Proposal: Keller Be Killed: CBJ + ARI + OTT

[Dynamite Time]

I guess we'll see how things play out over the next few years...

I'm on record saying he should be moved ASAP even if it's only for future cap space

You want to keep him around


Meet back here in 4 years and one of us can deliver a very satisfying "I told you so!"

The Coyotes aren’t looking to open up cap space, they don’t need to. Keeping a young Keller, who’s under contract for 4 years, who hit 60 points a few years ago is a regular this team needs with other kids coming in, even if you think his cap is a bit high. Schmaltz and Kessel could be moved later but a team with the cap has to hold onto the younger pieces.

@rt is a fan of the Yotes so you shouldn’t be shitty to his responses as he hasn’t come towards you as a dick at all.

 

[Perennial]

The Coyotes aren’t looking to open up cap space, they don’t need to. Keeping a young Keller, who’s under contract for 4 years, who hit 60 points a few years ago is a regular this team needs with other kids coming in, even if you think his cap is a bit high. Schmaltz and Kessel could be moved later but a team with the cap has to hold onto the younger pieces.

@rt is a fan of the Yotes so you shouldn’t be shitty to his responses as he hasn’t come towards you as a dick at all.

Except for when he called me ignorant because I value Keller and Schwartz differently than he does...

What you’re saying is that you’re willfully choosing the side ignorance then.


Keller hit 60 points 4 years ago and is averaging 50 points per 82 games since then...

And according to CapFriendly, Keller has 7 years left on his deal, not 4

 

[WhiskeyYerTheDevils]

Wow that's brutal for Arizona.

 

[Dynamite Time]

Except for when he called me ignorant because I value Keller and Schwartz differently than he does...

What you’re saying is that you’re willfully choosing the side ignorance then.


Keller hit 60 points 4 years ago and is averaging 50 points per 82 games since then...

And according to CapFriendly, Keller has 7 years left on his deal, not 4

Ignorance is bliss!

I was off on the contract; still nothing big for a young top 6 with a small overpay for a team with the cap.

It is with your lack of familiarity with the Coyotes though. Your philosophy of moving out young players just to open up cap doesn’t make sense. A team rebuilding has to have some guys to start with. If they trade Keller they’ll just pay older vets more than they should to fill those holes to hit the cap floor.

 

[Fig]

OP hockey futures like prospects are derivatives or something.

I don't mind the puns, but wow is the reasoning for some of the moves way off. I do want to say he's basically playing the character in his display pic though...

The worm that destroys you is the temptation to agree with your critics, to get their approval.

I'm still kinda mad that in this thread, he comes up with this misleading pun. Doesn't even kill Keller.

 

[Viqsi]

I think the fascination this forum has with trading anyone and anything of value cause rebuild is insane, absolutely. Arizona is loaded with draft picks. Don't see any reason to trade their best, young, cost controlled number one defenseman for more draft picks.

They still have to actually play games for the next four years, and despite what people seem to think, icing a team of complete shit for multiple years because you've traded everyone of value is a surefire way to make a mess of all those draft picks you accumulate and ensure that you perpetually stay in rebuild mode. Young rookies and prospects need to play with other decent players in order to grow. They don't all just become impact players because they were drafted high.

Yep, and we kept making this same point whenever the OP was blathering about other Jackets trade proposals in which we threw away key pieces, and yet for some reason said poster continues to be painfully oblivious to it.

Even in this one. For f***'s sake, we just picked up Voracek specifically to both supercharge Laine AND let him live out Phase 2 of his Jagr fantasies by becoming The Mentor to all our kids the way Jagr was to him. Trading him right now would be ludicrously insane.

* * *​

Attack the messenger, ignore the message...

Hon? That's only valid if you're relaying a message from someone else. When the "messenger" is the one creating the messages, and the messages keep being hopeless garbage (which they consistently have been in your proposals), the messenger is a 100% valid target.

 

[rt]

Attack the messenger, ignore the message...

Not at all. I think if you re-read, you’ll notice I was attacking your line of thinking, not you. I absolutely didn’t call you ignorant. You’re obviously quite intelligent. You said you wanted to respectfully disagree, but it seems you’re struggling with that. At least from my perspective. It’s hard to tell online.

You make these wildly outlandish proposals with funny titles all the time. And I like them. I just am surprised at little at the vehemence with which you defend them. I always assumed they were tongue-in-cheek.

 

[rt]

Except for when he called me ignorant because I value Keller and Schwartz differently than he does...

What you’re saying is that you’re willfully choosing the side ignorance then.


Keller hit 60 points 4 years ago and is averaging 50 points per 82 games since then...

And according to CapFriendly, Keller has 7 years left on his deal, not 4

I didn’t call you ignorant. I challenged you to consider your philosophy because it doesn’t strike me as a good one for someone looking to learn, rather than someone more concerned with protecting an opinion.

I see reading through this thread that a lot of people are being really rude to you. And I popped open another and I see more of the same. I don’t get why people are doing that. The whole point of this forum is to discuss. It’s a discussion forum. Not sure why people want to be rude to someone for respectfully putting out colorful ideas to discuss. I like it, personally. It costs nothing and anyone can opt into the discussion or not. How is that anything but positive?

So anyway, all that is to say that I think you have good reason to be on the defensive. And I think that’s being pointed at me a little, even though I’m really not trying to come at you like these other guys.

 

[Perennial]

Not at all. I think if you re-read, you’ll notice I was attacking your line of thinking, not you. I absolutely didn’t call you ignorant. You’re obviously quite intelligent. You said you wanted to respectfully disagree, but it seems you’re struggling with that. At least from my perspective. It’s hard to tell online.

You make these wildly outlandish proposals with funny titles all the time. And I like them. I just am surprised at little at the vehemence with which you defend them. I always assumed they were tongue-in-cheek.

I won't post a proposal unless I think there's merit for each team involved... that's not to say I would always make the trade from each team's perspective, just that there's justification for it worthy of consideration

If someone responds to a proposal with "that makes no sense", that's when I'll disagree and defend

If someone responds to a proposal with "it's not something I would do", then my response is 'okay, fair enough'

See the difference?


My approach to a rebuild is to tear it all down and spend a few years at the bottom of the standings collecting high picks, use the cap space to take on cap dumps and the picks/prospects that come with them, and then have the young core all ready to make an impact at the NHL level within a a few years of each other...

What I wouldn't want at that point is an overpaid 2nd liner taking up cap space on a long term deal

Could Keller improve and become an all-star? It's certainly possible, but I wouldn't gamble on that given certain factors that I obviously value more than others...

So, that may not be how you would approach a rebuild in Arizona, but it's what I would do...

 

[Perennial]

Ignorance is bliss!

I was off on the contract; still nothing big for a young top 6 with a small overpay for a team with the cap.

It is with your lack of familiarity with the Coyotes though. Your philosophy of moving out young players just to open up cap doesn’t make sense. A team rebuilding has to have some guys to start with. If they trade Keller they’ll just pay older vets more than they should to fill those holes to hit the cap floor.

I disagree...

 

[Dumais]

I think this is the biggest problem with your proposals, most people and GMs/coaches (of all sports, not just hockey) realize that a team full of 25 and under players will fail. Too much pressure on young players will kill their confidence and stunt their development. That's what the AHL and minor leagues are for, to help them develop. Not every player is going to be NHL ready, and even if they are; that doesn't mean they are ready for the responsibility of top line/top pairing/starting goaltender positions. Prospects are necessary, but not something you can build a successful team around.

I would suggest you to make a poll if you don't believe me.

 

[Perennial]

I think this is the biggest problem with your proposals, most people and GMs/coaches (of all sports, not just hockey) realize that a team full of 25 and under players will fail. Too much pressure on young players will kill their confidence and stunt their development. That's what the AHL and minor leagues are for, to help them develop. Not every player is going to be NHL ready, and even if they are; that doesn't mean they are ready for the responsibility of top line/top pairing/starting goaltender positions. Prospects are necessary, but not something you can build a successful team around.

I would suggest you to make a poll if you don't believe me.

As I said in a post above, I would be bringing in cap dumps (1 or 2 years left on their deals), so the team wouldn't just be youth... if a young player isn't ready, they can stay in the minors until they are

What's a poll going to prove? That few people share the same philosophy to a rebuild as I do? I think that's been well established already...

 

[Viqsi]

As I said in a post above, I would be bringing in cap dumps (1 or 2 years left on their deals), so the team wouldn't just be youth... if a young player isn't ready, they can stay in the minors until they are

What's a poll going to prove? That few people share the same philosophy to a rebuild as I do? I think that's been well established already...

Perhaps you might consider attempting to understand why the difference of philosophy exists.

Here's a hint: it's because the philosophy you're espousing has been proven to kill teams more than reinvigorate them.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Perhaps you might consider attempting to understand why the difference of philosophy exists.

Here's a hint: it's because the philosophy you're espousing has been proven to kill teams more than reinvigorate them.

Well, as the topic title states, he was trying to kill Clayton Keller. If these offers kill off teams, Perennial is here for that.

 

[ryan callahan]

Seems pretty unfair to Arizona to be honest. Give Keller more time before giving up on him.

 

[Perennial]

Seems pretty unfair to Arizona to be honest. Give Keller more time before giving up on him.

The problem is, you give him another year or two and he doesn't improve, it becomes less likely someone will be willing to trade for him, so you're possibly stuck with that contract for another 5 - 6 years as his salary increases above his cap hit

 

[Souker]

Keller is imo one of the likeliest player’s production to explode if traded to the right team.
I think some are underestimating greatly this kid’s potential.