Ken Holland's Remarks about the off-season

[Rzombo4 prez]

Out of curiosity, when did we last have a healthy Pav and Z for the playoffs?

 

[Spitfire11]

Out of curiosity, when did we last have a healthy Pav and Z for the playoffs?

Pretty sure they were healthy in the 2011 run.

They haven't been in 2009(Datsyuk), 2012(Datsyuk), 2014(both).

Don't know about 2010, wasn't able to follow that year.

Can't remember what was up with who last year, but I thought a good portion of the core was beat up.

 

[Crymson]

Out of curiosity, when did we last have a healthy Pav and Z for the playoffs?

Last season.

 

[Crymson]

Zetterberg-Datsyuk-Nyquist
Tatar-Sheahan-Jurco
Weiss-Helm-Mantha
Abdelkader-Glendening-Miller

Kronwall-Smith
Dekeyser-Niskanen
Ouellet-Marchenko

Howard
Mrazek

To where did Ericsson disappear?

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Franzen over Hossa, Jason Williams, Todd Bertuzzi, Mikael Samuelsson, Jordan Tootoo, Daniel Cleary, Daniel Cleary(again), Legwand trade, Quincey trade, Howard contract, Carlo Colaiachivo, being surprised old guys were getting hurt, or not producing, or both. Holland's track record is not the best since the cup run in 2009. I mean, I guess he signed Brunner. Weiss was a gamble, but a worth while one, imo. Aldredsson was good. Constantly sitting on his hands during the 2010-2012 seasons when his best assets were getting older, contented with borderline playoff team while playing washed up vets over youth. There's a lot to criticize. I don't blame him for not getting Suter or even Bouwmeester, and I'm not saying he's a horrible general manager, but his track record speaks for itself.

Seems weird that Holland would have chosen between the two before the season was over.

 

[Crymson]

Seems weird that Holland would have chosen between the two before the season was over.

There's no doubt that he horribly bungled that one. Loyalty is a virtue in sports, but only to a certain degree. Holland could very possibly have signed both Franzen and Hossa but for his urgency to keep Hudler.

At the end of the 2009 playoffs his choice appeared to be a good one. Franzen had played brilliantly in the playoffs once more following a 30-goal season. Needless to say, however, his decision to go with a homegrown quantity over a known quantity simply because the former was homegrown and the latter was not was very ill-advised.

One of the assumptions often drawn about the situation, though, is that Hossa would certainly have stayed with the team. There's no guarantee, and Franzen would himself likely have garnered some pretty deals on the open market.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

There's no doubt that he horribly bungled that one. Loyalty is a virtue in sports, but only to a certain degree. Holland could very possibly have signed both Franzen and Hossa but for his urgency to keep Hudler.

At the end of the 2009 playoffs his choice appeared to be a good one. Franzen had played brilliantly in the playoffs once more following a 30-goal season. Needless to say, however, his decision to go with a homegrown quantity over a known quantity simply because the former was homegrown and the latter was not was very ill-advised.

One of the assumptions often drawn about the situation, though, is that Hossa would certainly have stayed with the team. There's no guarantee, and Franzen would himself likely have garnered some pretty deals on the open market.

I think Hossa would have stayed, but Holland did not give him a fair offer and didn't appear to make an effort to fit him under the cap once Franzen's deal was signed.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think Hossa would have stayed, but Holland did not give him a fair offer and didn't appear to make an effort to fit him under the cap once Franzen's deal was signed.

The rumor was the offer he got in season was more than he signed for in Chicago. He didn't move on it and Franzen did right away. Also part of signing Hossa was contingent on signing Kopecky who desperately wanted away from Babcock and the Wings if I remember right. A lot of factors there that get lost over time, but they did offer him a contract and it was a lifetime deal with extensive money tied to it, he took his time, Franzen jumped at his.

People would kill Holland if both those guys hit the open market, that would have been the worst possible course of action.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

you cant look back at a GM's work and say

"if you look at exhibt A in hindsight drafting zetterberg in round 7 proves his brilance"

if you're mot prepared to with equal breath say

"if you look at exhibt B in hindsight choosing franzen over hossa was a huge blunder."

it has to be both ways to in fact be inpartial and more often then not their are members from both camps who are anything but

holland is a great drafter/developer and fostering a success based organization from top down, he is however very poor at asset and roster mgmt

the team cleary needs an injection of size, grit and a top 3 minute munching-puck moving dman but i am not so sure holland is the man to fulfill that responsbility due to his own limitations (lack of confidence, too much loyalty, etc)

 

[ArGarBarGar]

That second statement isn't even necessarily what happened. Holland did not choose Franzen over Hossa when he offered that contract in April.

 

[Sadist]

Franzen over Hossa, Jason Williams, Todd Bertuzzi, Mikael Samuelsson, Jordan Tootoo, Daniel Cleary, Daniel Cleary(again), Legwand trade, Quincey trade, Howard contract, Carlo Colaiachivo, being surprised old guys were getting hurt, or not producing, or both. Holland's track record is not the best since the cup run in 2009. I mean, I guess he signed Brunner. Weiss was a gamble, but a worth while one, imo. Aldredsson was good. Constantly sitting on his hands during the 2010-2012 seasons when his best assets were getting older, contented with borderline playoff team while playing washed up vets over youth. There's a lot to criticize. I don't blame him for not getting Suter or even Bouwmeester, and I'm not saying he's a horrible general manager, but his track record speaks for itself.

Don't forget signing Modano which was a total waste too.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Don't forget signing Modano which was a total waste too.

Which was also done by the guy that actually has complete ultimate say on this team in Mike Ilitch well at least he did at the time.

If Chris Ilitch wants to give somebody a contract and they want to come, it is going to happen.

 

[Crymson]

Ken Holland did quite well at asset management until the 2009 offseason. It would be quite incorrect to suggest that he has done an entirely poor job since the lockout.

Don't forget signing Modano which was a total waste too.

This should be obvious, but it was neither Holland's fault nor at all foreseeable that Modano would end up getting his wrist slashed to pieces early in the season. Given that this is the main reason his season was a wash---he was doing fairly well before the event---your statement holds no water.

 

[Run the Jewels]

This is pretty much the roster I expect us to ice on opening night.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster

FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($5.500m)
Tomas Tatar ($1.500m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m)
Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Riley Sheahan ($1.750m) / Luke Glendening ($0.628m)
Joakim Andersson ($0.733m)

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m)
Danny DeKeyser ($2.750m) / Brendan Smith ($1.263m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Dan Boyle ($6.000m)
Adam Almquist ($0.850m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.400m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($2.000m)

BUYOUTS
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,052,879; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,047,121

 

[Kronwalled55]

I expect Holland to target Boyle reallyyyyy hard.

There's those "Holland type of moves," and that certainly feels like one of them.

I think he's going to cost someone a boatload of money though.

 

[Puddles]

This is pretty much the roster I expect us to ice on opening night.

CAPGEEK.COM ARMCHAIR GM ROSTER
CapGeek Armchair GM Roster

FORWARDS

Henrik Zetterberg ($6.083m) / Pavel Datsyuk ($7.500m) / Justin Abdelkader ($1.800m)
Johan Franzen ($3.955m) / Stephen Weiss ($4.900m) / Daniel Alfredsson ($5.500m)
Tomas Tatar ($1.500m) / Darren Helm ($2.125m) / Gustav Nyquist ($0.950m)
Drew Miller ($1.350m) / Riley Sheahan ($1.750m) / Luke Glendening ($0.628m)
Joakim Andersson ($0.733m)

DEFENSEMEN

Niklas Kronwall ($4.750m) / Jonathan Ericsson ($4.250m)
Danny DeKeyser ($2.750m) / Brendan Smith ($1.263m)
Brian Lashoff ($0.725m) / Dan Boyle ($6.000m)
Adam Almquist ($0.850m) / Jakub Kindl ($2.400m)

GOALTENDERS

Jimmy Howard ($5.292m)
Jonas Gustavsson ($2.000m)

BUYOUTS
Carlo Colaiacovo ($0.000m)
Jordin Tootoo ($0.000m)

------
CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(estimations for 2014-15)
SALARY CAP: $71,100,000; CAP PAYROLL: $69,052,879; BONUSES: $0
CAP SPACE (23-man roster): $2,047,121

This is the definition of madness.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

To where did Ericsson disappear?

I think we should trade him along with other assets for an offensive upgrade, if possible. I mentioned it in another thread, but forgot to mention it there.

Seems weird that Holland would have chosen between the two before the season was over.

I mean, going into 2010, he had obviously made up his mind.

 

[Run the Jewels]

This is the definition of madness.

You clearly haven't followed the Detroit Red Wings over the past few seasons.

 

[Crymson]

I think we should trade him along with other assets for an offensive upgrade, if possible. I mentioned it in another thread, but forgot to mention it there.

Poor idea. He's the team's single shutdown defenseman and the most important defenseman on the penalty kill. Perhaps Ouellet will grow into such a player one day, but that won't be anytime soon.

Before you ask, Niskanen doesn't play on the PK.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Source, please. I read a lot of hockey material, and I never once heard so much as a whisper of this.

I don't believe this was widely reported by any highly credible media source, it was speculated though that Holland was keeping Calle out of the deal. I remember that the reported offer was Franzen, Tatar and a 1st

 

[Crymson]

I don't believe this was widely reported by any highly credible media source, it was speculated though that Holland was keeping Calle out of the deal. I remember that the reported offer was Franzen, Tatar and a 1st

If it was simple, baseless speculation, then it has no relevance to this discussion.

 

[VladTheImpaler]

If it was simple, baseless speculation, then it has no relevance to this discussion.

Lol, relax. Just because I cannot remember or find the source does not mean it is entirely baseless. It maybe have been a Kypreos tweet or something along those lines.

 

[chances14]

Hopefully zetterberg and Datsyuk getting impatient will push holland to actually think outside his conservative box and try to make a Stanley cup run within the next couple years

Holland has built one of the deepest prospect pools in the league. Time to put those assets to good use

 

[VladTheImpaler]

Hopefully zetterberg and Datsyuk getting impatient will push holland to actually think outside his conservative box and try to make a Stanley cup run within the next couple years

Holland has built one of the deepest prospect pools in the league. Time to put those assets to good use

Agreed. It sounds like Babs is pretty pissed too. Hopefully he can add to that pressure on Mr. "We Like Our Team"

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I mean, going into 2010, he had obviously made up his mind.

You are arguing under the assumption that "Franzen or Hossa?" was even a question to begin with.