level.

Had MM's killer turnaround season where he took over from McKee concluded with a deep run or fairytale cup win, he'd be on the radar all over the show. That's not forgotten but he'll need to keep building a resume for a while to step up when current next-gen guys like Dubas flounder their way out the door.

DeBoer and Spott may well have been as good as it gets in Jr and were certainly bright outliers beyond the rink as well. I'd go out on a limb to say that picking and coaching 16 year old kids a decade+ later quite likely isn't entirely the same task. IMO, having MM replace Murray as GM here was night and day as was MM replacing Jay at the time and part of that is his understanding of current generation players.

Little surprised he didn’t fill the coach’s slot coming out of the pandemic?

Maybe next year. We're fiscally stymied after the long break as a non-profit eroding away our limited reserves. Need to get back to a full house every Friday & banking a couple post season rounds gate to be confident enough to hire anyone with some credentials IMO.

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

I'm not the coach, but I want the Rangers to try a top 6 of:

Sop*-Pinelli-McDonnell
Valade-Petizian-Serpa

*Doesn't have to be Sop, just whoever they see as the 6th forward which to date would be him.

The 2nd line has been a mess besides about 2 games. Valade, Petizian and Serpa, as we have seen, are much more dependant on the players surrounding them than Pinelli and McDonnell. I don't think anyone would question that. Doing this would allow those 3 to feed off of each other while Pinelli and McDonnell are good enough that I think they could drive that line with any of the 12 forwards.

The power play is also bottom 5 in the league. Petizian isn't a power play type player IMO. He skates fast and hard which is great but it doesn't add much to the PP. I'd like to see them go:

Valade
Serpa-McDonnell-Pinelli
Schmidt

Valade net front on PP1. He was there a bit in 19-20 and isn't afraid to get in there. Main reason I have him there is to just get him going. With those other 4 there he's bound to get plenty of chances to put away some garbage. McDonnell or Serpa are interchangeable on the left side and bumper positions.

 

[nelli27]

A captain at 18, "special" Francesco Pinelli ready to lead Kitchener Rangers into OHL season - LA Kings Insider

 

[GeoBlue]

Anyone hear anything about the status of Motew's injury? I know he will not be back any time soon but is it season ending? Will it require surgery? And "what" specifically got injured? Josh Brown had some doctor reports last week but let it as "undetermined".

 

[Tim Wallach]

Anyone hear anything about the status of Motew's injury? I know he will not be back any time soon but is it season ending? Will it require surgery? And "what" specifically got injured? Josh Brown had some doctor reports last week but let it as "undetermined".

Latest I heard was “not too serious” and that he won’t play this weekend but hasn’t yet been ruled out for games after that.

I also missed the interview today but apparently MM told 570 that he almost made a trade yesterday. Interesting.

Also, no Andrew Leblanc tonight.

 

[Ward Cornell]

Latest I heard was “not too serious” and that he won’t play this weekend but hasn’t yet been ruled out for games after that.

I also missed the interview today but apparently MM told 570 that he almost made a trade yesterday. Interesting.

Also, no Andrew Leblanc tonight.

Motew has gone back home to Chicago to recover so I suspect it will be a while.

 

[Tim Wallach]

Motew has gone back home to Chicago to recover so I suspect it will be a while.

yeah, that doesn’t sound as promising

 

[MatthewsMoustache]

I've heard week to week on Motew. Players usually do go home if they aren't required to be with the team. Obviously different circumstances given that he lives in Chicago though.

Why no A. LeBlanc tonight?

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Not sure how you kill that many penalties effectively, then blow neutral zone coverage so bad that the other teams best players gets 2 free breakaways.
Mckee era style collapse in the 2nd, lets see what team responds in the 3rd.

edit: A lot of soft passes in zone clearing chances leading to turnovers, some from veterans like Petizan which you can't have. Valade continue's to look like he hasn't improved much in the last year and a half.