GDT: KAZ vs. POL May 20, 2024

[ozo]

Im not ignoring anything, i was just saying that one or two prospects here and there doesnt necesserily translate to success at Worlds and we cant evaluate how good or bad Belarus is if they arent even playing.

We are literally praying Balcers is healthy for us and Sharangovich is just a prospect because politics favors us?

 

[SoundAndFury]

Denmark has a very huge advantage they are very close to hockey powerhouse Sweden with a great hokey programme. Their prospects actually have a chance. What does the average Kazakh player have? Either play 5 minutes in a bottom feeder team in Russia or go back to Kazakh league. Its a completley different situation. Denmark will rebound, its obvious, while im not seeing the same for Kazakhs.

Out of 5 prospects I listed before, 2 play in USA, 1 in Canada, 1 in Finland and 1 in Russia. So your point doesn't really stand up, does it?

I would also love to hear the arguments why is Denmark rebounding obvious? They have always been close to Sweden, didn't help them much before the golden generation and doesn't do much after. Since it's unlikely any Danes will be drafted this year it will make 1 in the last 5 drafts. Even Kazakhstan has 2 over that time frame.

 

[HockeyinLV]

You are seeing nothing then. Kazakhstan is ten-folding their kids game, just like Belarus was years ago. Namejs will run you though numbers, but as long as their top prospects report to their NT as Latvian, I do not feel optimistic no matter how much magic dust Swedish development program sprinkles on Latvian prospects.

You mean danish prospects? Otherwise im confused by what you mean by that last part.

 

[ozo]

You mean danish prospects? Otherwise im confused by what you mean by that last part.

No no, I indeed meant Latvian. You said Sweden made our prospects better, I just want something proving your theory.

 

[HockeyinLV]

Out of 5 prospects I listed before, 2 play in USA, 1 in Canada, 1 in Finland and 1 in Russia. So your point doesn't really stand up, does it?

I would also love to hear the arguments why is Denmark rebounding obvious? They have always been close to Sweden, didn't help them much before the golden generation and doesn't do much after. Since it's unlikely any Danes will be drafted this year it will make 1 in the last 5 drafts. Even Kazakhstan has 2 over that time frame.

I was talking about the larger picture , obviously. Look where most players on Kazakh roster play.

Denmark, has a much stronger hockey culture, a better national league and most importantly - is much, much richer than Kazakhstan - they have infrastrcure and they have the money to upkeep the sport. No offense, but Kazakhstan is just dirt poor comparetively

 

[ozo]

I was talking about the larger picture , obviously. Look where most players on Kazakh roster play.

Denmark, has a much stronger hockey culture, a better national league and most importantly - is much, much richer than Kazakhstan - they have infrastrcure and they have the money to upkeep the sport. No offense, but Kazakhstan is just dirt poor comparetively

Look at the larger picture sounds silly when you say that. If one country can burn resources in hockey hockey it is Kazakhstan and not Denmark. And again you refuse to acknowledging the expansion of spot that is happening Kazakhstan and is not happening in Denmark. Why would Denmark by default always be be better in niche sport like hockey? Zero reason.

 

[HockeyinLV]

No no, I indeed meant Latvian. You said Sweden made our prospects better, I just want something proving your theory

The fact that weve been consistently making U-18 quarters and players that come from Swedish hockey schools are usually our best players? That would atleast be a start.

 

[HockeyinLV]

Look at the larger picture sounds silly when you say that. If one country can burn resources in hockey hockey it is Kazakhstan and not Denmark. And again you refuse to acknowledging the expansion of spot that is happening Kazakhstan and is not happening in Denmark. Why would Denmark by default always be be better in niche sport like hockey? Zero reason.

How many average Kazakh families can afford to even send their child to hockey? Its definitley less than in Denmark. You can build as many arenas as you want, but if most of the population is struggling to pay the bills and keep food on the table they arent gonna be wondering how good their kid might be at hockey. Thats the bottleneck.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Denmark, has a much stronger hockey culture,

What are you even talking about. As recently as 18 years ago they had 0 NHL players when every former post-USSR country that practiced hockey, Kazakhstan included, had at least a few.

 

[HockeyinLV]

What are you even talking about. As recently as 18 years ago they had 0 NHL players when every former post-USSR country that practiced hockey, Kazakhstan included, had at least a few.

What does that have to do with anything? Who cares about 18 years ago. Hockey isnt even on the radar for most Kazakhs( its not even among top3 most popular sports), they dont care that much.

 

[SoundAndFury]

What does that have to do with anything? Who cares about 18 years ago. Hockey isnt even on the radar for most Kazakhs( its not even among top3 most popular sports), they dont care that much.

And Danes do?

You are just saying random things. How does Denmark have a "stronger hockey culture"?

 

[Eye of Ra]

I was talking about the larger picture , obviously. Look where most players on Kazakh roster play.

Denmark, has a much stronger hockey culture, a better national league and most importantly - is much, much richer than Kazakhstan - they have infrastrcure and they have the money to upkeep the sport. No offense, but Kazakhstan is just dirt poor comparetively

ever heard of Antropov?

and about Denmark ties with Sweden, the kazaks have ties with Russia (MHL, KHL, VHL etc)

 

[HockeyinLV]

And Danes do?

You are just saying random things. How does Denmark have a "stronger hockey culture"?

Why do you think Denmark is hosting next championship together with Sweden. Is it because noone cares for hockey there?
They have a decent domestic league and usually are fairly represented by fans in almost any WC denmark plays.

ever heard of Antropov?

and about Denmark ties with Sweden, the kazaks have ties with Russia (MHL, KHL, VHL etc)

KHL-MHL-VHL is just dogshit for development. It only works for Russian players.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Why do you think Denmark is hosting next championship together with Sweden. Is it because noone cares for hockey there?
They have a decent domestic league and usually are fairly represented by fans in almost any WC denmark plays.


KHL-MHL-VHL is just dogshit for development. It only works for Russian players.

Lots of Belarussian and kazaks player turned out good. How is SHL-Allsvenskan-Superelit not dogshit for development for non-swedes?

 

[SoundAndFury]

KHL-MHL-VHL is just dogshit for development. It only works for Russian players.

Another interesting take considering the careers of Balinskis, Jaks, Abols, etc.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Denmark has a very huge advantage they are very close to hockey powerhouse Sweden with a great hokey programme. Their prospects actually have a chance. What does the average Kazakh player have? Either play 5 minutes in a bottom feeder team in Russia or go back to Kazakh league. Its a completley different situation. Denmark will rebound, its obvious, while im not seeing the same for Kazakhs.

What are you even talking about? Kazakhs have access to the KHL/VHL/MHL. There is literally a KHL team in Kazakhstan designed for players to graduate into.

 

[WarriorofTime]

KHL-MHL-VHL is just dogshit for development. It only works for Russian players.

There are like 13 Danish players combined in the SHL and HockeyAllsvenskan.

Denmark was a bit better historically but there isn't much difference going forward, good chance Kazakhstan overtakes them.

 

[HockeyinLV]

Another interesting take considering the careers of Balinskis, Jaks, Abols, etc.

Balinskis spent his early junior in Germany, so..no
Ābols really opened up after his season in WHL, again, no. I dont consider these players to be developed by that awful organization. If anything they would have been much better players in an alternate universe where they never played on MHL Maybe you could make the case for Jaks.

 

[Garl]

What are you even talking about? Kazakhs have access to the KHL/VHL/MHL. There is literally a KHL team in Kazakhstan designed for players to graduate into.

This wonderful advantage has historically left Kazakhstan without many players who transfered to Russia.
The literal KHL team also doesn't help, it is not a development org.

Lots of Belarussian and kazaks player turned out good. How is SHL-Allsvenskan-Superelit not dogshit for development for non-swedes?

Swedish development system: Kopitar, Pastrnak, Fiala, Boedker, Eller, Nielsen etc.
Russian development system: Breus

Ok

 

[Garl]

KHL-MHL-VHL is just dogshit for development. It only works for Russian players.

I Am not sure what you meant with this, but overall it is just a historic truth. Latvian and Kazakhstani participation was a failure, also Belarus recently has some success, but it is not through MHL

I was talking about the larger picture , obviously. Look where most players on Kazakh roster play.

Denmark, has a much stronger hockey culture, a better national league and most importantly - is much, much richer than Kazakhstan - they have infrastrcure and they have the money to upkeep the sport. No offense, but Kazakhstan is just dirt poor comparetively

Denmark does not have a stronger hockey culture than Kazakhstan.

 

[Garl]

This is sort of a blind historical evaluation. Norway and especially Denmark are very obviously on a downswing, while hockey in pretty much the whole of "Eastern block" is on the rise so returning to some kind of status quo of yester years is borderline impossible.

Norway on a downswing? Maybe it was the case some time ago, but not now.

 

[Garl]

Absolutely so, if they decide to represent Kazakhstan. As I said Kazakhstan is Belarus 10 years ago, if talent is too big, it might just represent Russia in the end. But geopolitics as bad as they are, are favorable to Kazakhstan hockey wise, so I am positive at the moment.

Same goes for Belarus, if we (hopefully) see them again, without pointless foreigners, they will be a top 8 team at very least. Their system at the moment is crazy good.

Thats a hot take. Belarus a top 8 team. At least? Because Sharangovich?

 

[Garl]

You are seeing nothing then. Kazakhstan is ten-folding their kids game, just like Belarus was years ago. Namejs will run you though numbers, but as long as their top prospects report to their NT as Latvian, I do not feel optimistic no matter how much magic dust Swedish development program sprinkles on Latvian prospects.

Kazakhstan will improve, but at this point, they have a long way to go to even catch where they were in the 90s. Proclaiming some grand future for them is a pure projection at this point.

 

[WarriorofTime]

This wonderful advantage has historically left Kazakhstan without many players who transfered to Russia.
The literal KHL team also doesn't help, it is not a development org.

As opposed the the Magic Dozen Danes that play in the Top 2 Swedish Leagues combined? lmao

The literal KHL team also has a literal developmental team in the MHL.

 

[Garl]

Just look at their U20/U18 results? Seems pretty straightforward to me, especially when compared to, for example, Denmark. Nikitin, Breus, Logvin, Nurkenov, Kim are all fairly legit prospects for this level.

As importantly, their local league is pretty much on par with those of France or UK after absorbing the former VHL teams which is also a big step.

Another hot take. Denmark has a bunch of decent players in Sweden, Germany, Finland and of course NHL. With the same age classes Kazakhstan and Belarus didnt produce almost anybody.

Also, Kaz championship is not on the level of France.

Even now, Denmark has Fisker Molgaard, Kazakhstan has no one comparable.