Is the lack of success by the Montreal Canadiens a factor in the lack of Quebecers in the NHL?

[Ezpz]

Those drafts coincide with the biggest decline in Quebecers (I believe, i don't have the numbers) so it might have something to do. It's a slow trend to get back to normal, it can't happen overnight.

Canada not having a middle class anymore is a bigger factor, the decline is all throughout the country. Canada is quickly passing the USA in income inequality and poverty.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Only rich kids with two parents play hockey growing up.

 

[Colezuki]

Montreal shouldn't be affected by a lack of Quebecers any more than any other team. It's their own fault for prioritizing French Canadians.

Did you read it, the question was is montreals lack of success causing less quebecers to play not is Montreals lack of success due to less Francophones on the team

 

[GAGLine]

Did you read it, the question was is montreals lack of success causing less quebecers to play not is Montreals lack of success due to less Francophones on the team

Oh, my bad. I read it wrong.

 

[BLNY]

Less Canadians in general, hockey is ridiculously expensive.

/thread

 

[Bedards Dad]

That's the lack of success from others Canadian teams been a factor in players from those provinces making the NHL? Why would Quebec be unique?

 

[mr figgles]

There were 76 NHL players that were born in Quebec in the 1983-84 NHL, there are 45 players that were born in Quebec in the 2023-24 NHL. Born in doesn't necessarily reflect where they grew up but I didn't take the time to poke and prod through every player's personal history. But that's 31 less players, at a time when the NHL expanded from 21 teams to 32 teams (+11).

The league was overwhelmingly Canadian then though. There was a boom of players born outside of Canada after that. A better comparison would be the share of French Canadians among Canadian players rather than players in general.

 

[Crosby2010]

I am getting the vibe that it is the cost of hockey above the house league level that is the cause of this, and to be honest, I agree. Canada in 2023 is not Canada in the 1990s economically. And I think Hockey Canada is guilty of jacking up the prices along the way as well. So this may not just be a Quebec thing, because in reality they would traditionally have colder and longer winters than Southern Ontario. I don't think it helps that the Habs haven't been an inspiring bunch for a long time either, but I will agree that hockey has turned into a rich man's game.

For example, what do Connor Bedard's parents do for a living? McDavid's? Even someone likely to be #1 in 2024 like Mack Celebrini? I don't know what they do, but to pay for hockey schools in the summer, power skating, etc. and all the travelling that someone at their skill level would be doing growing up then it isn't cheap. They aren't just working a blue collar job, let's just say.

It is a big change from Walter Gretzky who lived in a modest home and worked a normal job as a phone repairman for Bell until 1991 when his brain aneurysm forced him to retire. I don't doubt Wayne could have given him a chunk of money in the 1980s and let him retire if he wanted to. But either way, the greatest player who ever lived grew up in basically a bungalow if I am correct. If I recall a story from Wayne himself, his grandmother always got him skates (not sure if they were new) every year. So that's pretty modest living. I think that is the problem right there, with a shrinking middle class, and the idea that even someone in the middle class can't afford their child to be advanced in hockey in Canada, I think that is the biggest factor in enrollment. In a way, Hockey Canada is the worst enemy for Canadian kids.

 

[Craig Ludwig]

The Quebec PeeWee Tournament is first rate. The levels I was talking about were A and AA. I never went, I'm only repeating what I was told by others who went... their players were run repeatedly to box, period after period, game after game. Maybe it was just a matter of games being called differently than at home. But I heard the same thing from enough sources not to have any interest in going. And I also said, this could be a nothing burger.

Good point. One thing I do notice is that Contact in Quebec is a lot less tolerated, and more penalties are called for clean body checks, which is not good for Quebec development. When we go to U.S and even Ontario, it's a much more physical game that is tolerated by the referees, whereas when we come back to Quebec coaches tell players not to hit much because of all the penalties called even for clean hits.

 

[Mathieukferland]

For example, what do Connor Bedard's parents do for a living? McDavid's?

These are bad examples. If you’re someone of that talent level, the cost of hockey will be taken care for you. Gavin McKenna, Tyson Jost, or Ethan Bear are examples of this. The ones who are really hurt are players that aren’t the absolute best in their age group and can’t afford it, because others will not pay for them.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I am getting the vibe that it is the cost of hockey above the house league level that is the cause of this, and to be honest, I agree. Canada in 2023 is not Canada in the 1990s economically. And I think Hockey Canada is guilty of jacking up the prices along the way as well. So this may not just be a Quebec thing, because in reality they would traditionally have colder and longer winters than Southern Ontario. I don't think it helps that the Habs haven't been an inspiring bunch for a long time either, but I will agree that hockey has turned into a rich man's game.

For example, what do Connor Bedard's parents do for a living? McDavid's? Even someone likely to be #1 in 2024 like Mack Celebrini? I don't know what they do, but to pay for hockey schools in the summer, power skating, etc. and all the travelling that someone at their skill level would be doing growing up then it isn't cheap. They aren't just working a blue collar job, let's just say.

It is a big change from Walter Gretzky who lived in a modest home and worked a normal job as a phone repairman for Bell until 1991 when his brain aneurysm forced him to retire. I don't doubt Wayne could have given him a chunk of money in the 1980s and let him retire if he wanted to. But either way, the greatest player who ever lived grew up in basically a bungalow if I am correct. If I recall a story from Wayne himself, his grandmother always got him skates (not sure if they were new) every year. So that's pretty modest living. I think that is the problem right there, with a shrinking middle class, and the idea that even someone in the middle class can't afford their child to be advanced in hockey in Canada, I think that is the biggest factor in enrollment. In a way, Hockey Canada is the worst enemy for Canadian kids.

There's alot more European players who make it from hard situations than north americans now

 

[Czechboy]

above the house league

Even house league is pricey! And now they do more and more tournaments and weekends away to get that mini 'MD' experience.

This notion of used equipment, teach your kid to play and enjoy hockey is fading a bit.

The good news for Canada? Getting real good at soccer, vball, tennis and basketball. Some parents, the middle class and up ones, are avoiding hockey. The new to Canada crowd that comes with money (eg. from Korea, Brazil, China) avoid hockey and put their kids into other expensive sports like dance, soccer, basketball and vball.

 

[Czechboy]

There's alot more European players who make it from hard situations than north americans now

Pasta and Faksa come to mind.

I remember, growing up, Don Cherry talking about the good old boys coming up and all that.

Any idea how hard it is to get to the NHL from Pardubice?

 

[WarriorofTime]

The league was overwhelmingly Canadian then though. There was a boom of players born outside of Canada after that. A better comparison would be the share of French Canadians among Canadian players rather than players in general.

The French Canadian share has fallen just amongst Canadians but you’re correct the bulk of the difference is more Americans and less Canadians in general, which French Canadians will “feel” more because it’s not immediately apparent if a kid is from Michigan or Saskatchewan because they’re both going to be Anglican but you know right away he’s probably not from Quebec.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The French Canadian share has fallen just amongst Canadians but you’re correct the bulk of the difference is more Americans and less Canadians in general, which French Canadians will “feel” more because it’s not immediately apparent if a kid is from Michigan or Saskatchewan because they’re both going to be Anglican but you know right away he’s probably not from Quebec.

This is my first discussion about NHL Anglicans. It should not matter how many Anglicans in the NHL there are. I think there's still room for more Lutherans, but that's just a personal opinion.

Also I'm so sure the league is ready for The Quebecers.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Pasta and Faksa come to mind.

I remember, growing up, Don Cherry talking about the good old boys coming up and all that.

Any idea how hard it is to get to the NHL from Pardubice?

Hockey is only for rich kids in North America these days.

 

[Dingo]

ill echo most of the thinking here - Ive always felt that I have noticed way more father/son/uncle/brother repeats in hockey than other sports. A lot of the time, the 'next' one is just a fringe player. Genetics? Ya, sure, but that should also come through in other sports (probably basketball the most) Nepotism? ya, again its everywhere in life, though. Families who can afford to play/go to camps/own their own rink? I think so.

 

[Leafidelity]

Did the lack of success by Toronto Maple Leafs affect the amount of players from Ontario in NHL?

Without a doubt. Kids don't watch hockey, they watch basketball, soccer and baseball.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

This was discussed a little while ago in another thread about Canada and the Olympics I believe. I was inquiring why there is just a lack of French-Canadian players and superstars in the NHL like there used to be. There used to be a goaltending factory that came out of Quebec back in the 1990s, partly due to Patrick Roy's success and the butterfly style of play. But there were also forwards that were skilled that scattered throughout the NHL. I mentioned how I think the smaller percentage of Canadian players in the NHL is due to there being less French players than from before. The Western provinces produce players, Ontario does as well, and even the Maritime provinces to an extent. But Quebec has just dropped like a stone when it comes to the amount of talent they churn out. Case in point, look even at someone like Lafreniere who has never lived up to his 1st overall status in 2020. It is still early, and things can happen, but he is at 18 points in 32 games, and that is considered a jump in production for him. Jonathan Huberdeau dropping like an anvil when it comes to being a point producer. He had 85 assists in 2022, good for the best in the NHL, and he's been a ghost since then.

So we can all acknowledge there is a lack of French-Canadian success in the NHL. But why? I was part of a discussion that felt the lack of success the Canadiens have had in the last 30 years comes into play. The Habs won the Cup in 1993, but for the most part since then have not been a contender, and missed a ton of playoff hockey. The only time they made the final since 1993 was 2021 and the province didn't even let fans come into the building! Carey Price has been a star, but oft-injured and the Habs haven't had a 100 point man since Mats Naslund in 1986, and the last time they had a top 10 point producer was then too. It has been three decades of mediocrity and the thought is that this has taken a lot of interest away from young hockey fans in Quebec when there isn't the excitement of the Habs anymore.

How many people feel this theory is spot on? Does it have any validity to it? If not, what are your answers for this?

Nah, it’s a chicken-or-egg thing with a lot of variables. I’d say it used to be more a part of French-Canadian culture than it was elsewhere, but now dudes come from California and Arizona, there’s refined training and shit- the natural advantage Quebec had just from having a hockey interest/culture has disappeared. It’s not that their numbers have shrunk, necessarily, but that it has grown elsewhere in ways that even the playing field, so to speak.

As to chicken and egg, I mean that the lack of success in MTL leads to reduced hockey interest, leads to fewer players growing up wanting to play for MTL, the media doesn’t help and just perpetuates the revolving door cycle.. so on and so forth. It isn’t one way causation, its kinda an empire in decline, in a sense, and it’s tough to stop entropy from happening. So.. ya, MTL has problems because of the Roman Empire and physics. Duh.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Without a doubt. Kids don't watch hockey, they watch basketball, soccer and baseball.

That's too bad.

 

[Pure West]

1. Less Canadians in the league overall.
2. Quebec, and French Canadians in general, make up less of the Canadian population than they used to.

Probably the simplest explanation. I'm not sure I buy that it's cost. "Cost" affects the number of players making the NHL by player development being much more more professionalized now. You're less likely to make the NHL coming from a small town or rural area then you used to be . You don't make the NHL playing on a backyard rink, you get there with rep teams, good competition, top notch coaching, training facilities, etc. that are available in and around the major cities. Quebecers have the same access to these in greater Montreal/Quebec City. If anything, this hurts rural provinces like Saskatchewan more and why a place like British Columbia has gotten significantly better despite not having access to outdoor ice.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

1. Less Canadians in the league overall.
2. Quebec, and French Canadians in general, make up less of the Canadian population than they used to.

Probably the simplest explanation. I'm not sure I buy that it's cost. "Cost" affects the number of players making the NHL by player development being much more more professionalized now. You're less likely to make the NHL coming from a small town or rural area then you used to be . You don't make the NHL playing on a backyard rink, you get there with rep teams, good competition, top notch coaching, training facilities, etc. that are available in and around the major cities. Quebecers have the same access to these in greater Montreal/Quebec City. If anything, this hurts rural provinces like Saskatchewan more and why a place like British Columbia has gotten significantly better despite not having access to outdoor ice.

its funny because here in Quebec its the contrary, you have a better shot making it into hockey if you come from a rural or small city in quebec , almost no players come from the actual city of Montreal anymore and if they do its usually the West Island.

Meanwhile kids who play soccer and basketball do stem from the city since you don't need two parents with a car and above average income.

I suspect its the same with Toronto and not many players who actually grew up inside the actual city make it. I would have to check though

 

[Pure West]

its funny because here in Quebec its the contrary, you have a better shot making it into hockey if you come from a rural or small city in quebec , almost no players come from the actual city of Montreal anymore and if they do its usually the West Island.

Meanwhile kids who play soccer and basketball do stem from the city since you don't need two parents with a car and above average income.

I suspect its the same with Toronto and not many players who actually grew up inside the actual city make it. I would have to check though

I mean more the big city and its suburbs. Where you can access the competition in a reasonable drive. It still seems like most of the players are from in and around the bigger cities in Quebec too.

In Ontario most of the players are from the bigger cities/suburbs in southern Ontario. Oakville or Newmarket aren't rural, you're able to play on the top teams in the GTA from there.

 

[joestevens29]

The q plays hockey the way they think it should be. Hence lack of talent in nhl

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Hockey is expensive.

It's not just north Americans with some players from overseas sprinkled in.