Ansar Khan: Khan thinks Zetterbergs done. Zadina, Rasmussen and Hronek to make the season-opening roster

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Honestly I see Blashill leaning on Nielsen and Vanek to be the leaders of that forward group.

With that being said, teaching Ras and Zadina how to be pro's falls a lot under Vanek/Niels.

Best lines in my eyes...

Nyquist - Larkin - Mantha
Bertuzzi - Nielsen - Zadina
Vanek - AA- Rasmussen
Helm - Glendening - Svechnikov

Trash - Trash
More trash - Trash
Hronek - Trash

Howwy
Bernier

Line 1: gives the lionshare of icetime to Larkin and Mantha to learn and grow into 1st line players. Ups Nyquist's stock for trades.
Line 2: Bertuzzi is given a pure grinder/puck-fetcher role to help Nielsen feed the puck to Zadina. Nielsen's defensive stature gives Zadina confidence to do what he wants.
Line 3: Gives AA and Vanek that previously shown chemistry, throwing in Rasmussen in to help with puck battles and net front presence. Teaches AA to play g'damn defense. Sheltered role.
Line 4: Svechnikov gets two guys who will be on the ice strictly to get him the puck. Solid defense from them 2, giving Svech more freedom and less concern.

Defense is trash, play Hronek every game please.

Bernier eventually takes the starting role, probably towards Christmas.

 

[Ghost of Ethan Hunt]

Honestly I see Blashill leaning on Nielsen and Vanek to be the leaders of that forward group.

With that being said, teaching Ras and Zadina how to be pro's falls a lot under Vanek/Niels.

Best lines in my eyes...

Nyquist - Larkin - Mantha
Bertuzzi - Nielsen - Zadina
Vanek - AA- Rasmussen
Helm - Glendening - Svechnikov

Trash - Trash
More trash - Trash
Hronek - Trash

Howwy
Bernier

Line 1: gives the lionshare of icetime to Larkin and Mantha to learn and grow into 1st line players. Ups Nyquist's stock for trades.
Line 2: Bertuzzi is given a pure grinder/puck-fetcher role to help Nielsen feed the puck to Zadina. Nielsen's defensive stature gives Zadina confidence to do what he wants.
Line 3: Gives AA and Vanek that previously shown chemistry, throwing in Rasmussen in to help with puck battles and net front presence. Teaches AA to play g'damn defense. Sheltered role.
Line 4: Svechnikov gets two guys who will be on the ice strictly to get him the puck. Solid defense from them 2, giving Svech more freedom and less concern.

Defense is trash, play Hronek every game please.

Bernier eventually takes the starting role, probably towards Christmas.

I respectfully disagree...No way does Nielsen have a rookie (Zadina)(not known for great defense) & a guy with 55 NHL games experience (Bert)...they'd get eaten alive in the Dzone, otherwise sure they may be ok offensively by the end of the season.

1 rookie for every line should work....also did you sit Abby in favor of Svechnikov?

How it'll probably look:

Zadina/Raz-Larkin-Mantha
Raz/Zadina-Nielsen-Nyquist
Bert-AA-Vanek
Helm-Glen-Abby

...Svechnikov replaces Nike or AA by TDL, possibly Vanek, but doubt Vanek waives NTC again.

 

[lhsgolf19]

 

[jkutswings]

What is defined as "obviously ready?"

In my opinion, the "Larkin Test". Larkin was playing well enough that it would have been crazy to not have him on the roster. If Zadina lights it up throughout camp and preseason, and it's clear that he's one of the best 12 forwards (preferably one of the best 9) right here and now, then he belongs on the roster. If he's hit and miss, and looking like he'd benefit more from starting in Grand Rapids, then put him there.

 

[Henkka]

Okay.

Now I believe he isn't there on the season start. Holland kind of confirmed it.

"As we're planning for an opening day roster, the reality is he's not going to be healthy enough to play on opening day. Is he ready to play in November, December, January? I don't know. He needs to see one of the best back specialists in the world and get further opinions."

"We're going to give lots of kids an opportunity," Holland said. "On the back end, there's an opportunity for sure for one young defenseman to make our team. If a second one can make it, then we'll assess what we'll do with our roster."

So, let's go with the kids. Very interesting pre-season games coming at least.

 

[HockeyinHD]

I haven't been around much, so has anyone walked back any of the 'WTF is Holland doing with the roster, how are any kids going to play' stuff from a couple months ago now that it seems like half the roster can't buy a beer?

They knew Z wasn't playing, and I think they knew it at the end of last season... or were at least 80% sure.

So, now we know why they spent what seems to be every single dollar of cap space. If Z was going to be on LTIR, doing so maximized their benefit to exceed the current cap. Now, granted, the people who have been in favor of eviscerating the roster and winning 18 games a year will object to that strategy as it makes the team better but not really better enough to be a real threat, but it seems like ownership is not interested in having a new barn with a historically dismal team.

Also, not for nothing, but Zetterberg's deal might be worth a nice pick to some cheap team looking to skate over the cap floor without having to pay the freight. How nice a pick would a team just in it for the $ surrender?

 

[Shaman464]

I haven't been around much, so has anyone walked back any of the 'WTF is Holland doing with the roster, how are any kids going to play' stuff from a couple months ago now that it seems like half the roster can't buy a beer?

They knew Z wasn't playing, and I think they knew it at the end of last season... or were at least 80% sure.

So, now we know why they spent what seems to be every single dollar of cap space. If Z was going to be on LTIR, doing so maximized their benefit to exceed the current cap. Now, granted, the people who have been in favor of eviscerating the roster and winning 18 games a year will object to that strategy as it makes the team better but not really better enough to be a real threat, but it seems like ownership is not interested in having a new barn with a historically dismal team.

Also, not for nothing, but Zetterberg's deal might be worth a nice pick to some cheap team looking to skate over the cap floor without having to pay the freight. How nice a pick would a team just in it for the $ surrender?

That's why they went out and got a center... oh WAIT! They didn't! So they got a defenseman? No?! You do go on! No, they went out and signed another winger and want to replace the hole put in the centers by putting AA in as third line center, likely with Vanek, making one of the defensively horrible third lines in NHL history. Z not playing doesn't make what Holland did this summer make any more sense. If he went all in for Tavares or Carlson, that would have made sense. But loading up on another winger on a team deep at wing, with what might be one of the best pure offensive wingers coming from the draft, there is no need to walk anything back, instead its still nonsensical.

 

[HockeyinHD]

That's why they went out and got a center... oh WAIT! They didn't! So they got a defenseman? No?! You do go on! No, they went out and signed another winger and want to replace the hole put in the centers by putting AA in as third line center, likely with Vanek, making one of the defensively horrible third lines in NHL history. Z not playing doesn't make what Holland did this summer make any more sense. If he went all in for Tavares or Carlson, that would have made sense. But loading up on another winger on a team deep at wing, with what might be one of the best pure offensive wingers coming from the draft, there is no need to walk anything back, instead its still nonsensical.

So, no then?

 

[jkutswings]

Also, not for nothing, but Zetterberg's deal might be worth a nice pick to some cheap team looking to skate over the cap floor without having to pay the freight. How nice a pick would a team just in it for the $ surrender?

I had thought the recapture penalty still applied, even if he was traded. Maybe somebody else can confirm this.

 

[Shaman464]

I had thought the recapture penalty still applied, even if he was traded. Maybe somebody else can confirm this.

Yes, you can't trade the recapture fee.

A lot of this was discussed in the Weber/Subban trade: Weber for Subban could hurt Preds in long run

 

[Ezekial]

I had thought the recapture penalty still applied, even if he was traded. Maybe somebody else can confirm this.

In it's most basic form, the recapture doesn't happen until the player retires, if he's traded and LTIR'd until the contract is over it doesn't matter. The team trading for him is trading for the cap hit to reach the floor, so they won't make him officially retire or anything.

 

[avssuc]

Also, not for nothing, but Zetterberg's deal might be worth a nice pick to some cheap team looking to skate over the cap floor without having to pay the freight. How nice a pick would a team just in it for the $ surrender?

Like the Yotes did with Datsyuk? Awesome!

 

[WingsMJN2965]

Like the Yotes did with Datsyuk? Awesome!

Detroit dropped 4 spots in the draft to move Datsyuk's contract.

The trade was Datsyuk and #16 for #20, #53 and Joe Vitale.

 

[HockeyinHD]

Like the Yotes did with Datsyuk? Awesome!

Detroit dropped 4 spots in the draft to move Datsyuk's contract.

The trade was Datsyuk and #16 for #20, #53 and Joe Vitale.

To reply to the pair of you:

Phoenix had to pay Datsyuk's cap number dollar for dollar... meaning, of course, that his 7.5 mil cap hit was paired with a 7.5 mil salary.

The difference here is that Zetterberg's 6 mil cap hit each of the next three years is paired with a 3.35, 1 and 1 mil salary. So, yes, strictly speaking we're talking about relatively similar events but in terms of actual dollars at play we aren't talking about the same thing at all. A team looking to slip by the floor on the cheap can spend 5.35 million over three years and buy themselves 18 mil in cap space. In real terms they can save themselves over 12 million bucks by trading for Z.

All he has to do to secure the "value" here is not retire out from under the team that acquires him.

So, as I've not seen a situation like this crop up before, these being some of the first step down deals to age out, I was curious what a team might be willing to part with asset-wise to save real money.

 

[SCD]

To reply to the pair of you:

Phoenix had to pay Datsyuk's cap number dollar for dollar... meaning, of course, that his 7.5 mil cap hit was paired with a 7.5 mil salary.

Datsyuk retired, so Arizona did not pay any actual salary. They did get his $7.5 mil cap hit because the contract was signed with a player over 35 who retired before completing the contract.

 

[marcmadsen]

I think it's pretty obvious that the DRW have long since known the likelihood of Zetterberg playing this year was very small. Obviously, with him not practicing for the final two months of the season they would have had an idea.

Dont get me wrong, for nostalgia purposes it sucks if this is the way Zetterberg goes out. But perhaps its time to usher in the new guard. To help anyone who feels a bit of grief with Zetterberg likely done, watch this highlight pack of the 2008 SC Finals. I did last night, it was cathartic

 

[Hammettf2b]

I don't mind the Vanek signing now that Hank isn't going to play. Maybe Holland had a hunch this would happen when he signed Vanek? It's as if he actually knows what hes doing lol

 

[WingsMJN2965]

To reply to the pair of you:

Phoenix had to pay Datsyuk's cap number dollar for dollar... meaning, of course, that his 7.5 mil cap hit was paired with a 7.5 mil salary.

The difference here is that Zetterberg's 6 mil cap hit each of the next three years is paired with a 3.35, 1 and 1 mil salary. So, yes, strictly speaking we're talking about relatively similar events but in terms of actual dollars at play we aren't talking about the same thing at all. A team looking to slip by the floor on the cheap can spend 5.35 million over three years and buy themselves 18 mil in cap space. In real terms they can save themselves over 12 million bucks by trading for Z.

All he has to do to secure the "value" here is not retire out from under the team that acquires him.

So, as I've not seen a situation like this crop up before, these being some of the first step down deals to age out, I was curious what a team might be willing to part with asset-wise to save real money.

As @NEWing already pointed out, Phoenix didn't pay Datsyuk a dime. If they would've had to, there's no way they ever would've signed that deal. Better to pay money to somebody who will actually play than somebody who wont.

On top of that, there's little point in Detroit giving up an asset to move Zetterberg's contract. He'll easily qualify for LTIR, and while we'll have to eat $2M of Zetterberg and Franzen's $10M, we don't need that money this year and we certainly wont next year.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Like the Yotes did with Datsyuk? Awesome!

yotes were over the cap floor without the datsyuk deal. and iirc, have been over the cap floor without their other cap dumps they've acquired, maybe to avoid punishment for cap circumvention.

 

[Invictus12]

Honestly I see Blashill leaning on Nielsen and Vanek to be the leaders of that forward group.

With that being said, teaching Ras and Zadina how to be pro's falls a lot under Vanek/Niels.

Best lines in my eyes...

Nyquist - Larkin - Mantha
Bertuzzi - Nielsen - Zadina
Vanek - AA- Rasmussen
Helm - Glendening - Svechnikov

Trash - Trash
More trash - Trash
Hronek - Trash

Howwy
Bernier

Line 1: gives the lionshare of icetime to Larkin and Mantha to learn and grow into 1st line players. Ups Nyquist's stock for trades.
Line 2: Bertuzzi is given a pure grinder/puck-fetcher role to help Nielsen feed the puck to Zadina. Nielsen's defensive stature gives Zadina confidence to do what he wants.
Line 3: Gives AA and Vanek that previously shown chemistry, throwing in Rasmussen in to help with puck battles and net front presence. Teaches AA to play g'damn defense. Sheltered role.
Line 4: Svechnikov gets two guys who will be on the ice strictly to get him the puck. Solid defense from them 2, giving Svech more freedom and less concern.

Defense is trash, play Hronek every game please.

Bernier eventually takes the starting role, probably towards Christmas.

Abdelkader?

 

[Reddwit]

yotes were over the cap floor without the datsyuk deal. and iirc, have been over the cap floor without their other cap dumps they've acquired, maybe to avoid punishment for cap circumvention.

How far over though? With the amount of roster movement year-in and year-out for the Yotes, its not surprising that theyd want to be sufficiently above the cap in the event they move salary throughout the year.

 

[Reddwit]

I don't mind the Vanek signing now that Hank isn't going to play. Maybe Holland had a hunch this would happen when he signed Vanek? It's as if he actually knows what hes doing lol

Didn't someone - Blashill or Holland - say that Zetterberg didn't even go to any practices for the last few months of the season...or am I making that up? If that was the case, they saw the writing on the wall last season.

 

[HockeyinHD]

As @NEWing already pointed out, Phoenix didn't pay Datsyuk a dime. If they would've had to, there's no way they ever would've signed that deal. Better to pay money to somebody who will actually play than somebody who wont.

On top of that, there's little point in Detroit giving up an asset to move Zetterberg's contract. He'll easily qualify for LTIR, and while we'll have to eat $2M of Zetterberg and Franzen's $10M, we don't need that money this year and we certainly wont next year.

LTIR space is only helpful if you're already at the cap, and the value of Z's contract is only maximized for a team struggling to reach a floor (or trying to do so as cheaply as possible). I'm not certain Detroit is going to continue to spend to the cap, so LTIR space may not be that much of a deal.

The question is whether there's a team out there who would want some help to hit the floor in order to run a profit-sharing game on the NHL for 3 years, and what it would be worth to them to do so.

Having Z on or off Detroit's cap isn't a big deal in either case, given the teams condition, I'm just curious if there are any owners in the league looking to be a little more piratical in their profit seeking than usual.

 

[Hammettf2b]

Didn't someone - Blashill or Holland - say that Zetterberg didn't even go to any practices for the last few months of the season...or am I making that up? If that was the case, they saw the writing on the wall last season.

That very well could be the case

 

[Winger98]

Didn't someone - Blashill or Holland - say that Zetterberg didn't even go to any practices for the last few months of the season...or am I making that up? If that was the case, they saw the writing on the wall last season.

Holland, I think.