Kings Offense

[GoldenBearHockey]

Hey guys,

Did a bit of research, and found some interesting stats, starting from the game on the 2nd of January against St. Louis through to Columbus.

All this talk about LA having an anemic offense, and not going to the middle etc, looking at these stats makes me wonder what you guys define as offense.

Offense is not about scoring goals, it's about generating chances, the Kings problem isn't that they aren't generating chances, it's that they aren't finishing their chances.

The following is a list of shots from the house, that the Kings have gotten, if you don't know what the house is, draw a line from the post, to the faceoff dot, to the top of the circle, across to the other top, down to the dot, back the other post, that is the house, that is where you want most if not all your shots coming from,

1-2 STL - 16 Shots from the House
1-4- VAN - 27 shots from the house
1-7 MIN - 18 shots from the house
1-9 BOS - 18 shots from the house
1-11 DET - 32 shots from the house
1-13 VAN - 13 shots from the house
1-16 STL - 19 shots from the house
1-18 DET 19 shots from the house
1-20 BOS 15 shots from the house
1-21 CBS 22 shots from the house

As you can see, they are generating quality shots, they aren't finishing on them, I need to go back further and see what the percentage is of total shots, and then see how many turned into goals, but for now, those who are saying they don't generate offense, I would love to hear your definition offense.

Click to read more...

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I bet those are all Jeff Carter.

 

[CNS]

Quality shots don't mean jack **** if you can't finish. It's shocking thus group of players can pull such beautiful women with zero ability to finish, save Carts and Toffoli sorta.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Quality shots don't mean jack **** if you can't finish. It's shocking thus group of players can pull such beautiful women with zero ability to finish, save Carts and Toffoli sorta.

Hence why I said generating offense is not the problem like so many people think it is, it's the ability to finish that is the problem, and that is something only the player can snap out of....it's not a system issue.

 

[Herby]

This is news to anyone?

The Kings problem is they simply lack the quantity of skilled players that their western conference foes have. The Kings work hard, they aren't quitters and Sutter is a good coach (with some issues), but the problem with this roster is the same problem we have had for years, there just aren't enough skilled players, and finishers in particular on this roster to realistically contend for a SC in 2014.

Even with Brown and Richards not playing like crap, they still needed a piece, last year showed us that, a year later they still need a 25+ goal left wing.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

The type of players the kings need in order for their system to work really well is more snipers.

Speaking of snipers I watched a Semin goal reels..... My god that dude has an absolute blast from any angle. Best accuracy in the league hands down.

But yes we don't have a lot of individual skill so it's hard to score. Please draft from Sweden DL let the good ol Canadian boys go.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

This is news to anyone?

The Kings problem is they simply lack the quantity of skilled players that their western conference foes have. The Kings work hard, they aren't quitters and Sutter is a good coach (with some issues), but the problem with this roster is the same problem we have had for years, there just aren't enough skilled players, and finishers in particular on this roster to realistically contend for a SC in 2014.

Even with Brown and Richards not playing like crap, they still needed a piece, last year showed us that, a year later they still need a 25+ goal left wing.

Let me ask this then, has the game changed since 2012? I ask this because you say there aren't enough skilled players and finishers in particualr on this roster to contend in 2014, not that I disagree or agree, but it seems you specifically point out 2014, as if the game itself has changed,

So essentially the same roster than won in 2012, is not a contender in 2014, what changed then?

 

[KingKopitar11*]

The players have changed, other teams have gotten better, what worked in 2012 run doesn't mean it'd work now.

 

[Herby]

Let me ask this then, has the game changed since 2012? I ask this because you say there aren't enough skilled players and finishers in particualr on this roster to contend in 2014, not that I disagree or agree, but it seems you specifically point out 2014, as if the game itself has changed,

So essentially the same roster than won in 2012, is not a contender in 2014, what changed then?

Yes a lot can change in two years.

- Quick was the best player in the world during that season. I like Quick, but it's a lot to ask of a goaltender to play that well year in and year out.

- Kopitar was dominating games in the playoffs. We have not seen that type of dominating play since, atleast not in the offensive zone.

- Brown was dominating games as well, this season his play has fallen off the cliff.

- Doughty was probably the second best player in the playoffs that year behind Quick. Right now nowhere close to that player.

- Richards was an integral part of the cup winning team, this year he has been garbage. He is going to be lucky to score 15 goals and is an abomination in the defensive zone.

- Mitchell was a #2 caliber defenseman in 2012, right now he is more like a 4 or 5.

- Greene was a solid #5 and right now is a healthy scratch.

- Scuderi is gone and has not been anywhere close to replaced.

- Penner scored some key goals in the playoffs and fit in well with Richards and Carter, they have yet to find anyone to fill that role.

The Kings need to move on from 2012, it was a great accomplishment and we were all proud and happy when it happened, but you have to be forward thinking. This years team as currently constructed is not a championship contender. This is not a good team on the road this season and they weren't good on the road in the playoffs last year. As it stands right now the Kings would likely have to go on the road and win series vs. SJ, Anaheim, Chicago and whoever comes out of the East (likely Pittsburgh or Boston). Sorry, I just don't see it happening. Not with this offense, Quick would have to be even better than 2012.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

The players have changed, other teams have gotten better, what worked in 2012 run doesn't mean it'd work now.

Possibly, I haven't seen their game change per se, the results have definitely changed, but their overall game, I don't believe has.

The way they play the game is pretty much the same, Richards and Brown are having career worst years, if they are having their career average years, is anyone really talking about the offense?

If the powerplay is just a few percentage point better, is anyone really talking about a lack of offense?

It's funny to me when people believe that management, aka DL and company reportedly believe that the teams needs a change because they hear they are looking to make a move, GM's are ALWAYS looking to make a move, I guarantee you CHI is taking and making calls on players, since September, so is Anaheim etc, that's the nature of the game.

Does LA need to make a move, possibly, but to make a move just to make one is nonsense and hopefully a thing of the past, it's counter-productive and brings nothing good to the team.

 

[KingKopitar11*]

I'm not trying to blame the system or anything, but you also got to wonder how much of dump and chase forecheck can really take a toll on a player. Seems very energy demanding. And our top 6 isn't the most youngest in the world either so it makes me wonder if their games have literally regressed that much.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Yes a lot can change in two years.

- Quick was the best player in the world during that season. I like Quick, but it's a lot to ask of a goaltender to play that well year in and year out.

- Kopitar was dominating games in the playoffs. We have not seen that type of dominating play since, atleast not in the offensive zone.

- Brown was dominating games as well, this season his play has fallen off the cliff.

- Doughty was probably the second best player in the playoffs that year behind Quick. Right now nowhere close to that player.

- Richards was an integral part of the cup winning team, this year he has been garbage. He is going to be lucky to score 15 goals and is an abomination in the defensive zone.

- Mitchell was a #2 caliber defenseman in 2012, right now he is more like a 4 or 5.

- Greene was a solid #5 and right now is a healthy scratch.

- Scuderi is gone and has not been anywhere close to replaced.

- Penner scored some key goals in the playoffs and fit in well with Richards and Carter, they have yet to find anyone to fill that role.

The Kings need to move on from 2012, it was a great accomplishment and we were all proud and happy when it happened, but you have to be forward thinking. This years team as currently constructed is not a championship contender. This is not a good team on the road this season and they weren't good on the road in the playoffs last year. As it stands right now the Kings would likely have to go on the road and win series vs. SJ, Anaheim, Chicago and whoever comes out of the East (likely Pittsburgh or Boston). Sorry, I just don't see it happening. Not with this offense, Quick would have to be even better than 2012.

Pretty much what KingsKopitar alluded to,

Like I said, I don't see their game changing overall, but the results aren't there.

I don't believe Greene has been a healthy scratch all year, where did that come from?

Mitchell has been playing fine as has Doughty,

Brown and Richards, I give you, Kopitar is 50/50 right now,

So if it's the personnel that has changed, then it's not a system issue like everyone believes, correct?

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I'm not trying to blame the system or anything, but you also got to wonder how much of dump and chase forecheck can really take a toll on a player. Seems very energy demanding. And our top 6 isn't the most youngest in the world either so it makes me wonder if their games have literally regressed that much.

The Kings system is very taxing, but that is what works in playoffs...

 

[KingsFan7824]

Possibly, I haven't seen their game change per se, the results have definitely changed, but their overall game, I don't believe has.

The way they play the game is pretty much the same, Richards and Brown are having career worst years, if they are having their career average years, is anyone really talking about the offense?

Goals per game with the Kings since 11-12 up to today:
Carter - 105GP, 52G, .495gpg(41 goals per 82 games)
Brown - 178GP, 50G, .281gpg(23)
Kopitar - 180GP, 48G, .267gpg(22)
Williams - 181GP, 47G, .260gpg(21)
Richards - 173GP, 37G, .214gpg(18)

Goals per game this season:
Carter - 41GP, 20G, .488gpg(40)
Williams - 51GP, 14G, .275gpg(23)
Kopitar - 51GP, 13G, .255gpg(21)
Brown - 50GP, 10G, .200gpg(16)
Richards - 51GP, 7G, .137gpg(11)

Carter, Williams, and Kopitar are all basically around their average. If Brown was at his modest average since 11-12, he'd have 14 goals instead of 10 at this point. If Richards was at his very modest average, he'd be at 11 goals instead of 7 right now. That's 8 additional goals. Eight. Not 1000. 8. In 50 games.

How many wins and points in the standings are those 8 missing goals worth to the Kings? How many 1 goal losses turn into wins or points? How many SO wins turn into ROW's?

 

[BigBrown]

People can talk about bad luck all they want, I'm over it. If that was the case we've been suffering bad luck for years, since the Kings always seem to dominate the possession and shots aspect of the game but can never find consistency in their scoring.

Dustin Penner shooting percentage before joining the Kings: ~13%
During 3 seasons with the Kings: ~6%
After re-joining the Ducks: ~13%

There's a microcosm of it all. Other players like Frattin and Richardson are lauded for their amazing wrist shot, but seem to lose that ability once they join the Kings. Bad luck or not, I think there's something inherent in the way the Kings want their offense to be generated. They want shots taken from a certain spot of the ice or something.

Sportsnet had a good article on Penner's situation:
http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/penner-getting-better-shots-with-ducks/

 

[YP44]

this just tells me that it will turn around soon enough

 

[LAKings88]

Thanks for the post op. I appreciate it.

The Kings are a good team. Still have the best defense in the league.

They should have had two points in Detroit.
One, at least, in Boston if they didn't have a collective brain fart that led to Marchand's goal.
Columbus was mostly Jones imho.

Carter and Toffoli are LA's true snipers.

Richards, Williams, Brown, and Frattin are all having down years.

Kopi needs to drive the middle more.

It's not all system.

I really don't care if we finish first in the standings as long as we make the playoffs.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Hey guys,

Did a bit of research, and found some interesting stats, starting from the game on the 2nd of January against St. Louis through to Columbus.

All this talk about LA having an anemic offense, and not going to the middle etc, looking at these stats makes me wonder what you guys define as offense.

Offense is not about scoring goals, it's about generating chances, the Kings problem isn't that they aren't generating chances, it's that they aren't finishing their chances.

The following is a list of shots from the house, that the Kings have gotten, if you don't know what the house is, draw a line from the post, to the faceoff dot, to the top of the circle, across to the other top, down to the dot, back the other post, that is the house, that is where you want most if not all your shots coming from,

1-2 STL - 16 Shots from the House
1-4- VAN - 27 shots from the house
1-7 MIN - 18 shots from the house
1-9 BOS - 18 shots from the house
1-11 DET - 32 shots from the house
1-13 VAN - 13 shots from the house
1-16 STL - 19 shots from the house
1-18 DET 19 shots from the house
1-20 BOS 15 shots from the house
1-21 CBS 22 shots from the house

As you can see, they are generating quality shots, they aren't finishing on them, I need to go back further and see what the percentage is of total shots, and then see how many turned into goals, but for now, those who are saying they don't generate offense, I would love to hear your definition offense.

This could be a sign that I drink too much, but I read "shots from the house" as "shots on the house" and got wood

 

[OldGreatWestern]

Offense is all about scoring goals.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Not sure what thread to put this is in, but per Jim Fox:

lines mskate 74-11-22/21-10-77/23-28-14/13-24-73

ETA: I enjoyed that Penner analytics article you linked to, BigBrown. Thanks.

 

[Captain Mittens*]

Not sure what thread to put this is in, but per Jim Fox:

lines mskate 74-11-22/21-10-77/23-28-14/13-24-73

Lewis on the first line?

At least Carter and Richards are back together

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Offense is all about scoring goals.

I love it, the simplistic style....

 

[LAKings88]

Not sure what thread to put this is in, but per Jim Fox:

lines mskate 74-11-22/21-10-77/23-28-14/13-24-73

Blek

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I expect it to be lower than the league average when all is said and done, but our shooting % will equal out at some point. It's been absolute garbage lately and it's not as much of a lack of finishers as it is a lack of bounces. That gimme that Halak gave us in the Blues game was the last break the Kings got in my mind; other than that, it's been an orchestra of posts, opposing goalies coming up big, and otherwise. Watch the highlights on NHLnet on any given night and you'll see some of the most random shots go in; opposing goalies aren't giving those up to us, and so we're playing playoff-style offense all year.

Call it what you will--maybe not enough traffic in front of the net (i've noticed many rebounds bouncing over sticks--Moulson would help there), maybe everyone gets up for us, maybe our energy is spent from the system--but we have a ridiculously low shooting % that is abnormal even for this team. Let me check on what it is right now (unless someone is faster than me )

Edit: http://www.sportingcharts.com/nhl/teams/4961/los-angeles-kings/#Shooting%20%$SeasonMax=9999&SeasonMin=1900

28th in shooting % for the entire season at 7.82%, let me see if I can look at this dry spell.

shooting 6% starting with the loss to Dallas as per NHL game logs. We've had over 40 shots several times, and until the last few games, our advanced stats/shot differentials have been insane.

Someone else mentioned before you're not as good as you look when you're streaking and you're not as bad as you look when you're slumping. The only big difference between the winning streak and now is the outcomes (duh). Trevor Lewis on the 'top' line sure won't help though

Also, finally, I'll submit that when the offense is working, it's poetry, and look no further than the 2012 playoffs for that. Our system at it's finest. I agree with KingKopitar that it's physically demanding/draining, though.

 

[johnjm22]

This is news to anyone?

The Kings problem is they simply lack the quantity of skilled players that their western conference foes have. The Kings work hard, they aren't quitters and Sutter is a good coach (with some issues), but the problem with this roster is the same problem we have had for years, there just aren't enough skilled players, and finishers in particular on this roster to realistically contend for a SC in 2014.

Even with Brown and Richards not playing like crap, they still needed a piece, last year showed us that, a year later they still need a 25+ goal left wing.

There's less skilled teams that score more goals than the Kings.