Player Discussion Jesperi Kotkaniemi Part 16

[Miller Time]

Sorry, I don’t see that at all, that’s my biggest issue with his play...he’s rarely creating opportunities let alone consistently creating opportunities.

As I posted yesterday, if it was that obvious that the root cause of his lack of production was his line-mates not finishing off plays, if I as a fan could see that, the trained hockey professionals would see it from a mile away, but sadly that’s not even close to reality of the situation.

well, the broadcast last night goes completely contradicts your assessment...

shoot, the TSN turning point that played right before we tied it was a scoring chance off a play he initiated lol

so either you weren't really watching the game, or your bias has some seriously thick blinders on

either way, it really poses an interesting question as to how & why the narrative has taken such a firm hold among some posters... it's not much different than the Caps fans tripping over themselves to defend Wilson. Complete disconnect from what is actually occuring. Fascinating.

 

[Miller Time]

Has it been mentionned he took a slash to the ankle ?

didn't catch that... saw him go down there at one point in the third, but he seemed fine in skating over to the bench... would be nice to know that it was precautionary rather than punitive in keeping him off the ice late in a game where he was playing very well.

 

[salbutera]

didn't catch that... saw him go down there at one point in the third, but he seemed fine in skating over to the bench... would be nice to know that it was precautionary rather than punitive in keeping him off the ice late in a game where he was playing very well.

Dom Dom was asked post game if an injury was why KK didn’t see anymore TOI....he said “he’s not injured” in a very stern voice

 

[morhilane]

Sorry, I don’t see that at all, that’s my biggest issue with his play...he’s rarely creating opportunities let alone consistently creating opportunities.

As I posted yesterday, if it was that obvious that the root cause of his lack of production was his line-mates not finishing off plays, if I as a fan could see that, the trained hockey professionals would see it from a mile away, but sadly that’s not even close to reality of the situation.

And which trained hockey professional is that? Because all the ones I'm reading, who aren't behind the bench, are saying similar things to what Mrb1p is saying and wondering why Ducharme has KK playing LW after his first game at the position when it was clear that he wasn't comfortable there and never really played it.

 

[salbutera]

And which trained hockey professional is that? Because all the ones I'm reading, who aren't behind the bench, are saying similar things to what Mrb1p is saying and wondering why Ducharme has KK playing LW after his first game at the position when it was clear that he wasn't comfortable there and never really played it.

Marc Denis this morning said KK is not bringing enough which is why he was benched last 9-min, (Momesso, Ferraro and Gord a Miller all said the same in the last week), McGuire said if KKs performance doesn’t improve significantly by this Xmas, need to accept it was at he wrong selection at #3.

 

[FrankMTL]

My issue with KK is that he tends to lose the puck very often. I don't know if it's his decision making that is still too slow or not, but it seems like his passes are often picked off or even when he tries to shoot it in the opposing teams zone, he hits it off a guys leg or he just flat out gets it intercepted. I know he's young, and I love him, but I just wish he would make better decisions with the puck. There's also the consistency thing where one shift he's flat out amazing and hitting guys and creating stuff and then he disappears for the next 3-4 shifts. But again, that's also being young and being inconsistent.

The good news in all this is that his next contract won't be too expensive.

Fans tend to always want to compare him to other players in terms of whag age they broke out (whether it's negative or positive) but in the end every player is different and KK is no exception. We can only hope he brings it up a notch for the playoffs and in the coming seasons as we desperately need him to produce.

 

[morhilane]

Did he get injured? Why wasn't he playing at the end of the game?

Because Ducharme decided he was doing so (said it wasn't because of injury).

It's not the first time and it has zero correlation with:

- how well or good KK is actually playing. He was near benched in the 3rd period of a game where he got the first star (skipped shifts) and he didn't get benched for lots of games where he was having a worst night then last night.

- how close the game are. In the last Jets game, where the Habs tied and won the game late in the 3rd, KK had the shift after the tying goal and the final shift of the game (not with the same linemates) and he played better against the Leafs last night then he did against the Jets (first game at LW) in my opinion.

- he got benched when there were worst player (s) on the ice that were not benched (ex: post Covid-break bad Drouin).

I'm not even sure Ducharme wants to have Caufield in the line-up either, 7:37 at 5v5 last night and he wasn't benched.

 

[Ozmodiar]

Sorry, I don’t see that at all, that’s my biggest issue with his play...he’s rarely creating opportunities let alone consistently creating opportunities.

As I posted yesterday, if it was that obvious that the root cause of his lack of production was his line-mates not finishing off plays, if I as a fan could see that, the trained hockey professionals would see it from a mile away, but sadly that’s not even close to reality of the situation.

Do you see a pattern? KK's line mates have been criticized all season in this thread.

Take a look at the comments back in January. Armia and Toffoli were a terrible duo for KK. How could that line possibly work? Now they're part of the best offensive line we've seen in years.

When Anderson was paired with KK after the TDL, there were no complaints. Andy was the "Powerhorse". Now? Andy's not playing well, they should play KK with the "hot hand".

 

[HotPie]

well, the broadcast last night goes completely contradicts your assessment...

shoot, the TSN turning point that played right before we tied it was a scoring chance off a play he initiated lol

so either you weren't really watching the game, or your bias has some seriously thick blinders on

either way, it really poses an interesting question as to how & why the narrative has taken such a firm hold among some posters... it's not much different than the Caps fans tripping over themselves to defend Wilson. Complete disconnect from what is actually occuring. Fascinating.

People are allowed to have a differing opinion from you without being deluded and "disconnected from reality".

The only delusion I see in this thread are from people proclaiming to know what kind of player he's going to be in the future.

 

[LaP]

He played a great game though? Is every game just blindly hate on KK now? Lmao

Nobody hate JK. I don't understand why some guy equate saying the guy wont be a 1st line player to hating the guy. I don't think he'll develop into a solid 1st line center but it doesn't mean i hate him. I don't hate him at all he's a good 3rd line center who might develop into a solid 2nd line center. This is how i see it. I might be wrong obviously.

 

[Canadiens98]

Sometimes I feel like Kotkaniemi makes these amazing passes to the stick of one of our guys but they had no idea the puck would make it to them.

 

[Toligwen]

didn't catch that... saw him go down there at one point in the third, but he seemed fine in skating over to the bench... would be nice to know that it was precautionary rather than punitive in keeping him off the ice late in a game where he was playing very well.

Pay attention to Brodie. (I started timer a little before to show how childish his behaviour was)
2 handed pure retaliatory slash

I've been trying to find extensive clip and angles for 2 hours now

Ed: in case the starttime isn't synchronized when you watch, it's 6:25 and on. The replay right after doesn't show whta happens after his shot

 

[DAChampion]

Sorry, I don’t see that at all, that’s my biggest issue with his play...he’s rarely creating opportunities let alone consistently creating opportunities.

As I posted yesterday, if it was that obvious that the root cause of his lack of production was his line-mates not finishing off plays, if I as a fan could see that, the trained hockey professionals would see it from a mile away, but sadly that’s not even close to reality of the situation.

Kotkaniemi played very well last unit, particularly in the first period and on the 2nd PP with Caulfield and Romanov.

 

[Miller Time]

People are allowed to have a differing opinion from you without being deluded and "disconnected from reality".

The only delusion I see in this thread are from people proclaiming to know what kind of player he's going to be in the future.

funny, the only posters i see claiming they know definitively what kind of player he's going to be in the future are the ones claiming certainty he "won't ever be a top-6 C"... glad we agree that this is a delusional take.

also funny how you contradict yourself in your own post... but hey, arguing for the sake of arguing will do that.

Not all opinions are valid or equal. Some are, as you point out, "delusional". Again, we can agree there.

 

[Miller Time]

Nobody hate JK. I don't understand why some guy equate saying the guy wont be a 1st line player to hating the guy. I don't think he'll develop into a solid 1st line center but it doesn't mean i hate him. I don't hate him at all he's a good 3rd line center who might develop into a solid 2nd line center. This is how i see it. I might be wrong obviously.

this is quite different than a lot of the bad takes being thrown around this thread daily...

 

[HotPie]

funny, the only posters i see claiming they know definitively what kind of player he's going to be in the future are the ones claiming certainty he "won't ever be a top-6 C"... glad we agree that this is a delusional take.

also funny how you contradict yourself in your own post... but hey, arguing for the sake of arguing will do that.

Not all opinions are valid or equal. Some are, as you point out, "delusional". Again, we can agree there.

How am I contradicting myself?

All I see is a very common theme in most of your posts where anyone who disagrees with you is either deluded, biased, or disconnected from reality, and that you somehow have "superior opinions" to everyone else who disagrees with you. While at the same time seemingly oblivious to your own biases.

It's pretty hilarious actually.

 

[Habs Icing]

Marc Denis this morning said KK is not bringing enough which is why he was benched last 9-min, (Momesso, Ferraro and Gord a Miller all said the same in the last week), McGuire said if KKs performance doesn’t improve significantly by this Xmas, need to accept it was at he wrong selection at #3.

Yeah but he didn't mean those hockey pros. He meant other ones.

 

[Ozmodiar]

My issue with KK is that he tends to lose the puck very often. I don't know if it's his decision making that is still too slow or not, but it seems like his passes are often picked off or even when he tries to shoot it in the opposing teams zone, he hits it off a guys leg or he just flat out gets it intercepted. I know he's young, and I love him, but I just wish he would make better decisions with the puck. There's also the consistency thing where one shift he's flat out amazing and hitting guys and creating stuff and then he disappears for the next 3-4 shifts. But again, that's also being young and being consistent.

Agree with the bolded.

The good news in all this is that his next contract won't be too expensive.

Fans tend to always want to compare him to other players in terms of whag age they broke out (whether it's negative or positive) but in the end every player is different and KK is no exception. We can only hope he brings it up a notch for the playoffs and in the coming seasons as we desperately need him to produce.

True
Now for the bad news ...

... the savings will be spent on Danault!

In June, when they whiteboard the 2021-22 lineup, they likely won't slot a center on a 32 point pace into the top 6. So, .... get ready for more Danault. (I like PD, but worry about that contract)

 

[Habz4]

The KID needs some stability and confidence pumped into him. He keeps getting bounced around the line up and benched for no apparent reason. Even if you think you made the wrong choice you still need to accept it and work with him.

 

[Habz4]

By the way I agree that he is underperforming but so is 90% of the players on this team

 

[Miller Time]

How am I contradicting myself?

All I see is a very common theme in most of your posts where anyone who disagrees with you is either deluded, biased, or disconnected from reality, and that you somehow have "superior opinions" to everyone else who disagrees with you.

It's pretty hilarious actually.

re read your post, it's pretty blatant.

you might also want to read my posts as well. differing opinions is what a forum is about, so to is having opinions open to scrutiny. a bad take is a bad take, wether i happen to agree with it or not is a completely different question. Someone offering up a take wihtout any tangible evidence or logic consistency is, more often than not, some for of delusion/bias/cognitive dissonance et.

superior arguments are well grounded ones, some of us post here in the hopes of improving and strengthening our knowledge and context of the game. Being wrong is a given, and the best way forward. It's the childish attachment to being right that is more often than not at the root of the piss poor takes that unfortunately crowd certain threads... c'est la vie.

go back through the thread... the constant theme is there are a certain number of posters who offer nothing but emotion as explanation for why JKO sucks... and no amount of evidence, ample as it is, that contradicts the narrative behind their take gets taken into consideration. That, imo, is the epitome of delusion... have a take, don't suck... and certainly don't cry about it when it gets scrutinized.

 

[Mrb1p]

Your subconscious trying to tell you something. You're not sure if he played a great game. You have to ask.

Also, I can reverse the tables and ask you, "is every game just a blind love fest for you"? KK 's game last night was just slightly better than Romanov's.

No, its a rhetorical question.

You are being ridiculous if you are calling Kks game just slightly better than Romanov who made two mistakes that directly lead to breakaways, lmao.

Sorry, I don’t see that at all, that’s my biggest issue with his play...he’s rarely creating opportunities let alone consistently creating opportunities.

As I posted yesterday, if it was that obvious that the root cause of his lack of production was his line-mates not finishing off plays, if I as a fan could see that, the trained hockey professionals would see it from a mile away, but sadly that’s not even close to reality of the situation.

It is not obvious and the onus is on him to produce, not his linemates but he does create a lot of chances, he also created a good chance with his shot on the PP last night but he needs to score himself, just like Suzuki started doing.

Also f*** the trained professional, please. Stop with that shitty ass argument. The shitty ass professionals thought Evans should be sitting for 40% of the season. The shitty ass professionals are using Kotkaniemi and Caufield on their off sides on the PP. The trained professionals aren't even actually trained, there's no training to get you there, there is no degree, no cursus, no classes, no standards, its just good ole who knows who.



1:54 opens up space for Romanov with a high-skill pass, Caufield has a lot of time and space and does Caufield things.
2:50 takes a hard shot with a good release forcing a big save from Campbell
6:20 another had shot that almost gets through, Anderson snakebiten with 3 goals in his last 17 games.

He didn't play a second after that.

 

[Frankenheimer]

Sometimes I feel like Kotkaniemi makes these amazing passes to the stick of one of our guys but they had no idea the puck would make it to them.

Yes, same feeling. KK makes amazing passes that unfortunately are not converted and could change a lot of about the way he is perceived. I see him contributing a lot to possession, forechecking, cycling, and even making those passes. I guess we'll see if this is converted into points eventually or if the naysayers are correct.

 

[HotPie]

re read your post, it's pretty blatant.

you might also want to read my posts as well. differing opinions is what a forum is about, so to is having opinions open to scrutiny. a bad take is a bad take, wether i happen to agree with it or not is a completely different question. Someone offering up a take wihtout any tangible evidence or logic consistency is, more often than not, some for of delusion/bias/cognitive dissonance et.

superior arguments are well grounded ones, some of us post here in the hopes of improving and strengthening our knowledge and context of the game. Being wrong is a given, and the best way forward. It's the childish attachment to being right that is more often than not at the root of the piss poor takes that unfortunately crowd certain threads... c'est la vie.

go back through the thread... the constant theme is there are a certain number of posters who offer nothing but emotion as explanation for why JKO sucks... and no amount of evidence, ample as it is, that contradicts the narrative behind their take gets taken into consideration. That, imo, is the epitome of delusion... have a take, don't suck... and certainly don't cry about it when it gets scrutinized.

I'm not contradicting myself by wondering why anyone who disagrees with you is deluded while at the same time offering a context where people might be deluded.

There have been plenty of negative "takes" about KK's play that are supported by more than just "emotions". But this is once more a common strawman tactic you use with anyone who disagrees with you, distorting their position as some kind of argument based purely on emotional appeal.

I think it's perfectly legitimate to be disappointed with KK's lack of progression in terms of offensive production; he's pacing for a worse year than his rookie season in terms of offense. Where I disagree is when people extrapolate that into some kind of definitive claim about what kind of player KK will be in the future.

The problem is that this thread is turning into anyone that says something critical or negative about KK is "wrong" and "deluded".

 

[Habs Icing]

No, its a rhetorical question.

You are being ridiculous if you are calling Kks game just slightly better than Romanov who made two mistakes that directly lead to breakaways, lmao.

On the Leafs' 2nd goal KK was almost in Allen's crease, doing what? Nobody knows. That placed him too far to get to the point when the puck reached the d-man. Also, he showed all the hustle of a sloth trying to get to the point.

In the first period, he was supposed to cover Kerfoot, couldn't keep up with him and Kerfoot got in alone on Allen. Luckily, Jake pulled off a nice save.

You want more examples of KK's inept play? If I think about it I may have to revise my assessment and say he played as badly as Romanov.

There were freaking good reasons why DD benched him.