Player Discussion Jake "Big Tuna" Virtanen | XVII Nikolaj Who...?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,971
3,714
Vancouver, BC
My prediction of Virtanen miraculously clicking with the twins despite being a complete mismatch in terms of their offensive game is starting to look good. I don't see anyone else on the team saving the twins.

To be fair about the title, though, it doesn't make any sense because Ehlers is still several times more dominant at the moment.
 
  • Like
Reactions: vancityluongo

Addison Rae

Registered User
Jun 2, 2009
58,532
10,753
Vancouver
nah, hes a #6 overall pick who we picked over ehlers and nylander...he has to show a hell of a lot more to make us not regret the pick later down the road...as things are looking up now...
The Ehlers/Nylander ship has sailed far, far away. We shouldn't use them as comparisons for Virtanen. He looked like a lost prospect last year, and this year looks like a different player. If we can salvage a middle 6, Chris Kreider type player I'd consider it a massive win relative to last season.

Don't mistake this as me letting Benning off the hook for the pick, that's not what I'm doing at all.
 

PG Canuck

Registered User
Mar 29, 2010
63,029
24,292
nah, hes a #6 overall pick who we picked over ehlers and nylander...he has to show a hell of a lot more to make us not regret the pick later down the road...as things are looking up now...
I mean il always hate the pick, but I'd be happy with a middle six player over an AHLer.
 

Canucks1096

Registered User
Feb 13, 2016
5,608
1,667
I wanted Ehlers since day 1. Benning should of been searching replacements for the Sedins at the draft.

Virtanen in my opinion his upside is a good 3rd line 30 point player.and nothing more
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,730
5,962
My prediction of Virtanen miraculously clicking with the twins despite being a complete mismatch in terms of their offensive game is starting to look good. I don't see anyone else on the team saving the twins.

Why is it a mismatch. There were coaches who felt Hansen was a good fit alongside the Sedins due to his speed. I have said this before, people seem to have this firm idea of who would work well with the Sedins when the only they seem to favour is a right-handed shot.

The Sedins never needed a winger who can win them the puck on the boards. They never needed a playmaker. Virtanen is actually an underrated passer. He can get tunnel vision so people assume that he can't pass. The Sedins mostly needed a winger who can find open space and finish off opportunities that they create. Beyond that, the ability to be sprung on breakaways is a bonus.
 

ModernUser

Phil-osophist
Feb 25, 2015
283
34
Wow. All this talk about him turning into a middle 6 FWD. He was a 6th overall selection.
I dont see any other teams drafting middle 6 hopefuls with that spot in the draft. Sad.
 

CanaFan

Registered User
Feb 19, 2010
19,887
5,849
BC
Or 2 picks before Jake...
Or 4 picks before Jake...

When all is said and done.. Jake will still be close original draft value. 20-20 to 30-30 type.

There’s a big difference between a 20-20 player and a 30-30 player. The former would be a marginally acceptable pick though the superior production of the forwards picked after him would still leave him with the “wrong pick” label.

A 30-30 player would be a stellar pick and one of the best in the entire draft.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LickTheEnvelope

Bankerguy

Registered User
Apr 28, 2013
3,828
1,973
Guys,

Obviously he hasnt developed at the rate or to the level that we want considering he went 6th overall.

HOWEVER, he's making progress, looks like an NHL player... can't we just be happy that he's moving in the right direction as opposed to a complete write-off ?
 
  • Like
Reactions: rune74

vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
Sponsor
Jul 8, 2006
18,672
6,348
Edmonton
Guys,

Obviously he hasnt developed at the rate or to the level that we want considering he went 6th overall.

HOWEVER, he's making progress, looks like an NHL player... can't we just be happy that he's moving in the right direction as opposed to a complete write-off ?

There's a big difference between being happy and gloating. Any "told you we just needed to wait" type comments are still woefully ignoring that we're far from this being a break-even pick, let alone a good one. And that's just relative to what a 6th overall should reasonably be... forget a comparison to those other guys...

Which if anything, is completely unfair to Jake. Generally speaking, just let the kid play based on being a written off prospect. He's been terrific so far for a guy with the AHL numbers he had last year. Why bring his draft status back in the fold? This isn't directed at you, but just in general.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tv9924

Captain Bowie

Registered User
Jan 18, 2012
27,139
4,414
I know I have said this many, many, many times over.

The 2014 draft is over and done with. We cannot go back in time. It is decided, Ehlers and Nylander would have been better picks. We all agree to this, can we move on?

We longer need to bring up their names when discussing Jake's play. It is unnecessary and no longer relevant. Can't we simply analyze Jake's play as he continues to develop, or not develop, into a quality NHL player. All that matters is what he is doing now, and what we think he can do in the future. The only time Ehlerslander need be mentioned is "2014 redraft" type discussion. How they do has no impact on Jake does.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tv9924

Peen

Rejoicing in a Benning-free world
Oct 6, 2013
30,121
25,652
Well, it's been clear since the draft that Virtanen's ceiling was Chris Kreider.

Over the past two years it seemed as if he was going to cap out as a slightly faster Raffi Torres...

But his start this season is encouraging. He doesn't make as many infuriating plays as he used to, but he still lacks that next level processing ability that will always limit his upside. I like his spot with the twins for sure. It will guarantee he plays around 10 minutes a night at the minimum.
 

rune74

Registered User
Oct 10, 2008
9,228
552
There's a big difference between being happy and gloating. Any "told you we just needed to wait" type comments are still woefully ignoring that we're far from this being a break-even pick, let alone a good one. And that's just relative to what a 6th overall should reasonably be... forget a comparison to those other guys...

Which if anything, is completely unfair to Jake. Generally speaking, just let the kid play based on being a written off prospect. He's been terrific so far for a guy with the AHL numbers he had last year. Why bring his draft status back in the fold? This isn't directed at you, but just in general.

Who's gloating though?

There are a lot who totally wrote this player off due to last year(which is valid to a point), I think he is doing fantastic considering last year which I also think had a lot to do with what Willie did and shoulder surgery/injury at the beginning of last year in the preseason. I would love to see him fly in and drive the net taking the puck with him.

Some of his passes have been great this year and he is using people that play with him, his IQ deficit has been exaggerated a bit here.
Not related to what you said, but someone said don't do 9 shots try for the high percentage shots and it got me thinking of the old adage shoot the puck at the net and something good is bound to happen.
 

vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
Sponsor
Jul 8, 2006
18,672
6,348
Edmonton
Who's gloating though?

There are a lot who totally wrote this player off due to last year(which is valid to a point), I think he is doing fantastic considering last year which I also think had a lot to do with what Willie did and shoulder surgery/injury at the beginning of last year in the preseason. I would love to see him fly in and drive the net taking the puck with him.

Some of his passes have been great this year and he is using people that play with him, his IQ deficit has been exaggerated a bit here.
Not related to what you said, but someone said don't do 9 shots try for the high percentage shots and it got me thinking of the old adage shoot the puck at the net and something good is bound to happen.

Take a peek at other online Canucks communities and you'll see gloating for sure. It would happen here too if posters knew they wouldn't be swarmed by Ehlers/Nylander mentions immediately.

Biggest change I'm noticing is that he genuinely seems to know what is expected of him on the ice this year. He said as much when he was first sent down to Utica - Green gave him tangible instructions, whereas it was a free for all with Willie. I don't think his IQ was understated or has improved. He's just a player who needs a structured system, and seems to be getting that with Green.

I actually don't want to see him flying in with the puck either and trying the Horvat/Kesler drag moves for that very reason. Think he'd be better served sticking within the bounds of "skate hard, make hits when they come up, stay in position, shoot the puck" rather than giving him the individual freedom to make solo rushes.
 

MS

1%er
Mar 18, 2002
53,710
84,676
Vancouver, BC
Right now his feet are writing cheques that his brain can't cash, but his overall play has been a net positive and a revelation considering how atrocious he looked last season.

The coaching/video staff really, really need to be working with him on developing a power move and taking the puck to the middle of the ice for high-percentage shots. Right now, he's consistently getting a step on opposing defenders but as soon as a shot becomes a vague option he's just prematurely winging these low-percentage no-hopers at the net rather than using his size/speed/strength to get inside on those defenders.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Peen

DL44

Status quo
Sep 26, 2006
17,904
3,827
Location: Location:
If you are going to play the Sedins 12 ish mins/ night.... and break Virtanen in slowly at low mins... might as well put em together and see what happens...

Increased stability for the rest of the lines! We'll see how it pays off now. Keep skating Virtanen...
 

DownGoesMcDavid

Registered User
Apr 17, 2017
5,281
4,064
Would like to see him take the puck to the net more and create havoc that way insteaf of firing shots from the perimeter off the rush.

However you can definitely see that hr is progressing well. He isny a liability on the defensive end as well.

Watching him you can see all the potential....skating , anf power. Hes so thick. If he puts it all together watch out. He can be a game changer especially in the playoffs and in a 7 game series where he can ware down a dman
 

Shareefruck

Registered User
Apr 2, 2005
28,971
3,714
Vancouver, BC
Why is it a mismatch. There were coaches who felt Hansen was a good fit alongside the Sedins due to his speed. I have said this before, people seem to have this firm idea of who would work well with the Sedins when the only they seem to favour is a right-handed shot.

The Sedins never needed a winger who can win them the puck on the boards. They never needed a playmaker. Virtanen is actually an underrated passer. He can get tunnel vision so people assume that he can't pass. The Sedins mostly needed a winger who can find open space and finish off opportunities that they create. Beyond that, the ability to be sprung on breakaways is a bonus.
When it comes to being annoyed by misconceptions about what the Sedins need to play with, you're preaching to the choir.

I agree that pure playmaking ability isn't that important, I think the right-handed shot preference is exaggerated as well, actually (except for that one play they have on the powerplay that everyone has already caught onto). They've had every bit as much success with left handed shots, if not more.

I've always thought Hansen was a great fit with the Sedins. I don't see him as being an identical player to Virtanen in terms of compatible/incompatible attributes with them, though.

The only attribute that the Sedins have traditionally required in a linemate (before they became so slow that they required someone to do all the dirty work for them) is someone with strong hockey IQ/instincts/decision-making who doesn't require the puck on their stick to be effective, has a knack for finding open space, and has the ability to get a quick shot off of a pass. Those are the guys they develop chemistry with. Hansen fits that criteria. He's been a finding-open-space-in-the-slot, one-timer-trigger-man-shooter type ever since that first year where he developed chemistry with Burrows and Kesler.

As good as Virtanen is playing right now, he generally isn't that type of player. He's generally a puck-carrier who relies on his physicality, ability to create space and shoot off rushes and individual efforts. As you said, he has a bit of tunnel-vision and his decision-making without the puck can be suspect. He's getting better at it, but it clearly doesn't come naturally to him to look for open space the way that a guy like Boeser does. His weaknesses are generally the only thing that the Sedins have traditionally needed in a winger in order to develop chemistry in the offensive zone, and it's a similar reason why Bernier/Booth were so awful with them despite being strong along the boards, physical players with good shots (which people incorrectly identified as being a need for the Sedins).

But, as I said, I predicted that it would still be the only combination that worked on our roster, despite not being ideal for these reasons. Because the Sedins have gotten so slow and weak that the importance of having a winger who can be all over the ice doing all the little things, forecheck/backcheck, make up for their lack of physical tools, and retrieve the puck (like a Burrows/Hansen type) has now begun to far outweigh the importance of offensive-zone chemistry. And Virtanen is more naturally effective at that than anybody else on the team.
 
Last edited:

PG Canuck

Registered User
Mar 29, 2010
63,029
24,292
Wow. All this talk about him turning into a middle 6 FWD. He was a 6th overall selection.
I dont see any other teams drafting middle 6 hopefuls with that spot in the draft. Sad.

It's basically just hoping for something, instead of nothing. Not many around here are happy with the pick, for good reasons.
 

F A N

Registered User
Aug 12, 2005
18,730
5,962
Well, it's been clear since the draft that Virtanen's ceiling was Chris Kreider.

Kreider's ceiling is considered a lot higher than what he has shown. At his best, he's an offensive force that you wouldn't have too many wingers you want instead of him.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad