Jari Kurri vs Leon Draisaitl
- Thread starter Felidae
- Start date
Usually ppl here say Kurri wouldnt be anything without Gretzky. After Gretzky was traded to LA, Kurri still kept going:
- NHL playoffs best +/- all-time
- NHL playoffs best scorer 4 times
- 5x Stanley Cup
- Lady Byng trophy
- Maurice Richard trophy
- NHL playoffs best +/- all-time
- NHL playoffs best scorer 4 times
- 5x Stanley Cup
- Lady Byng trophy
- Maurice Richard trophy
| 1988-89 |
| NHL | 76 | 44 | 58 | 102 | 69 | 19 | | | Playoffs | 7 | 3 | 5 | 8 | 6 | -2 |
| WC | 7 | 5 | 4 | 9 | 4 | 8 | | | ||||||||
| 1989-90 |
| NHL | 78 | 33 | 60 | 93 | 48 | 18 | | | Playoffs | 22 | 10 | 15 | 25 | 18 | 13 |
Felidae
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2016
- 10,610
- 12,616
103 points and 44 goals is a significant drop from 130+ points and 60 - 70 goals.Usually ppl here say Kurri wouldnt be anything without Gretzky. After Gretzky was traded to LA, Kurri still kept going:
1988-89 NHL 76 44 58 102 69 19 | Playoffs 7 3 5 8 6 -2 WC 7 5 4 9 4 8 | 1989-90 NHL 78 33 60 93 48 18 | Playoffs 22 10 15 25 18 13
It could be a natural decline. Kurri was 24-25 during his 2 best seasons, but he was only 28 when he had his last and only top 10 point finish without Gretzky.
Ultimately, we'll never know just how much Kurri benefited from Gretzky. But there will always be an asterisk behind Kurri's most productive years, fair or not.
Of course, Draisaitl hasn't proved he can maintain his current goalscoring and production rate over these last few years without McDavid over the course of a full season. But the difference between McDavid and Gretzky is obvious, and Draisatl actually outproduced McDavid at one point.
he's been pretty close to McDavid in the Art Ross race most years, and has regularly outscored him.
It will be interesting to see the results for sure.
Its a known fact that Gretzky is the best player ever to play the game, so naturally there was a drop after Gretzky went to LA. I`d also argue that without McDavid Draisaitls points would also significally drop. I have the two players on par as of now. Draisaitl could for sure be better in the long run but we`ll have to see.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
Besides his amazing reg. season stats, Kurri won 5 Stanley Cups, which counts for everything. Kurri wins.
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
- Apr 6, 2016
- 8,567
- 8,229
Drai has been a top 5 player for the last 2-3 years. Was Kurri ever a top 5 player? Even after excluding Gretzky and Lemieux, no he wasn't. Drai by a mile.
Holymakinaw
Registered User
LOL. Kurri is widely accepted in every list out there for "100 greatest NHL players of all time". Draisaitl.........nowhere close to that yet.
Kurri should win by MANY miles.
Conspiracy Theorist
Registered User
- Jan 30, 2016
- 5,695
- 1,926
Kurri made it 5th in the Selke vote while leading the league in goals, I don't think anyone else in league history has finished higher than 10th.
Felidae
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2016
- 10,610
- 12,616
Fedorov was 2nd in goals when he won the Hart, Pearson and Selke.
Kurri and Draisaitl probably both have benefited from their better teammates, but I think Draisaitl’s production advantage relative to the league is too much to ignore, especially with them separated most of this year, even considering Kurri’s defense. Kurri wasn’t really in top 5 player discussions like Draisaitl has been. I’d give Draisaitl the peak edge.
I still think Kurri has an edge for Edmonton career though. Just more seasons at a high level and the incredible playoff career. Draisaitl probably passes him by the end of his deal though, and will almost certainly pass him if he re-signs
I still think Kurri has an edge for Edmonton career though. Just more seasons at a high level and the incredible playoff career. Draisaitl probably passes him by the end of his deal though, and will almost certainly pass him if he re-signs
Tobias Kahun
Registered User
- Oct 3, 2017
- 43,017
- 52,865
Dieseloil
Registered User
- Jul 31, 2016
- 926
- 879
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
- Apr 6, 2016
- 8,567
- 8,229
Felidae
Registered User
- Sep 30, 2016
- 10,610
- 12,616
You could make an argument from 1984-1986. Both years in which he led the league in GPG, was 2nd and 4th in points and PPG, and was almost a selke finalist. Kurri was simply never going to get Hart recognition during the prime years of Gretzky and Coffey. Both of whom were putting up unprecedented offensive numbers in their respective roles.
As an Oiler fan and huge fan of both Kurri and Draisaitl, I really struggled with this poll… and, yes, I’m old enough to have seen both play.
I went Draisaitl’s peak and prime but I’m not sure I have that right. Could be recency bias.
I went Draisaitl’s peak and prime but I’m not sure I have that right. Could be recency bias.
Yes - simply over shadowed.
KoozNetsOff 92
Hala Madrid
- Apr 6, 2016
- 8,567
- 8,229
Goes both ways though. He wasn't going to get hart recognition because of Gretzky/Coffey but he ranked where he did in goals, GPG, pts and PPG mainly because of them too.
The Panther
Registered User
Yes, absolutely.
-- In 1984-85 and 1985-86, Kurri was NHL #1 in goals-per-game (over Gretzky, Lemieux, Bossy).
-- From 1983-84 to 1986-87, Kurri was NHL #2 in points-per-game (over Mario Lemieux).
-- In 1984-85, Kurri in total scored 90 goals in 91 games and went +101.
-- When Edmonton won its first four Cups, Kurri was #1 in playoff goals every year. (When they won the fifth Cup, he had 3 goals and 2 assist in game two of the Finals.)
-- After Kurri played his last game for the Oilers in May 1990, he left the team as the #1 NHL playoff goal-scorer of all time.
-- While all this was going on, Kurri was a Selke finalist (#2 and #3) in 1983 and 1984. He was then top-5 Selke in 1985 and 1986.
There should be no doubt that Kurri was a top-5 player from 1983-84 through 1986-87.
The Panther
Registered User
I don't think you can compare players when one guy is long retired and one is currently in his prime.
But just looking at their peaks/primes so far, Kurri and Draisaitl are probably pretty close. Drai I guess has the edge in that he won the Hart / Art Ross, which Kurri was never in the running for. But Kurri proved himself again and again in pressure situations in the playoffs, while Draisaitl hasn't really had the chance to do much beyond the second round (that said, he's been amazing in the playoffs, in fact scoring more points in a 5-game series than any player in history!).
If Draisaitl ages well and has a long career, he'll almost certainly pass Kurri at some point. Kurri was soft and flabby when he came back from Italy in 1991 and he didn't age very well.
But just looking at their peaks/primes so far, Kurri and Draisaitl are probably pretty close. Drai I guess has the edge in that he won the Hart / Art Ross, which Kurri was never in the running for. But Kurri proved himself again and again in pressure situations in the playoffs, while Draisaitl hasn't really had the chance to do much beyond the second round (that said, he's been amazing in the playoffs, in fact scoring more points in a 5-game series than any player in history!).
If Draisaitl ages well and has a long career, he'll almost certainly pass Kurri at some point. Kurri was soft and flabby when he came back from Italy in 1991 and he didn't age very well.
Those lists account for entire careers not just partial ones and it won't be very long before Draisaital becomes a top 100 player.
The question for me is who would I take in their peak and prime and to that question the answer is Leon and I don't even have to think about it really.
No doubt?
This sounds a bit revisionist and maybe just by looking at production (the Oilers effect) but his best hart finish is 14th and no one really thought he was ever a top 5 player in the league, at any point, did they?
BlueBaron
Registered User
Which teams were more defensively aware?
I really think two way play can make up for a fair amount of points. I lean a little toward Kurri because I have to think Dra gets a lot more ice time and obviously is much less responsible defensively.
We're the old Oilers as run and gun as you would imagine they could be or did they take d seriously? It's so hard to compare eras.
I really think two way play can make up for a fair amount of points. I lean a little toward Kurri because I have to think Dra gets a lot more ice time and obviously is much less responsible defensively.
We're the old Oilers as run and gun as you would imagine they could be or did they take d seriously? It's so hard to compare eras.
The Panther
Registered User
Well, this is my opinion. Kurri was a 1st-team All Star in 1985 and 1987, and should have been in 1986 (for some reason, Bossy got it back that season even though Kurri led the NHL in goals and had the better year).
When you're 1st-team All Star at a deep position for a few years, lead the League in goals per game, set records in the playoffs while winning Cups, and are a Selke candidate, you're top-5, I think.
Fourier
Registered User
You can't go by Hart votes alone. He played on a team with Gretzky, Messier and Coffey that many of the people voting for the award probably saw play only in the playoffs. It was a different time. There was no mechanism to watch any NHL game you wanted. Plus of all the Oiler great players Kurri and Anderson were the two given the least credit for their own accomplishments. As an Oiler season ticket holder during those times, I don't think @The Panther is that far off in his assessment. That said I still picked Leon.
Ad
Upcoming events
-
-
-
Game 2 Indiana Pacers @ Boston Celtics - Boston leads series 1-0Wagers: 1Staked: $1,000.00Event closes- Updated:
-
-
