It feels like a BUNCH of teams need an upgrade in net

[Malaka]

The goaltending position is dead as we once knew it. It's a mix between the contrived push for 'higher scoring' and the 'scientification' of the position. The best goaltenders that have ever stepped on the ice were playing 'jazz' while almost everyone today is reading off of sheet music - if that makes any sense. There is very little to no 'flow' or 'soul' to the position any more. It's all practiced and repeated movements/actions burned into them through schools and academies. Robotic almost and that's why it almost always feels uninspired and soulless.

There will never be another Hasek/Roy/Brodeur/Belfour. The 'system' won't allow it.

You say this and at the same time Ian Clark(literally wrote the book standardizing goaltending coaching with #scientification) is spitting in the leagues face coaching a third string goaltender into the WCF.

The problem isn’t the players unable to play jazz, it’s the f***in conductors pretending to be goalie whisperers who should be selling stamps at a post office.

 

[Tarmore]

Whenever I lurk on team boards other than my own I notice a common sentiment - fans want their GM to fix their goaltending issues

Is it just me, or does it feel like a BUNCH of teams want an upgrade in net? Is this unusual?

Of the playoff teams remaining this year, you could argue Carolina, Edmonton and Colorado are weak in net.

And I haven’t even mentioned everyone not playing right now.

What does this say about the state of goaltending in the league?

It means the same as always if you don't have a top 5ish goalie in the league you are probably not happy with your goaltending, as a contender.

Rebuilding teams are always trying to get better and often younger as well. You can have the opposite thing here. If your goalie is too good it can hurt your tank. Good news is contenders are in the hunt for better goaltending and will happily take your good goalie from you. Bad news is recent history is goalie return in trades is nothing like a position player would be & you'll still need a good tender in the future.

 

[nbwingsfan]

I think Boston gets an absolute haul for Ullmark because of this

 

[Drytoast]

I think Boston gets an absolute haul for Ullmark because of this

Oh you think they are gonna trade Ullmark and sign Swayman?

 

[Beukeboom Fan]

Andersen is a top-10 goalie year after year, and Kochetkov is one of the better backups in the league. Carolina can’t upgrade on that without going and getting a Vezina contender.

Agree with you in principle, but the first half of this year wasn't CAR rocking something like a team .880SP?


I think that a big part of it is that the "new school" style is incredibly hard on the body and more and more guys are getting hurt playing goal. It used to be incredibly rare to see a team use more than their "3rd goalie" due to injury. That's no longer the case.

 

[KevinRedkey]

As a result of all this, we've started to see more posts asking for defensively responsible defencemen.

 

[JianYang]

I think finding goalies that can maintain a high level of play consistently and also remain relatively healthy is becoming more and more rare.

 

[PoutineSp00nZ]

Butterfly was more effective with large pads. So effective that it became the dominant way to play the position. If not the most boring.

With equipment being shrunk and coaches figuring things out over the years its become less effective.

Hopefully we get another Hasek or someone soon to break the mold and change things up again.

 

[JianYang]

You say this and at the same time Ian Clark(literally wrote the book standardizing goaltending coaching with #scientification) is spitting in the leagues face coaching a third string goaltender into the WCF.

The problem isn’t the players unable to play jazz, it’s the f***in conductors pretending to be goalie whisperers who should be selling stamps at a post office.

He's hot right now, but when I talk about general volatility plaguing the position, the timeline is much larger than a few games.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

I think it's a mix of things


If you watch closely you'll see players have no idea what to do other than skate to an area. You'll see wingers covering the point. The d comes in and the winger is still guarding the point, then realizes he needs ro move up and goal.

There will be a 2 on 1 and the defensive team comes back and makes it a 3 on 3, but no one is looking for the trailing offensive player and goal.

Another 2 on 1 a dman turns sideways, making himself smaller and has no idea where the player on the back side is, so there's an easy pass across and goal.

The defensive awareness of players has dropped considerably. You see it here and people give praise to players who aren't thar good defensively. They're not terrible, but they're not someone I'd really trust.

 

[NYR94]

I think Boston gets an absolute haul for Ullmark because of this

exactly, they need to capitalize on having two starting goalies by trading one of them to a team desperate for one to help fill an area of need on the Bruins roster.

 

[MM425]

The goaltending position is dead as we once knew it. It's a mix between the contrived push for 'higher scoring' and the 'scientification' of the position. The best goaltenders that have ever stepped on the ice were playing 'jazz' while almost everyone today is reading off of sheet music - if that makes any sense. There is very little to no 'flow' or 'soul' to the position any more. It's all practiced and repeated movements/actions burned into them through schools and academies. Robotic almost and that's why it almost always feels uninspired and soulless.

There will never be another Hasek/Roy/Brodeur/Belfour. The 'system' won't allow it.

This is a good take but I’m optimistic we will see the pendulum swing back for a few reasons.

1. Because the position is over-coached and there are few inspiring goalies left in the NHL, no kids want to play it anymore (in Canada at least). This has to change or there will be no more goalies left to coach. Room for “Jazz” play as you put it will have to come back out of necessity.

2. At the pro level, there will be a point where having a goalie that can “play jazz” is actually a strategic advantage. I think coaches will eventually become more open to “jazz goalies” again as the success of robot goalies declines (see Stuart Skinner as exhibit A).

It will take a while though. This is a down time for the goaltending position, no question about it.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

exactly, they need to capitalize on having two starting goalies by trading one of them to a team desperate for one to help fill an area of need on the Bruins roster.

GM's don't make big offers for goaltenders. Probably because goaltenders go from good to trash in a heartbeat. And Ullmark is an average to mediocre goaltender. If he was any good Bruins get by the first round last season. Saros is one of the few goaltenders worth a big haul.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

Whenever I lurk on team boards other than my own I notice a common sentiment - fans want their GM to fix their goaltending issues

Is it just me, or does it feel like a BUNCH of teams want an upgrade in net? Is this unusual?

Of the playoff teams remaining this year, you could argue Carolina, Edmonton and Colorado are weak in net.

And I haven’t even mentioned everyone not playing right now.

What does this say about the state of goaltending in the league?

I think scoring skills and strategies have just advanced a bit beyond what goalies can consistently stop. Tough to never let in weak ones, move across laterally, cover every dime-sized hole a sniper might shoot through.. feels like it’s just tougher physically and mentally nowadays, so we’ve gone from like 25 serviceable starters to somethin like 15, and those guys seem a bit streakier and more injury-prone than past generations. Just a tougher position nowadays, and so ya, good goalies are in high demand. It does seem to be a growing trend, but it also feels like there’s less certainty about who might actually be good.

It’ll be interesting to see if teams start drafting more goalies, just hoping something hits somewhere. Glad Sabres have two solid prospects, the free agent market is gonna be pricey.

 

[JianYang]

I think scoring skills and strategies have just advanced a bit beyond what goalies can consistently stop. Tough to never let in weak ones, move across laterally, cover every dime-sized hole a sniper might shoot through.. feels like it’s just tougher physically and mentally nowadays, so we’ve gone from like 25 serviceable starters to somethin like 15, and those guys seem a bit streakier and more injury-prone than past generations. Just a tougher position nowadays, and so ya, good goalies are in high demand. It does seem to be a growing trend, but it also feels like there’s less certainty about who might actually be good.

It’ll be interesting to see if teams start drafting more goalies, just hoping something hits somewhere. Glad Sabres have two solid prospects, the free agent market is gonna be pricey.

I don't know how if it's advanced strategies or just taking resources away from goalies and defenders.

Equipment reduction on goalies is a resource taken away. The league cracking down on obstruction is a resource taken from the checkers. Finally, an underappreciated resource taken away from the checkers is the ability to consistently hack and hook on the gloves of the puck carrier. I think Crosby whacking methot's fingertip off finally made the nhl look at themselves in the mirror and realize that maybe this form of checking shouldn't be tolerated.

 

[Rabid Ranger]

Scoring is up so naturally defensive and goaltending metrics are going to suffer. It's also much harder to defend than in the past. You are more and more limited with how many liberties you can take in front of the net.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

I don't know how if it's advanced strategies or just taking resources away from goalies and defenders.

Equipment reduction on goalies is a resource taken away. The league cracking down on obstruction is a resource taken from the checkers. Finally, an underappreciated resource taken away from the checkers is the ability to consistently hack and hook on the gloves of the puck carrier. I think Crosby whacking methot's fingertip off finally made the nhl look at themselves in the mirror and realize that maybe this form of checking probably shouldn't be tolerated.

And you can't clear a player from in front of the net because there is no way to know if an idiot ref is going to call an interference penalty.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Suddenly Florida doesn't seem too dumb spending big $ on a goaltender.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

I don't know how if it's advanced strategies or just taking resources away from goalies and defenders.

Equipment reduction on goalies is a resource taken away. The league cracking down on obstruction is a resource taken from the checkers. Finally, an underappreciated resource taken away from the checkers is the ability to consistently hack and hook on the gloves of the puck carrier. I think Crosby whacking methot's fingertip off finally made the nhl look at themselves in the mirror and realize that maybe this form of checking shouldn't be tolerated.

Right, but we’ve still seemingly gone from 15-25 starters you can really depend on to.. less than that. They’re also playing fewer games, which isn’t really explained by any of the above. Meanwhile I’d argue guys still get away with plenty of rough stuff, depending on the refs and weather, with interference and crosschecks taking the place of hooks and holds. The big difference is a whole generation growing up with better stick technology, where a wrister from the wing is much more dangerous than it’s been since Roy introduced the butterfly. Feels like that was a big step forward for goalies, trap was great for defense, but now offensive skills, tools, and strategies have seen the greater growth. What you mention might explain the overall increase in scoring, but the dearth of good goalies seems to me to be a bit different.

 

[HolyGhost]

Whenever I lurk on team boards other than my own I notice a common sentiment - fans want their GM to fix their goaltending issues

Is it just me, or does it feel like a BUNCH of teams want an upgrade in net? Is this unusual?

Of the playoff teams remaining this year, you could argue Carolina, Edmonton and Colorado are weak in net.

And I haven’t even mentioned everyone not playing right now.

What does this say about the state of goaltending in the league?

That is an understatement

 

[HockeyVirus]

Andersen is a top-10 goalie year after year, and Kochetkov is one of the better backups in the league. Carolina can’t upgrade on that without going and getting a Vezina contender.

Until the playoffs. Same thing when he was with the Leafs, covered up for the Leafs terrible D all season long and then once playoff came he let in soft stinkers at the worst times over and over.

 

[SEALBound]

It's all relative. Teams DO need upgrades in net but the problem is, there aren't many available upgrades.

The overall skill level of goalies is not keeping pace with the players. I imagine there are socioeconomic reasons for this but also, players are just getting a lot better. The skill level and shooting ability is going way up. That said, we just don't see as many legit franchise goalies in the league as we did as little as 10 years ago.

I'm sure in the 80s and early 90s, a lot of teams felt this way too. But unless you can find that elite, franchise goalie like Shesty, Vasi, Helly, Bobs, or Swayman/Ullmark, what you need on any given night is goaltending that is "good enough". You're goalie can easily let up 3-4 if your forwards can pot 5. And if you drop a game by letting in 7 and it plummets your stats...who cares. As long as next game you let in fewer that your team scores, all is well.

It's an interesting time for goalies right now.

 

[LightningStrikes]

Scoring is up. Is it that goalies are worse or that skaters are (so much) better now?

 

[ManofSteel55]

Scoring is up. Is it that goalies are worse or that skaters are (so much) better now?

I don't believe that goalies are "worse" per se, aside from not having a Roy/Hasek/Brodeur/Lundqvist level goalie in the NHL at the moment. I do believe that there are more "average" goalies, and average goaltending gets exposed in high pressure situations and when opposing high powered offenses. It's why contenders should have 2 good goalies these days. The Oilers are experiencing this first hand. Skinner isn't awful, but isn't great either. Vancouver is having their way with him though, so in an ideal world, we have another goalie we can put in for at least a game or two to help get them through. Pickard, career backup, isn't really an ideal solution, nor is "prepping for a buyout" Jack Campbell or "never played in the NHL" Rodrigue. Vancouver is getting lucky that their young guy is holding them in games after their starter went down and backup soiled the sheets.

 

[Korpse]

I don’t think people appreciate how good shooters have become.