Speculation: Jets - General Rumour, Trade, Free Agent and Waiver Speculation 14-15 Part XII

[jetkarma*]

Ahhhh......you hurt me.

I doubt that , but honestly if you want to position your views the way you have that is of course entirely up to you . Of course so is what you have said is likely to hapen and that you feel there is incompetence for Jets management . That is a fair comment ? or not ?

 

[Hunter368]

Posts are available to all to read . Just look at some ofthe latest ones .

You want to research , it's easy to do so .

Classic response.....nothing to back up your claim. HFB's at their best.

 

[mcpw]

Posts are available to all to read . Just look at some ofthe latest ones .

You want to research , it's easy to do so .

I don't see any recent posts stating that we have the prospect pool of an expansion team, and a roster with half NHL players, half AHL/Euro players. Did you forget how bad the 2011 Jets really were?

 

[jetkarma*]

Yes hindsight is convenient for many. As is saying nothing and then claiming you knew all along.

My prediction for this year was bang on. I called for us to be a bubble team, either missing by a hair or just squeezing in to get swept. I called that back in Nov/Dec. Said we would be competitive all year for a playoff hunt.

I am quite sure I amnot one who hasn't said anything and more than ok to have what I say reviewed .

Let's be blunt shall we , you think Chevy is at best a mediocre GM ? You feel he shoud be fired and replaced ?

 

[Hunter368]

I doubt that , but honestly if you want to position your views the way you have that is of course entirely up to you . Of course so is what you have said is likely to hapen and that you feel there is incompetence for Jets management . That is a fair comment ? or not ?

Show me where I said Jets management is incompetent.

I said Chevy has not shown he's highly adept at player movement. I even went out of my way to say he's done it in drafting. I said I'm very scared he might make the wrong moves.

How is that saying he's incompetent? I haven't said that.....your reading deeper into my words.

Just b/c I'm not a Chevy fan boy doesn't mean that I think he's incompetent.

 

[jetkarma*]

I don't see any recent posts stating that we have the prospect pool of an expansion team, and a roster with half NHL players, half AHL/Euro players. Did you forget how bad the 2011 Jets really were?

I know exactly how bad we were , and said it at the time . I have been an advocate of the GM and the dramatic improvement he has facilated for the Jets .

 

[Hunter368]

I don't see any recent posts stating that we have the prospect pool of an expansion team, and a roster with half NHL players, half AHL/Euro players. Did you forget how bad the 2011 Jets really were?

Agreed, I've seen no posts in recent history bashing our drafting. Virtually everyone has acknowledged our significant improvement in prospects.

 

[jetkarma*]

Show me where I said Jets management is incompetent.

I said Chevy has not shown he's highly adept at player movement. I even went out of my way to say he's done it in drafting. I said I'm very scared he might make the wrong moves.

How is that saying he's incompetent? I haven't said that.....your reading deeper into my words.

Just b/c I'm not a Chevy fan boy doesn't mean that I think he's incompetent.

I'm asking a direct question . You can answer or not . You have been very critical and disagreed with the direction he has chosen as I recall , or is that not accurate ? Would you fire Chevy or not ?

 

[Hunter368]

I am quite sure I amnot one who hasn't said anything and more than ok to have what I say reviewed .

Let's be blunt shall we , you think Chevy is at best a mediocre GM ? You feel he shoud be fired and replaced ?

Fired? Hell no!! Never even hinted at that.

Average GM? Hard to say at this point, he's done well at drafting.....hasn't done enough others things to say. This summer will certainly help me decide if he's average or above average. I'm still undecided.

I pull you back to the Chevy rating thread, I never rated him less than a C and recently graded him as high as a B-. Hardly grades I would give him if I thought he was incompetent or should be fired. Agreed?

But that doesn't mean I love everything he does or doesn't do, doesn't mean I have blind faith in him, doesn't mean that I'm a fan boy of his.

Blunt enough for you?

There is a happy medium between fan boy hood and wanting a guy fired.....I fall in the middle. Chevy has done some things well and other things not so well. I see that fact, I give him credit when due but I'm also not shy about calling his poor moves out. IMO this is not a bad thing.

 

[Hunter368]

I'm asking a direct question . You can answer or not . You have been very critical and disagreed with the direction he has chosen as I recall , or is that not accurate ? Would you fire Chevy or not ?

Answered this above.

 

[jetkarma*]

Fired? Hell no. Never even hinted at that.

Average GM? Hard to say at this point, he's done well at drafting.....hasn't done enough others things to say. This summer will certainly help me decide if he's average or above average. I'm still undecided.

I pull you back to the Chevy rating thread , I never rated him less than a C and recently graded him as a B-. Hardly grades I would give him if I thought he was incompetent or should be fired. Agreed?

But that doesn't mean I love everything he does or doesn't do, doesn't mean I have blind faith in him, doesn't mean that I'm a fan boy of his.

Blunt enough for you?

Actually sounds like you're sitting on the fence.

Hasn't done enough other things to say ? Of course he has . Every GM has , you make your evaluation from was done ,what wasn't done , it's all there . You decide from the actualities . Not waiting , right now , from what YOU know or feel , you either would keep him , think he's doing a good job , an indifferent one or a poor one .

From your posts , imo , you think he is not doing a good job overall , that he hasn't done enough to be viewed as the right person for the job . It seems to me you want to be critical of him and feel he has not performed strong enough for your expectations . That is far different than saying steps still need to be taken , it also seems you think it is very easy to move a team that was a disaster to a team that made the playoffs , has a strong coach , has a dramatically improved prospect pool and has improved the depth of the team , and also made multiple trades that facilitated a playoff birth and dealt with at least two questionable Atlanta decisions .

But hey , that you still want to be more negative re the GM than not imo , that is your choice . Completely your choice .

 

[jetkarma*]

Not sure anyone here truely believes that.

Who? Name names

Posts are available to all to read . Just look at some ofthe latest ones .

You want to research , it's easy to do so .

 

[Hunter368]

Actually sounds like you're sitting on the fence.

Hasn't done enough other things to say ? Of course he has . Every GM has , you make your evaluation from was done ,what wasn't done , it's all there . You decide from the actualities . Not waiting , right now , from what YOU know or feel , you either would keep him , think he's doing a good job , an indifferent one or a poor one .

From your posts , imo , you think he is not doing a good job overall , that he hasn't done enough to be viewed as the right person for the job . It seems to me you want to be critical of him and feel he has not performed strong enough for your expectations . That is far different than saying steps still need to be taken , it also seems you think it is very easy to move a team that was a disaster to a team that made the playoffs , has a strong coach , has a dramatically improved prospect pool and has improved the depth of the team , and also made multiple trades that facilitated a playoff birth and dealt with at least two questionable Atlanta decisions .

But hey , that you still want to be more negative re the GM than not imo , that is your choice . Completely your choice .

I answered your question very bluntly, can't say it much clearer. I gave you reasoning and even grades on his performance. Your circling around asking me the same things over again in a round about way.

I have rated him on his performance to date. I started by rating him a C 2-3 years ago, recently I rated him as high as a B-..... I can't make it any clearer. If you don't agree with my rating that's cool, it's my rating. I'm not debating you on my rating vs yours, that's why we all have opinions were all entitled to one.

Cheers I'm off to bed. I'm sure we both can agree on hoping the Jets have a very productive offseason.

We're way off topic.

 

[Hunter368]

Posts are available to all to read . Just look at some ofthe latest ones .

You want to research , it's easy to do so .

Seen none in recent history. Sorry if you want to prove it, it's up to you to provide evidence of people posting this. I'm here every day and I haven't seen anything recently.

 

[mcpw]

Hindsight:
I mean, we did "soft tanking" all the years. 9,13,9. Where would we be with actual tanking?
2011: sell Ladd, Byfuglien, Enstrom at the draft, maybe get 3 first round picks out of it.
Best case mid-late first round with today's hindsight: J.T.Miller, Oscar Klefbom, Boone Jenner. Maybe Chevy does a homerun and picks Brandon Saad. Doesn't look like a deep draft today.
2012: pick top3, get Yakupov/Murray/Galchenyuk instead of Trouba
2013: good draft. Pick top5, get somebody like Barkov/Jones/Monahan instead of Morrissey.
2014: pick top5, get somebody like Draisaitl or Dal Colle instead of Ehlers.
Fail to attract any free agent in the process because we're a bottom5 team in the prairies. Would we be in a better position now?

Hindsight #2:
Chevy made one decision which actively hurt the franchise going forward: signing Pavelec. And then the Noel stuff.
Some argue that not using a compliance buyout was another one, but we can't look behind the scenes, maybe it was not an option.
Some swings and misses: a second round pick for Lukas Sutter, a second round pick for Devin Setoguchi. Both only did minor damage, as missing with a second round pick is pretty normal.
Not providing depth: well, every decent UFA found a franchise to play with. Maybe we just couldn't get good depth.
Hanging onto Kane: we don't know the offers.
Stuart/Thorburn contracts: that's really minor stuff. Every team has at least 4M locked up in "bad" players.

Why this offseason counts a lot: Chevy can make moves that hurt the franchise going forward. Handing out albatross contracts (Ladd, Byfuglien, even Stafford), or not clarifying the Byfuglien/Ladd situations, eventually losing them to UFA. Losing the newly found attractiveness for free agents (WPG=playoff team) by not being able to fill the forward holes appropriately. There's even the possibility of trying to win too hard, trading assets for 2 or 3 vets like Patrick Sharp.
We have every right to be nervous.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Wow .... a lot of musts ....

Actually like last year and the year before and the year before , I'll let Chevy do what he does soooooooooooooooooooooooooo much better than what a lot of posters on here say what has to happen .

Surprised there isn't talk of tanking for Matthews already .

List was twice as long last year although there were some either/or s in there as well.

Actually I am looking forward to watching what interesting things Chevy does this year. If he stands pat we will have a lot of youth on the team next year.

 

[Holden Caulfield]

Hindsight:
I mean, we did "soft tanking" all the years. 9,13,9. Where would we be with actual tanking?
2011: sell Ladd, Byfuglien, Enstrom at the draft, maybe get 3 first round picks out of it.
Best case mid-late first round with today's hindsight: J.T.Miller, Oscar Klefbom, Boone Jenner. Maybe Chevy does a homerun and picks Brandon Saad. Doesn't look like a deep draft today.
2012: pick top3, get Yakupov/Murray/Galchenyuk instead of Trouba
2013: good draft. Pick top5, get somebody like Barkov/Jones/Monahan instead of Morrissey.
2014: pick top5, get somebody like Draisaitl or Dal Colle instead of Ehlers.
Fail to attract any free agent in the process because we're a bottom5 team in the prairies. Would we be in a better position now?

Hindsight #2:
Chevy made one decision which actively hurt the franchise going forward: signing Pavelec. And then the Noel stuff.
Some argue that not using a compliance buyout was another one, but we can't look behind the scenes, maybe it was not an option.
Some swings and misses: a second round pick for Lukas Sutter, a second round pick for Devin Setoguchi. Both only did minor damage, as missing with a second round pick is pretty normal.
Not providing depth: well, every decent UFA found a franchise to play with. Maybe we just couldn't get good depth.
Hanging onto Kane: we don't know the offers.
Stuart/Thorburn contracts: that's really minor stuff. Every team has at least 4M locked up in "bad" players.

Why this offseason counts a lot: Chevy can make moves that hurt the franchise going forward. Handing out albatross contracts (Ladd, Byfuglien, even Stafford), or not clarifying the Byfuglien/Ladd situations, eventually losing them to UFA. Losing the newly found attractiveness for free agents (WPG=playoff team) by not being able to fill the forward holes appropriately. There's even the possibility of trying to win too hard, trading assets for 2 or 3 vets like Patrick Sharp.
We have every right to be nervous.

That's an awful lot of assumptions about path not taken.

 

[mcpw]

That's an awful lot of assumptions about path not taken.

That's why it's not a free pass for Chevy.
The only assumption I'm pretty confident about is that the Pavelec buyout was vetoed.
Kane and forward depth: here I think he wasn't aggressive enough.

 

[Hunter368]

Hindsight:
I mean, we did "soft tanking" all the years. 9,13,9. Where would we be with actual tanking?
2011: sell Ladd, Byfuglien, Enstrom at the draft, maybe get 3 first round picks out of it.
Best case mid-late first round with today's hindsight: J.T.Miller, Oscar Klefbom, Boone Jenner. Maybe Chevy does a homerun and picks Brandon Saad. Doesn't look like a deep draft today.
2012: pick top3, get Yakupov/Murray/Galchenyuk instead of Trouba
2013: good draft. Pick top5, get somebody like Barkov/Jones/Monahan instead of Morrissey.
2014: pick top5, get somebody like Draisaitl or Dal Colle instead of Ehlers.
Fail to attract any free agent in the process because we're a bottom5 team in the prairies. Would we be in a better position now?

Hindsight #2:
Chevy made one decision which actively hurt the franchise going forward: signing Pavelec. And then the Noel stuff.
Some argue that not using a compliance buyout was another one, but we can't look behind the scenes, maybe it was not an option.
Some swings and misses: a second round pick for Lukas Sutter, a second round pick for Devin Setoguchi. Both only did minor damage, as missing with a second round pick is pretty normal.
Not providing depth: well, every decent UFA found a franchise to play with. Maybe we just couldn't get good depth.
Hanging onto Kane: we don't know the offers.
Stuart/Thorburn contracts: that's really minor stuff. Every team has at least 4M locked up in "bad" players.

Why this offseason counts a lot: Chevy can make moves that hurt the franchise going forward. Handing out albatross contracts (Ladd, Byfuglien, even Stafford), or not clarifying the Byfuglien/Ladd situations, eventually losing them to UFA. Losing the newly found attractiveness for free agents (WPG=playoff team) by not being able to fill the forward holes appropriately. There's even the possibility of trying to win too hard, trading assets for 2 or 3 vets like Patrick Sharp.
We have every right to be nervous.

I agree 100% with hindsight #2, sums it up nicely. Well said.

 

[KingBogo]

Hindsight:
I mean, we did "soft tanking" all the years. 9,13,9. Where would we be with actual tanking?
2011: sell Ladd, Byfuglien, Enstrom at the draft, maybe get 3 first round picks out of it.
Best case mid-late first round with today's hindsight: J.T.Miller, Oscar Klefbom, Boone Jenner. Maybe Chevy does a homerun and picks Brandon Saad. Doesn't look like a deep draft today.
2012: pick top3, get Yakupov/Murray/Galchenyuk instead of Trouba
2013: good draft. Pick top5, get somebody like Barkov/Jones/Monahan instead of Morrissey.
2014: pick top5, get somebody like Draisaitl or Dal Colle instead of Ehlers.
Fail to attract any free agent in the process because we're a bottom5 team in the prairies. Would we be in a better position now?

Hindsight #2:
Chevy made one decision which actively hurt the franchise going forward: signing Pavelec. And then the Noel stuff.
Some argue that not using a compliance buyout was another one, but we can't look behind the scenes, maybe it was not an option.
Some swings and misses: a second round pick for Lukas Sutter, a second round pick for Devin Setoguchi. Both only did minor damage, as missing with a second round pick is pretty normal.
Not providing depth: well, every decent UFA found a franchise to play with. Maybe we just couldn't get good depth.
Hanging onto Kane: we don't know the offers.
Stuart/Thorburn contracts: that's really minor stuff. Every team has at least 4M locked up in "bad" players.

Why this offseason counts a lot: Chevy can make moves that hurt the franchise going forward. Handing out albatross contracts (Ladd, Byfuglien, even Stafford), or not clarifying the Byfuglien/Ladd situations, eventually losing them to UFA. Losing the newly found attractiveness for free agents (WPG=playoff team) by not being able to fill the forward holes appropriately. There's even the possibility of trying to win too hard, trading assets for 2 or 3 vets like Patrick Sharp.
We have every right to be nervous.

Agreed that this off season is critical. Chevy needs to be decisive and make moves. If we re-sign both Ladd and Buff Chevy can't give out contracts that handcuff the team in the future. If he trades Buff he needs to do it no later then on the draft floor IMO, so we can start filling the holes. But count me among the confident camp. For now I trust significant moves will be made and we will take another step as a team. If however we get to mid August and our biggest moves are re-signing Hali and O'Dell to 2-way contracts that is a different story.

 

[Huffer]

Agreed that this off season is critical. Chevy needs to be decisive and make moves. If we re-sign both Ladd and Buff Chevy can't give out contracts that handcuff the team in the future. If he trades Buff he needs to do it no later then on the draft floor IMO, so we can start filling the holes. But count me among the confident camp. For now I trust significant moves will be made and we will take another step as a team. If however we get to mid August and our biggest moves are re-signing Hali and O'Dell to 2-way contracts that is a different story.

Agreed. We've known that this offseason would be one of the biggest for the Jets for the last 2 or 3 seasons IMO (with Ladd and Buff's contracts being up). The UFA's in Frolik, Stafford, Stempniak, and Tlusty just add to it.

But count me in the confident camp as well. No GM or management is perfect, and what smaller moves that haven't worked out to me pale in comparison to all the good moves that this organization has made since relocation.

That's not to say I'm not "nervous" about this offseason. But that doesn't have to do with Chevy specifically. It's just the situation we are in. Any GM would have their hands full here right now. It's not like one of the token "loved" GM's here could just walk in here and get Ladd and or Buff to sign sweatheart deals because they love the sound of his voice.

 

[Whileee]

Agreed that this off season is critical. Chevy needs to be decisive and make moves. If we re-sign both Ladd and Buff Chevy can't give out contracts that handcuff the team in the future. If he trades Buff he needs to do it no later then on the draft floor IMO, so we can start filling the holes. But count me among the confident camp. For now I trust significant moves will be made and we will take another step as a team. If however we get to mid August and our biggest moves are re-signing Hali and O'Dell to 2-way contracts that is a different story.

I think it's highly unlikely that the Jets trade Ladd. I expect he'll get a contract extension.

On balance, I think they should trade Buff, but I won't be surprised if they also give him an extension with the plan to play him on LD.

If they do trade Buff, then I don't see the need to do that on the draft floor. As I've noted before, draft picks are over-valued at the draft. Maybe the occasion would allow for a trade of good young players and prospects for Buff, but if they use Buff to get a first round pick I don't think they are likely to be getting enough in return.

 

[Hunter368]

I think it's highly unlikely that the Jets trade Ladd. I expect he'll get a contract extension.

On balance, I think they should trade Buff, but I won't be surprised if they also give him an extension with the plan to play him on LD.

If they do trade Buff, then I don't see the need to do that on the draft floor. As I've noted before, draft picks are over-valued at the draft. Maybe the occasion would allow for a trade of good young players and prospects for Buff, but if they use Buff to get a first round pick I don't think they are likely to be getting enough in return.

Agreed. I'm not saying I don't have some faith, just not blind faith like some. Huffer said it right, I'm just very nervous right now, a wrong move could hurt this team bad now.

 

[Jets 31]

I think Buff and Ladd are very highly looked at in the Jets room and by management and owner , one thing about Chipman is he is very loyal , hence giving Noel the head coaching job when Noel was not a NHL caliber coach . If i had to bet , i think Buff and Ladd are going to both get signed long term .

 

[Jetabre]

Alright Chevy time to see a re-signing today.