Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi - Part 18

[Roadhouse]

Most of KK's detractors were responding to the hyperbolic expectations placed on this kid. His fans were proclaiming him a #1 center when he hadn't proved anything yet. Despite his decent run in these playoffs he still hasn't proven he can be a top-six center. He is 7th in points on the team and has the 2nd worst +/-. If his critics say he will not be a top-line center is that really calling him a bust or just being realistic about this kid's skill set? Personally, I see him as a 3rd line center and these playoffs haven't shown me he has it to be anything more.

You want to see what a young top-line center looks like? Take a gander at his teammate: Nick Suzuki. And not in these playoffs. In last year's playoffs. Compare Suzuki from last year to KK of this year and there's a world of difference in quality between these players. Having said that, I'm not calling KK a bust. I'm just saying he won't be a quality top 6 center and many of his detractors were saying the same thing.

I agree with almost everything you say...though I'm not convinced he doesn't have in him to not b a 2nd line C. I still see that. And I hope that the organization does. 'CAuse if not, well you better trade him. If that guy only has an upside as a 3rd line C in reality, I would bet other teams think he has more than that. Hence a great value. We will see what they do. Personally, and what I think will happen, is that this guy is a keeper. And will be a 2nd line C. Not sure why he wouldn't evolve the way a guy like William Karlsson evolved.

But yes, the famous KK detractors that some are talking about were mostly people who didn't believe in what THEY were preaching which was, ship Danaut to the moon, give JK IMMEDIATELY top 6 action and insanely tough assignments and you'll see him blossom. It would not have happened. It might though in the near future.

Right there with you guys. 2C or 3C doesn't matter to me, I am abzzzzolutely fine with him being one of two middle-six C for the next 10-15 years in MTL. KK's development has not stopped and Price won't all of sudden be useless tomorrow morning.

We're in much better shape than some of straight up doom & gloom posts from the last ~year or so made it out to be. On the up & up since 2020 Draft. That includes KK. The meat will come.

 

[Whitesnake]

Cause they did it for Desharnais and not for Galchenyuk. Desharnais but not for Eller.

It's really not that long ago that we've seen players get preferential treatment over better younger players, so you can understand where the skepticism comes from.

Yes. But Therrien isn't Julien. And Therrien isn't Ducharme. The day that Therrien told us at a press conference that he wouldn't send Eller in a shootout 'cause the guy hasn't scored in a month...but would send Desharnais in a shootout 'cause the guy hasn't scored in a month and wanted him to get going....tells you EVERYTHING you need to know about Therrien...but NOTHING about the other coaches. I haven't heard a stupidest comment that comes close to that by any of the following coaches.

 

[waitin425]

Man I wish some of you would get off the shitting on KK. He is playing with so much heart these playoffs and is going to be a great player for us. Someone above highlighted his willingness to crash the net and score greasy goals. We have a vet currently playing who has made a career off that and has been outstanding. For reference....

In Corey Perry's 20 year old season he played 56 games and had 13 goals 25 points.

In his 21 year old season Perry had 17 goals and 44 points for the full season.

By his 25 year old season he won the Rocket.

KK is learning from some great vets these playoffs at 20 years old. He should be here for a long time to come!

 

[azcanuck]

Man I wish some of you would get off the shitting on KK. He is playing with so much heart these playoffs and is going to be a great player for us. Someone above highlighted his willingness to crash the net and score greasy goals. We have a vet currently playing who has made a career off that and has been outstanding. For reference....

In Corey Perry's 20 year old season he played 56 games and had 13 goals 25 points.

In his 21 year old season Perry had 17 goals and 44 points for the full season.

By his 25 year old season he won the Rocket.

KK is learning from some great vets these playoffs at 20 years old. He should be here for a long time to come!

KK can learn from Perry but he's not Perry (pretty unique player). Perry may have the best hand/eye coordination I've ever seen. Off the charts hockey I.Q. , and a major troll on the ice.

 

[waitin425]

KK can learn from Perry but he's not Perry (pretty unique player). Perry may have the best hand/eye coordination I've ever seen. Off the charts hockey I.Q. , and a major troll on the ice.

There are some similarities but no he isn't Perry. My point was KK has a ton of development left. He is still young and can be a very impactful player.

I hope all of our young guys are learning something from Perry!

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Cause they did it for Desharnais and not for Galchenyuk. Desharnais but not for Eller.

It's really not that long ago that we've seen players get preferential treatment over better younger players, so you can understand where the skepticism comes from.

Oh I remember and sure it's not for nothing. But I'd just as soon take CC and Suzuki who are more likely examples. Especially because they couldn't be more contemporaneous.

 

[dackelljuneaubulis02]

Right there with you guys. 2C or 3C doesn't matter to me, I am abzzzzolutely fine with him being one of two middle-six C for the next 10-15 years in MTL. KK's development has not stopped and Price won't all of sudden be useless tomorrow morning.

We're in much better shape than some of straight up doom & gloom posts from the last ~year or so made it out to be. On the up & up since 2020 Draft. That includes KK. The meat will come.

And though most of the best young players are with the team now, I still REALLY like our prospects. They can fill holes and be upgrades. I think we're in really good shape going forward.

 

[azcanuck]

It is impressive.

 

[Roadhouse]

It is impressive.

 

[montreal]

There's one thing though....where's the outrage for the mismanagement of young players lately? You bash at posters that wrongly would call the kid a bust...but you are about to do that, it's because he's looking better. And if he looks better, well there are no whining about management too no? Nobody can't have it both ways. Suzuki is well used. Caufield is well used. JK is well used. And Romanov should be well used next year. Unless...we are overrating him. But hey, if Bergevin trades the kid next year....I guess he'll be right too no?

I've complained about the mismanagement of prospects for years under MB, I don't need to bring it up every day. This team is on a fun run so there's no need for me to keep beating a dead horse during the run, let the fans enjoy this moment imo.

I'm not bashing posters for calling him a bust, I'm calling out the posters for making this a shit thread. If we lose a game do you see Gallagher's thread get 8 pages of shit, or Danault's, or Weber or Petry, etc... on average. No, for some reason though it's always the KK thread, it gets tons of shit posts. We had 30 pages in 5 freaking days last week. That's insane.

When he looks better, you can still complain about management, I don't see why not. He's a project and he's far from a finished one, he's going to have lots of ups and downs but no matter how he plays it doesn't mean they didn't do a shit job handling him.

If MB trades KK which I don't see happening but it would be stuipd unless the return was just too good to pass up. But why not wait and see instead of pointless speculation on what MB might do.

 

[Whitesnake]

I've complained about the mismanagement of prospects for years under MB, I don't need to bring it up every day. This team is on a fun run so there's no need for me to keep beating a dead horse during the run, let the fans enjoy this moment imo.

I'm not bashing posters for calling him a bust, I'm calling out the posters for making this a shit thread. If we lose a game do you see Gallagher's thread get 8 pages of shit, or Danault's, or Weber or Petry, etc... on average. No, for some reason though it's always the KK thread, it gets tons of shit posts. We had 30 pages in 5 freaking days last week. That's insane.

When he looks better, you can still complain about management, I don't see why not. He's a project and he's far from a finished one, he's going to have lots of ups and downs but no matter how he plays it doesn't mean they didn't do a shit job handling him.

If MB trades KK which I don't see happening but it would be stuipd unless the return was just too good to pass up. But why not wait and see instead of pointless speculation on what MB might do.

Makes perfect sense to not have threads about Gallagher. Or Danault. Or Weber. 'Cause JK, a 3rd overall pick, was picked to make this franchise a great one. NOBODY expected us to be where we are today. So the ONLY goal was to pick right. For future success. Gallagher, we already determined that the guy was on his way down. Same for Weber. Danault, during the regular, was not on his way down, he was on his way out. And frankly, if there's a guy who keeps being crapped on it's him. Petry has given the fans not a lot to crap on.

Again, we have to make the difference between the analysis of players. And the bashing of posters. There's less JK bashing than posters bashing about JK usage. There's probably less Danault the player bashing than posters bashing about what we believe should be usage.

There are NEVER 10 pages of players's bashing. There's often 1 page of players bashing....and 9 pages of posters bashing each other....

It's always about the return. I don,t believe we'Ll trade him. But if you do and happens to make a package to get a Jack Eichel....you do it no matter where JK's ceiling end up being.

 

[montreal]

He falls down and doesn't get a point but what a screen by KK there.

Makes perfect sense to not have threads about Gallagher. Or Danault. Or Weber. 'Cause JK, a 3rd overall pick, was picked to make this franchise a great one. NOBODY expected us to be where we are today. So the ONLY goal was to pick right. For future success. Gallagher, we already determined that the guy was on his way down. Same for Weber. Danault, during the regular, was not on his way down, he was on his way out. And frankly, if there's a guy who keeps being crapped on it's him. Petry has given the fans not a lot to crap on.

Again, we have to make the difference between the analysis of players. And the bashing of posters. There's less JK bashing than posters bashing about JK usage. There's probably less Danault the player bashing than posters bashing about what we believe should be usage.

There are NEVER 10 pages of players's bashing. There's often 1 page of players bashing....and 9 pages of posters bashing each other....

It's always about the return. I don,t believe we'Ll trade him. But if you do and happens to make a package to get a Jack Eichel....you do it no matter where JK's ceiling end up being.

total BS, hockey is a team sport, you don't go blaming the 20 year old project.

 

[Whitesnake]

total BS, hockey is a team sport, you don't go blaming the 20 year old project.

If hockey is a team sport, you don't blame anybody personnally from a prospect to a vet.

And yet you disregard my point about the supposed 10 pages of bashing, when there's actually always more posters bashing than players bashing themselves. As far as ''you shouldn't do this or that'', maybe so. Yet, a board has to be a reflection fo society. Where there are TONS of examples of people that shouldn'T do this or that.

 

[montreal]

If hockey is a team sport, you don't blame anybody personnally from a prospect to a vet.

so hockey's not a team sport? I said before on average, you don't see other players getting 8 pages of shit after a loss, just KK. If Price pulled a Fleury and cost us the game, then of course you blame him. Chances are it wouldn't be the sole reason we lost but you can understand why fans would take out their frustration by blaming Price since it's the easy target. My point is even when he does good things but if we lose, most of the time there's like 8 pages of shit in the KK, no other player is getting this despite him being the youngest guy on the team for most of the year.

 

[le_sean]

Thought he had a very average game but nice screen on the Weber goal. Let’s hope he can play more like Game 5 in the Finals. He needs to find that consistency.

 

[canucklover123]

Thought he had a very average game but nice screen on the Weber goal. Let’s hope he can play more like Game 5 in the Finals. He needs to find that consistency.

I thought they had a good first, last two games they were really on too.

No surprise when Anderson finally decides to play hockey, the line looks much better in spades. KK and byron did their thing too. There best series forsure

 

[montreal]

his line had a great series, really stepped up and hopefully he gains a ton of valuable experience from these last 2 years of playoff hockey. Kid is going to be a beast once he gets the skating, lower body strength and works on getting his shot off quicker/more accurate.

 

[Nedved]

He’s creates so much space for his wingers in the offensive end. He’s fantastic. He just isn’t consistent. Hopefully it comes but he’s a beast at opening up space for his wingers and d.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

his line had a great series, really stepped up and hopefully he gains a ton of valuable experience from these last 2 years of playoff hockey. Kid is going to be a beast once he gets the skating, lower body strength and works on getting his shot off quicker/more accurate.

I found KK struggled early but got better as the series wore on. Love that he produced the way he did and he absolutely deserves credit for the screen on tonight's goal. Kid is clutch!

Hopefully this quiets the stupid "but he has no assists in 20 games" type crap we've been reading here. People need to seriously re-examine how they evaluate players on here. The idea that him being 20 is an 'excuse' was so stupid to read. And I find it so ironic that people who are supposedly for rebuilding would go on to trash this guy. Not every prospect is going to be Caufield.

 

[Sens]

Leads a cup finalist in ES goals
Some of the takes in this thread lol

 

[Walrus26]

Thought he had a very average game but nice screen on the Weber goal. Let’s hope he can play more like Game 5 in the Finals. He needs to find that consistency.

I thought he got more and more physically implicated as the game grew more pressurised, actually.

He was forechecking like an angry rottweiler in the 3rd and was doing soild C work in our end throughout.

Unscored primary assist from Weber's goal too.

GG Well played if you ask me.

 

[Skip Bayless]

On this day, and only this day:

-Danault is not an offensive blackhole
-Lehkonen's shot is accurate
-KK is not a bust

GOOD DAY Y'ALL!

 

[Habs Halifax]

Thought he had a very average game but nice screen on the Weber goal. Let’s hope he can play more like Game 5 in the Finals. He needs to find that consistency.

Some are stat watching too much when we have KK focused on the intangibles. I think he's on a good track. Not a steep one like Suzuki and Caufield but his hill is a long upward direction. Just going to take longer than some want.

He's been playing well for us as the 3rd wheel for our 4 lines. Have faith Habs fans! Trust the process

 

[Archijerej]

Key play on the Weber goal tonight. The fact that he blew a tire and fell on his ass first, before getting up and racing to the front of the net, neatly encapsulates his playoffs thus far. Awkward as hell, but effective.

 

[26Mats]

Some are stat watching too much when we have KK focused on the intangibles. I think he's on a good track. Not a steep one like Suzuki and Caufield but his hill is a long upward direction. Just going to take longer than some want.

He's been playing well for us as the 3rd wheel for our 4 lines. Have faith Habs fans! Trust the process

I would curious to see the counterfactual:
Replay Kk's first 3 years with at least the first two spent developing in Junior and/or the AHL.
But reality doesn't allow such curiosity to be fulfilled.

I have noticed him gradually developing more patience with the puck, allowing himself to survey the play. Once he adds more strength for puck protection, he should a good playmaker. Plus he's good around the front of the net and has a good shot. Really looking forward to seeing him at 24/25 - and playing with players with offensive aptitude.