Jagr vs Forsberg
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Which was my argument from the very beginning of this thread until we got side tracked and started talking about influence in teams cup victory's. It isn't my fault that you failed to read the entire thread and thought my argument was based solely on impact on their teams cup runs.kovy1335 said:
Forsberg has a higher PPG than Jagr both in playoffs and regular season...
while we're at it...Forsberg is the only player who won the playoff scoring twice despite not making it to stanley cup finals.
Plus, wouldn't you want Forsberg over Jagr's ego attitude?
while we're at it...Forsberg is the only player who won the playoff scoring twice despite not making it to stanley cup finals.
Plus, wouldn't you want Forsberg over Jagr's ego attitude?
SectionX said:
On the flip side:
It should be noted that Forsberg's PPG lead in the regular season is 0.01 and in the playoffs it's 0.1.
Also note that Jagr has 5 scoring titles. To put that in perspective, only Gordie Howe, Wayne Greztky, and Mario Lemieux have more.
Plus, wouldn't you rather have Jagr over an injured Forsberg?
Jordoe28
Registered User
tom_servo said:
At the time Tugnutt was considered one of the best goaltenders in the league. He had an excellent playoff run with Pittsburgh and there exit wasn't his fault, he was brilliant. So good, that he signed a 10 million dollar contract the following summer.
Goldark said:
Noted.
I t should be noted that the stats show he is better in the regular season, and is able to raise his game and widen the gap in the playoffs. It is quite the tribute that he can outscroe such a great offensive player in Jagr, and still play so well defensively.(unlike Jagr)
Goldark said:
Yesr, but I would take a healthy or even semi healthy Forsberg over Jagr. Jagr is of course going to play more, because Forberg is so physical, drives to the net willing to get clobbered and hits very hard. Earlier this year he knocked Eric Cairns flying about 8-10ft, he has had tons of big hits this year.
SectionX said:
I really think age needs to be taken into consideration for this.
Forsberg made his NHL debut at age 21.
Jagr was in his 4th season by that age. I don't want to make a whole lot of excuses, but I think it's fair to say that it was a huge adjustment for him in his early years, coming from that part of the world as an 18 year old who spoke no English.
His PPG compared to Forsberg suffers because of this, especially his rookie season.
Jagr's total PPG for his career is 1.28 in the season, and 1.05 in the playoffs.
If you take out his rookie year, his regular season PPG is 1.32, and 1.15 in the playoffs.
If you take his stats from the age of 21 (the age Forsberg came over), he has a 1.37 PPG in the regular season, and 1.21 in the playoffs.
Forsberg's career PPG is 1.3 in the season, and 1.15 in the playoffs.
I hate to drag so many stats into this argument, but I don't think it's much of a stretch to assume that Jagr's PPG would be much higher had he joined the league as a 21 year old with 4 years of pro hockey under his belt.
revolverjgw
Registered User
Good points but I think those stats could still use some crunching and adjusting and qualifying, the handicap against Jagr isn't as bad as it seems... Jagr might have played younger, but he played those years in a signifigantly higher scoring NHL. 7 goals was the norm when he came in. Forsberg debuted right when scoring plummeted to less than 6 goals a game. As we've seen this year, a goal a game makes a BIG difference, it's a helluva lot easier for scorers to rack up points.
I agree that overall, Jagr playing early hurts his numbers, but not as bad as it seems. Forsberg never had the luxury of playing in a wide open NHL (until now, of course!), and for four full seasons.
I agree that overall, Jagr playing early hurts his numbers, but not as bad as it seems. Forsberg never had the luxury of playing in a wide open NHL (until now, of course!), and for four full seasons.
revolverjgw said:
Very true,
We need a professional statistician here.
Although, as a bit of a counter argument, Jagr's margin of victory for his scoring titles should also benefit him in regards to average league scoring
This is getting very confusing.
Jordoe28
Registered User
kovy1335 said:
Umm, while the playoff run did show that he can perform in the playoffs as well as the season, Tugnutt was considered one of the best after 98/99 when he had the lowest GAA in NHL history, and the highest SVP% of all goalies that year.
arrbez said:
uhmmmmm..... I think that Jagr played those first four years on a powerplay that included Lemieux, Francis, Zubov, and Coffey. At the time, those guys would have been on the PP in an All Star game if there was such a thing as a penalty called in the all star game.
These guys are very close.....I believe Jagr has had the better career stats wise because he doesn't play the game the way that Forsberg does, by that I mean he has never had any significant injuries.....but I believe that Forsberg is/was the better player of the two.
BackToTheBrierePatch
Nope not today.
Corto said:
Forsberg could lead the current Ranger team. Jagr isnt even the Rangers MVP right now.
I have and allways will take Forsberg over Jagr any day of the week, case in point Chris Therien used to be able to shutdown Jagr when he was with the Pens. peter Forsberg would have destroyed Therien if the Flyers decided to put Therien one one one with him. Jagr cannot and never will be able to handle the constant physical play. you hit Jagr enough and he can be shutdown. Forsberg not only accepts the physical play he can dish it out as well.
I do not want to discredit Jagr thou. he has shown me more this year with his effort in a long time.
But still for my money I would take a healthy Peter Forsberg over a healthy Jaromir Jagr
kovy1335
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- Sep 21, 2005
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Jordoe28 said:
...find me someone who actually believed he was a premier goalie because of that season. JS. Aubin had one good season too.
I find it hard to believe he was considered one of the best when these other goalies were in theire prime: Belfour, Roy, Hasek, Cujo, Brodeur. If he's not in the top 5 (or maybe even the top 10) out of 30 teams, can you really say he's one of the best?
Jordoe28
Registered User
He was up for the Vezina that year. Although he did not win he finished second in voting, so some people must of thought he was one of the elite goaltenders. And it wasn't just one season, he continually improved his numbers for the first 3 seasons with Ottawa, than continued with Pittsburgh and Columbus, there's a lot more than a 1 year wonder there.
When was the last time Jagr threw a heavy check. I'd love to see that. Please provide the link.
Forsberg is better in playoffs and Jagr gets soft.
Forsberg is better in playoffs and Jagr gets soft.
Interesting argument.ClarkeMustGoDotCom said:
I guess the Flyers never used Therien on Jagr then.
He has 78 points in 62 games against the Flyers in his career...
Forsberg has 13 points in 15 games against the Flyers.
Well, maybe it WAS a pointless argument after all.
Off topic.Evilo said:
See if you would make any smart comments in the past I would listen to you. But 5 month ago you were saying that Edzo is a great coach and Pittsburgh was a cup contender. Malone would score 40 goals and LeClair and Recchi would be killing Flyers.
Once agian it makes no difference how many points Jagr has in playoffs. He always played soft game in playoffs unlike Peter. Give me at least one link when Jagr threw a check and put a player on his shorts. It never happened. Never will. What about a regular season game? Jagr is soft not and he is not a leader in playoffs.
BackToTheBrierePatch
Nope not today.
Evilo said:
I was just using that as an example.
Jagr does not like the physical play at all. Forsberg thrives and loves the physcial play.
Kaizer
Registered User
Do you want to provide the link with Mario destroying anyone or Sakic or Yzerman ?RUS said:
Just interesting- Status
