Speculation: Is the biggest lesson here: Rookie President, Rookie GM, and Rookie Coach?

[DuklaNation]

Why hasn't Shanahan been fired yet? This guy actually wanted to extend Dubas after his failure but only dumped him when he asked for too much. Sad times.

 

[horner]

The Leafs have had experienced management groups too and they were even worse.

It simply comes down to getting things done and they didn't. I don't think it was a lack of experience that did them in rather than just not wanting to pivot when it was obvious the core isn't capable of delivering results under pressure.

And we still don't or won't

Did the Islanders crumble when JT left nope
They were better.

Teams get blown away by that star players
But in a cap world you can't
Once a player or 2 are eating up25 mil of your cap you need to go in another direction

Especially if you have won nothing and they are the wrong leaders.

It's the fear of the unknown

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Maybe if you have a short memory. Lou and Babs were also trash.

 

[Superstar]

Dubas may have learned on the job, but do you think he was ever going to fix the D? It was shoddy the day he started and may even be worse today.

He brought in Muzzin, but that wasn’t enough.

Dubas had tunnel vision...he could not imagine the Leafs could win any other way except to have 4 forwards taking up half the cap...so stupid...he could have moved Marner or Nylander to free up cap space and sign Alex Pietrangelo...and some fans worship him like he's some kind of genius GM, lol...there isn't a GM who has inherited more, but done less.

 

[LeafSteel]

Things didn't pan out.

and ..... it's about to get worse.

Shanahan didn't make a reasonable decision.

Dubas on a short 2 year deal was the move.

Shanahan needs to go, moreso than Dubas did.

In fairness to Shanahan, Dubas' sad ploy to get more money was next level STUPID. I feel Shanahan absolutely roasted Dubas by takin the behind the scenes to the media. He crushed Dubas. That being said, Dubas' taking his sad woes to the media during the end of year press conference was VERY DUMB. These 3 hockey clowns aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

Tampa's coach is a lawyer. Over time it's clear that he outperforms Dubas, Keefe and Shanahan by making smarter decisions.

God, I would throw money at Jon Cooper like no tomorrow to come and coach, with an eye to potential move to GM if that was his inclination.

Mike Gillis or George McPhee at GM and Jon Cooper at Head Coach? YES PLEASE!

Huge improvement over Dubas/Keefe without even having played a game yet.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Things didn't pan out.

and ..... it's about to get worse.

Shanahan didn't make a reasonable decision.

Dubas on a short 2 year deal was the move.

Shanahan needs to go, moreso than Dubas did.

In fairness to Shanahan, Dubas' sad ploy to get more money was next level STUPID. I feel Shanahan absolutely roasted Dubas by takin the behind the scenes to the media. He crushed Dubas. That being said, Dubas' taking his sad woes to the media during the end of year press conference was VERY DUMB. These 3 hockey clowns aren't the sharpest tools in the shed.

Tampa's coach is a lawyer. Over time it's clear that he outperforms Dubas, Keefe and Shanahan by making smarter decisions.

I'm tempted to say the whole reason provided for the firing is a plot.

They didn't want to blame it on poor job performance. It would have sunk both Shanahan and Dubas' career. So they fabricated this whole Dubas hemming and hawing over the job offer.

But that would mean giving these guys far more credit than they have shown they deserve.

 

[jkutswings]

God, I would throw money at Jon Cooper like no tomorrow to come and coach, with an eye to potential move to GM if that was his inclination.

Mike Gillis or George McPhee at GM and Jon Cooper at Head Coach? YES PLEASE!

Huge improvement over Dubas/Keefe without even having played a game yet.

1) Why on Earth would Cooper want to leave Tampa for such a pressure cooker? I'd sooner make $4M on the gulf than $10M where I'm roasted if my shoelaces are the wrong color.

2) Regardless of who is running the show, their top job should be overhauling the culture. Playoff success is having enough talent that's willing to run through a wall to win (and still needing a fair amount of luck). You could make all the right moves and still come up short, but that's where you start to turn things around.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Why on Earth would Cooper want to leave Tampa for such a pressure cooker?

Who knows ?

I wouldn’t.

The cap era has grown the game but at the expense of Leaf fans. The idea that Toronto can’t spend more to overcome all its problems is crippling.

A luxury tax makes a lot of sense in the nhl vs. a flat cap.

Canadian teams will need some advantage to keep the growing crop of young American players.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

Dubas had tunnel vision...he could not imagine the Leafs could win any other way except to have 4 forwards taking up half the cap...so stupid...he could have moved Marner or Nylander to free up cap space and sign Alex Pietrangelo...and some fans worship him like he's some kind of genius GM, lol...there isn't a GM who has inherited more, but done less.

Exactly.

 

[CaptainCrunch17]

I'm tempted to say the whole reason provided for the firing is a plot.

They didn't want to blame it on poor job performance. It would have sunk both Shanahan and Dubas' career. So they fabricated this whole Dubas hemming and hawing over the job offer.

But that would mean giving these guys far more credit than they have shown they deserve.

Have you stopped to consider that perhaps the owners of the team simply weren’t willing to improve the contract offer they approved for Dubas?

It sounds like they were reluctant to extend Dubas at all. So perhaps after his, “I don’t know if I want to continue to be the GM of the Leafs” press conference, coupled with the fact he came back asking for significantly more money and more power they simply said no.

 

[Donnie740]

1) Why on Earth would Cooper want to leave Tampa for such a pressure cooker? I'd sooner make $4M on the gulf than $10M where I'm roasted if my shoelaces are the wrong color.

2) Regardless of who is running the show, their top job should be overhauling the culture. Playoff success is having enough talent that's willing to run through a wall to win (and still needing a fair amount of luck). You could make all the right moves and still come up short, but that's where you start to turn things around.

For the challenge.

Let’s be honest - - all GMs and coaches have huge egos. Cooper and Babcock are proven champions, so their ego is understandable. Dubas and Bozo the Keefe are five time losers, so nothing about their ego is warranted.

Cooper has won in Tampa so there’s nothing left for him to accomplish there. Winning a cup in Toronto for the first time in 57+ years would be a tremendous accomplishment and cement his status as a coaching legend. And several extra millions is also a nice cherry on top of the sundae.

Cooper would basically own the city of Toronto for life if he did that.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Plenty of first time GMs and coaches win cups.

FYI, you are only a rookie after the first year.

 

[Twowingcantfly]

When Shanahan was named president. I felt relieved that finally the hockey Gods favor us. Especially after the signing of Lou Lamerelo, Jacques Lemaire, Mark Hunter. We had Mike Babcock. This was a team heading in the right direction. Not sure what happened. But Lou, Jacques, and Hunter were gone soon after. This is where it all stopped making sense. We bring in Dubas( maybe a MLSE move over Shanahan 'head). When we sign JT; (shock of my life) it was clear he was not a Babcock type(On Babcock 's team, everyone kills penalties). Because of one signing, we had to give up supporting cast. Kadri turned into a second line center in Colorado. Kapenen was shipped to Pittsburgh. I remember Babcock's comment when we signed Spezza. "Can he kill penalties". This was an indirect jab at Dubas. Not because he signed Spezza. But because he signed another player who can't kill penalties. Look at the teams who make the final 4 every year. All their players can kill penalties, if need be.
It is time this organization wakes up. And quit meddling, and allow the coach to do his job.

 

[ULF_55]

No.

They've come up against better teams, and their most expensive players have failed to step up.

Coaching is part of it, but two times the dynamic duel have been held to 1 single goal in a playoff round.

The only way that could have been avoided would have been if they weren't with the team. The rookie President didn't take their opportunities away, the rookie GM didn't take their talent away, the rookie coach didn't take their courage away.

This is completely on the players failing to meet the challenge.

However, it is easier to fire the president, general manager and coach, than move the Triple Double.

 

[horner]

For the challenge.

Let’s be honest - - all GMs and coaches have huge egos. Cooper and Babcock are proven champions, so their ego is understandable. Dubas and Bozo the Keefe are five time losers, so nothing about their ego is warranted.

Cooper has won in Tampa so there’s nothing left for him to accomplish there. Winning a cup in Toronto for the first time in 57+ years would be a tremendous accomplishment and cement his status as a coaching legend. And several extra millions is also a nice cherry on top of the sundae.

Cooper would basically own the city of Toronto for life if he did that.

Can he bring Vasi with him

 

[Warden of the North]

Ya, because the days of Burke, Nonis, Poulin, Loiselle, and Wilson/Carlyle were so much better.

And then I distinctly remember Babcock being absolutely schooled by Cassidy, himself a young coach at the time.

 

[LeafSteel]

God, I would throw money at Jon Cooper like no tomorrow to come and coach, with an eye to potential move to GM if that was his inclination.

Mike Gillis or George McPhee at GM and Jon Cooper at Head Coach? YES PLEASE!

Huge improvement over Dubas/Keefe without even having played a game yet.

1) Why on Earth would Cooper want to leave Tampa for such a pressure cooker? I'd sooner make $4M on the gulf than $10M where I'm roasted if my shoelaces are the wrong color.

I helped you out by highlighting why, since you didn't seem to get it the first time.

You are welcome!

 

[horner]

Dubas had tunnel vision...he could not imagine the Leafs could win any other way except to have 4 forwards taking up half the cap...so stupid...he could have moved Marner or Nylander to free up cap space and sign Alex Pietrangelo...and some fans worship him like he's some kind of genius GM, lol...there isn't a GM who has inherited more, but done less.

Now it is almost to late to make significant changes till JT is gone.
It's sad that the only option will be trading Nylander we can't have another 10 million dollar forward.
54 million = mathews marner Nylander TJ Morgan . Except for Rielly they are skilled and soft ( mathews fight with Stamkos embarrassing .
If we had a Tkachuk it may work .

Nylander for a 1st + top prospect

At 10 mill we can get 2 solid players with bite
Orlov 6 mil
Killorn 4.5

Then sign
Bertuzzi 5 mil
Schenn 1.5 mil
Soucy 2.5 mil

Sammy 4 mil

We need to surround these players with some grit and bite.

What happened to knies can never happen again

 

[jkutswings]

I helped you out by highlighting why, since you didn't seem to get it the first time.

You are welcome!

I didn't miss it. Maybe Cooper is wired that way, maybe not. I'm just saying that even if Toronto offered GM duties and a stake in ownership, there are plenty of good coaches that would take a hard pass on working in the eye of the tornado.

 

[deprw]

Well Scott Bowman is the last coach that won cups with two different organizations. 70s Canadiens and 90s Red Wings. Pretty good teams and organizations. So usually it is inexperienced coach that wins. Tortorella was young man, when he got his. Same goes with GMs.

It isn't clear cut case.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

This is all Tanenbaum's fault.

This is what happens when some dip from DOPS with no experience gets made President of a multi-billion dollar NHL franchise.

If I told you ten years ago that some guy with no experience in running a hockey team would be made POHO of the NHL's most prestigious franchise would you have believed me? Now what if I told you that he was going to hire some guy with no experience to be GM? Who in turn would hire someone with no experience to be head coach?

Would you have believed me if I told you that?

Of course not, don't be ridiculous. You would have thought I was making it all up. Nobody in their right mind would have believed me.

But that's actually really what happened.

No experience putting a team together. No experience with salary cap. No experience with roster construction.

Nope, none of that.

Shanahan went from giving players the equivalent of a timeout for bad behaviour to running the biggest show in the game.

And Tanenbaum wonders why they haven't won a cup yet.

 

[New User Name]

Remember when Shanahan said something about players should take less for the team? How did that work out Brendan?

Unbelievable he was that stupid to say that.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Have you stopped to consider that perhaps the owners of the team simply weren’t willing to improve the contract offer they approved for Dubas?

It sounds like they were reluctant to extend Dubas at all. So perhaps after his, “I don’t know if I want to continue to be the GM of the Leafs” press conference, coupled with the fact he came back asking for significantly more money and more power they simply said no.

I mean, I guess they could be telling the truth.

If that's the case, it is very concerning to me that Shanahan even offered the position to Dubas again without waiting for the results of the playoffs.

And now that the offer has been removed, it makes me wonder why it was on the table to begin with.

Does Shanahan really think Dubas can easily be replaced?

If yes, why offer him a contract to begin with when the results have been lackluster.

If no, why are they not give him a bit more money and authority?

Shanahan just sat around and watched while Dubas botched the rebuild the whole time anyway.