Player Discussion Jonathan Drouin - Part 3

[Le Tricolore]

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[abo9]

We don't see it the same. Too many soft types has ripple effects. A guy like Tatar got to play with Danault and Gallagher full time (for the most part) and the rest of them were bounced around a lot.

And Drouin got to play with Suzuki/Kotkaniemi and Anderson most of the time... do you call Anderson a soft player?

The season before he played with Armia and Domi
Two years ago with Domi and Shaw

His RW was always not soft... and he was always on the offensive line. Given PP time as well.

I'm still not sure how it affects Drouin never taking off.

 

[Habs Halifax]

And Drouin got to play with Suzuki/Kotkaniemi and Anderson most of the time... do you call Anderson a soft player?

The season before he played with Armia and Domi
Two years ago with Domi and Shaw

His RW was always not soft... and he was always on the offensive line. Given PP time as well.

I'm still not sure how it affects Drouin never taking off.

No... The only line that was stable was the Danault line. Rest of them were bounced around. We are far apart on this.

Drouin belongs with a team like the Jets IMO. Ehlers does well with his skill/skating game while pretty much every other forward is big and strong.

This is not making excuses for Drouin. It's context on what situation he would do best in. I feel you think he sucks, sucks, sucks no matter the fit. I don't think that way

 

[austin316]

I can't envision any scenario Drouin is back with the Habs next season.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I can't envision any scenario Drouin is back with the Habs next season.

I'd be careful with expecting anything for sure. I can see multiple outcomes including him back. I do feel the team and player will agree that it's best to separate but we have to find a good fit in order to do that. They might agree to play another year and buy more time.... if we have difficulty

 

[JoelWarlord]

Drouin belongs with a team like the Jets IMO. Ehlers does well with his skill/skating game while pretty much every other forward is big and strong.

This is not making excuses for Drouin. It's context on what situation he would do best in. I feel you think he sucks, sucks, sucks no matter the fit. I don't think that way

I know you're not making excuses for Drouin, I just don't think this really tells us anything. Every winger in the league save for maybe Pastrnak/Marchand/Kucherov are going to produce more if you stick them with Scheifele and Wheeler full time (maybe not going forward since Wheeler's kinda washed now but you get what I mean). Lehkonen would produce more on that line too, I just don't see how that's meaningful context when it's true for basically ever player.

Ehlers bounced around a lot this year too. He spent most time with Dubois + Connor, then 2nd most with Scheifele and either Connor/Copp, then a fair bit of time with Stastny as well. Last year was mostly with Roslovic and Wheeler. You have to go back to 18-19 for Ehlers to get a stable line with Scheifele and Wheeler. I just struggle to say that those linemates are better than Domi and Shaw were in 18-19, or Suzuki + Anderson this year. He spent over 70% of his ice time with Suzuki and almost all of that time was with Anderson as the other winger (and the times that weren't with Anderson he was mostly with Toffoli, and a small time with Armia). I just can't see him getting a better opportunity anywhere other than maybe Edmonton.

 

[Habs Halifax]

I know you're not making excuses for Drouin, I just don't think this really tells us anything. Every winger in the league save for maybe Pastrnak/Marchand/Kucherov are going to produce more if you stick them with Scheifele and Wheeler full time (maybe not going forward since Wheeler's kinda washed now but you get what I mean). Lehkonen would produce more on that line too, I just don't see how that's meaningful context when it's true for basically ever player.

Ehlers bounced around a lot this year too. He spent most time with Dubois + Connor, then 2nd most with Scheifele and either Connor/Copp, then a fair bit of time with Stastny as well. Last year was mostly with Roslovic and Wheeler. You have to go back to 18-19 for Ehlers to get a stable line with Scheifele and Wheeler. I just struggle to say that those linemates are better than Domi and Shaw were in 18-19, or Suzuki + Anderson this year. He spent over 70% of his ice time with Suzuki and almost all of that time was with Anderson as the other winger (and the times that weren't with Anderson he was mostly with Toffoli, and a small time with Armia). I just can't see him getting a better opportunity anywhere other than maybe Edmonton.

Being bounced around with young centers vs the multiple mature options the Jets have are not the same thing. I stand firm. Drouin inserted with a more physical group looks better. But some will twist that into me saying he a star then. Not what I'm saying

I bet you Gaudreau would have struggled if he was in Drouin's spot on the Habs so far.

 

[JoelWarlord]

Being bounced around with young centers vs the multiple mature options the Jets have are not the same thing. I stand firm. Drouin inserted with a more physical group looks better. But some will twist that into me saying he a star then. Not what I'm saying

Again I don't disagree that he'd be better playing in the Jets top 6, I just don't think that tells us anything. Almost every forward in the league is going to score more playing 20 minutes a game with Scheifele and Wheeler/Connor than 16-18 with Suzuki and Anderson. Lehkonen would look better on that line too. I also don't really get the idea the Jets are a more physical group than the Habs. Lowry is their only guy that really hits much, Anderson/KK/Danault/Suzuki all play more physical than Wheeler/Dubois/Stastny, and Connor/Ehlers/Scheifele all average a hit every two games or less.

I bet you Gaudreau would have struggled if he was in Drouin's spot on the Habs so far.

I can't say for sure about Gaudreau, I'd suspect he'd be fine though. But what about Toffoli? He was new to the team, bounced around with the same two young centers Drouin had and had the best season of his career. I just have a hard time believing that Anderson/Armia/Shaw aren't physical enough wingers for Drouin, and Suzuki/Domi/Kotkaniemi aren't consistent enough for him after seeing Toffoli immediately take off with the same guys.

 

[Habz4]

I can't envision any scenario Drouin is back with the Habs next season.

We will need a C to replace KK

 

[abo9]

No... The only line that was stable was the Danault line. Rest of them were bounced around. We are far apart on this.

NHL Lines Advanced Stats
Maybe this website is wrong, but it shows that in
2020-2021: The line of Drouin - Suzuki - Anderson was the most stable besides the Danault line
2019-2020: Drouin - Armia was a very stable pair. He only ever played with Gallagher for 40 mins.
2018-2019: Drouin - Domi - Shaw was the 2nd most stable line. And he played his second most minutes with Danault - Gallagher.

Your argument just doesn't hold, unless you tell me that Armia and Shaw are not top 6 players and it might have dragged Drouin down - then I agree. It just shows Drouin is not able to run his own line, he's a complementary, unidimensional winger.

Imo he was needed in Montreal because we lacked talent. He was solely needed for the PP and because we had no "solid" depth at LW.

Drouin belongs with a team like the Jets IMO. Ehlers does well with his skill/skating game while pretty much every other forward is big and strong.

This is not making excuses for Drouin. It's context on what situation he would do best in. I feel you think he sucks, sucks, sucks no matter the fit. I don't think that way

Like Noob616 said... that would be true for any player on the Habs. They would all look better with those Jets first liners - who are part of the NHL elite.
And no, I don't think he sucks. He just is what he is: a 50 pts offense-first winger, who's not very good defensively. A complementary top 6 winger that helps on the PP.

What sucks is the trade that brought him here, but that's separated from Drouin the player - that's on MB

 

[Habs Halifax]

NHL Lines Advanced Stats
Maybe this website is wrong, but it shows that in
2020-2021: The line of Drouin - Suzuki - Anderson was the most stable besides the Danault line
2019-2020: Drouin - Armia was a very stable pair. He only ever played with Gallagher for 40 mins.
2018-2019: Drouin - Domi - Shaw was the 2nd most stable line. And he played his second most minutes with Danault - Gallagher.

Your argument just doesn't hold, unless you tell me that Armia and Shaw are not top 6 players and it might have dragged Drouin down - then I agree. It just shows Drouin is not able to run his own line, he's a complementary, unidimensional winger.

Imo he was needed in Montreal because we lacked talent. He was solely needed for the PP and because we had no "solid" depth at LW.



Like Noob616 said... that would be true for any player on the Habs. They would all look better with those Jets first liners - who are part of the NHL elite.
And no, I don't think he sucks. He just is what he is: a 50 pts offense-first winger, who's not very good defensively. A complementary top 6 winger that helps on the PP.

What sucks is the trade that brought him here, but that's separated from Drouin the player - that's on MB

You can show me all kinds of stuff but after the Danault line, our forwards were bounced more than you think. I watched the games and I've been talking for a while now about how others have struggled because Danault had our two best wingers. It's been talked about a lot.

Did you really have to look that up?

 

[Team_Spirit]

2 years left at 5.5 with 3 teams no trade list.

Subban has 1 year left at 9


Think Berge would do this? Lmfao

 

[abo9]

You can show me all kinds of stuff but after the Danault line, our forwards were bounced more than you think. I watched the games and I've been talking for a while now about how others have struggled because Danault had our two best wingers. It's been talked about a lot.

Did you really have to look that up?

The "stuff' is the data of linemates and time on ice. I'll take data over your... flawed memory. And that's not an attack on you, we're humans, our memories are flawed (unless you're a cyborg?)

I see frequently on here people discussiong player's usage and most often than not they're wrong despite watching the game live. No way I trust memories for a 3 years period.

Do you think it's too late for Drouin? If he can find a better fit to his talents, I'd love to see the player that dominated the Q (or at least, a close enough version). It's not fun seeing guys like him or Galchenyuk being average

 

[Woland]

We will need a C to replace KK

pretty clear by now that Drouin does not have the hockey sense and work ethic to be an effective C in the NHL.

I also think Drouin is finished with the Habs and the NHL.

let him go shine in Europe on the larger rink and lower caliber players. I can see him in the Swiss league.

 

[Grate n Colorful Oz]

2 years left at 5.5 with 3 teams no trade list.

Subban has 1 year left at 9


Think Berge would do this? Lmfao

Maybe if Roy is GM. One prodigal child returning home to bring back another one. Poetic.

 

[Habz4]

pretty clear by now that Drouin does not have the hockey sense and work ethic to be an effective C in the NHL.

I also think Drouin is finished with the Habs and the NHL.

let him go shine in Europe on the larger rink and lower caliber players. I can see him in the Swiss league.

I'm guessing you missed the sarcasm in my post

 

[BehindTheTimes]

I think the only chance he returns to the NHL is with us. I hope it works out and he’s comes back better than ever.

 

[abo9]

I think the only chance he returns to the NHL is with us. I hope it works out and he’s comes back better than ever.

Not with Arizona or a team in a smaller market in dire need of offense?

Galchenyuk had plenty of teams try him in the last few years and I would consider Drouin the better player at this poiny

 

[26Mats]

Not with Arizona or a team in a smaller market in dire need of offense?

Galchenyuk had plenty of teams try him in the last few years and I would consider Drouin the better player at this poiny

I could see a scenario where Drouin, Galchenyuk, Domi, and Anderson all end up being pretty similar level of players, i.e. pretty useless. But hopefully Anderson can improve his defensive awareness and puck skills.

 

[Scotianhab]

I Actually think he would do well with a team like Edm that need talented wingers. I also wonder if Colorado could take a chance. . Drouin salary would be the biggest hurdle to trade him.

 

[Koivu777]

Please get rid of Drouin, maybe even dangle a pick to Seattle as bait so they take him from us.

 

[sampollock]

Expose him to Seattle

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Not with Arizona or a team in a smaller market in dire need of offense?

Galchenyuk had plenty of teams try him in the last few years and I would consider Drouin the better player at this poiny

I don’t think so, no. I think the chances someone trades for him are basically zero.

 

[Essenege]

For all his flaws, I’m convinced we still have room for him in the lineup.

It was apparent at multiple points in the playoffs that we lacked a forward who is good a controlled zone entries, especially on the PP. In general, aside from Suzuki, we lacked forwards with some offensive creativity.

If he comes back healthy (mentally), with the collective media and fans cutting him some slack with lower expectations, maybe we get the best version of him finally.

With what we would get right now for him, it’s still better to give him a shot at a comeback then trading him for pennies. If it doesn’t work then, trade him.

 

[Beendair Donedat]

I don’t see any scenario where he’s back next year with the Habs, if he wasn’t healthy to participate in this prolonged Cup run, I doubt he’s able to recover in time for the season starting in October, especially when nothing about his reason for departure has been made official.

I strongly suspect he will be on LTIR until his contract is completed.