Is tanking in baseball a problem?

[rangerssharks414]

Here are some of the records of some MLB teams going into May 8th.

BAL: 8-26
CHW: 9-23
KC: 11-23
TEX: 14-23
MIA: 13-21
CIN: 8-27
SD: 13-23

Let's be honest, none of those teams had any chance of winning anything this year. With the success of the Astros (and to a lesser extent, the Cubs), how much do you think teams are trying to tank? I know that the MLB bust rate is by far the highest of the four North American sports leagues, and that there's no salary floor in baseball. But there's obviously a much better chance for an impact player at the top of the draft.

Instead of being just bad, why not be comically bad and try for the first pick? How much of this is tanking? I'd honestly like to see baseball implement a cap floor (but not a salary cap), but I highly doubt that happens.

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[Belieber]

Baltimore is like the Canucks of MLB, they're actually trying they're just a joke.

I don't think a first overall has the same value as other sports, you can get a franchise player at 7 or 21 or 45 or 145 or draft a guy that never plays with a top 5 pick.

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Yeah teams in baseball dont tank for the 1st overall pick, they tank to save money, get larger quantities of picks and as a positive side effect give their kids playing time. As a result its a lot less frowned upon and has been pretty common for as long as i can remember.

The thing is thanks to analytics you get a lot less bad orgs nowadays that keep throwing money around to keep a mediocre core competitive as in within reach of the playoffs. Teams have a better idea now when their window closes and act accordingly.

 

[Benneguin]

Yeah teams in baseball dont tank for the 1st overall pick, they tank to save money, get larger quantities of picks and as a positive side effect give their kids playing time. As a result its a lot less frowned upon and has been pretty common for as long as i can remember.

The thing is thanks to analytics you get a lot less bad orgs nowadays that keep throwing money around to keep a mediocre core competitive as in within reach of the playoffs. Teams have a better idea now when their window closes and act accordingly.

Or in the case of Miami, know when the window is actually a brick wall.

 

[darko]

Tanking in baseball is pointless. Best player in the game was picked 25th overall. 3rd greatest player of our generation (Pujols) was picked in 13th round.

 

[rent free]

its a problem for teams that want to get out of the rebuild stage and want to start winning because once you tank its pretty hard to get out of the basement

 

[rangerssharks414]

Do you guys think a salary floor is a good idea? I mean, it'd be difficult to implement since young players make peanuts (relatively speaking).

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Sorry if this derails, but man, that was a quick run for KC. After years of rebuild, they got their championship and headed right for the basement.

 

[tony d]

Don't think so. The draft is less important in baseball than in the other sports so I doubt there's much tanking.

 

[Tecumseh]

This isn’t tanking. This is just how most small market teams have to operate since they can’t match the financial resources of teams like the Dodgers and Yankees can throw at free agents or their own ballplayers.

 

[rent free]

Sorry if this derails, but man, that was a quick run for KC. After years of rebuild, they got their championship and headed right for the basement.

shoulda traded their core at last year's deadline

 

[TheMoreYouKnow]

Of course it is tanking in the sense that you accept being a terrible team in order to 'rebuild' i.e. save a ton of money while your prospect pool is slowly improving and maturing. In the NHL and NBA we define tanking as teams getting rid of their better players and playing cheap players in order to facilitate high draft picks so as to rebuild their core with potential elite prospects. In baseball the exact modus operandi is different but the motivation and symptoms are the same.

Except in baseball we have actually seen teams where it was questionable if they ever truly sought to have a window of opportunity in the first place i.e. they habitually get rid of any expensive players and are almost in a permanent rebuild.

I actually don't think any other sport has ever seen a tank as deliberate and brutal as that of the Expos in the last few years of their existence in Montreal. That was owners who were actively trying to bring the team down. They probably would have played volunteer amateurs if they could have gotten away with it.

 

[Bjorn Le]

Do you guys think a salary floor is a good idea? I mean, it'd be difficult to implement since young players make peanuts (relatively speaking).

Yes. But the owners will never go for it and the MLBPA while they would like it, won’t die on a hill for it.

The question is also how low to set it at . $50 mil? $75 mil? $100 mil? Somewhere in between? $50 mil probably doesn’t evoke any real change while $100 mil borders on making some small market teams unprofitable (and inflates the number of bad contracts).

I think a floor of a third of the payroll of the second highest spending team in the previous year (second to avoid the top being a crazy outlier) would be a good starting place.

 

[blueandgoldguy]

Tanking in baseball is pointless. Best player in the game was picked 25th overall. 3rd greatest player of our generation (Pujols) was picked in 13th round.

Yeah I agree. Comparing high draft picks (top-10) in baseball with the other big-3 pro leagues and the number of hall-of famers, very good and good players in the other 3 dwarf the number found in the MLB draft over past decades.

 

[AtlantaWhaler]

Tanking in baseball is pointless. Best player in the game was picked 25th overall. 3rd greatest player of our generation (Pujols) was picked in 13th round.

Agreed. Pretty rare there’s a can’t miss at #1 like a Harper or Chipper

 

[Blitzkrug]

the thing is i don't think a lot of those teams are tanking on purpose.

Kansas City, San Diego, Texas and hilariously, Baltimore all went into the season with hopes of being competitive. The only outright tanks on that list are Miami, Cincy and Chicago.

There's a difference between tanking (Miami/Chicago) and just sucking ass (Baltimore)

 

[Machinehead]

The problem is, there's no salary floor and owners pocket the money.

I can understand KC, Baltimore, and Miami, as they're three of the six teams who lost money in 2017, but you can't tell me Chicago, Texas, and Cincinnati can't spend if they want. They've done it before.

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Tanking is pointless when the draft is a crapshoot more often than not.

This is just owners not wanting to spend for the right to be average, mixed in with a side of inept management in a few of those cases.

Sorry if this derails, but man, that was a quick run for KC. After years of rebuild, they got their championship and headed right for the basement.

I'd have killed for that.

 

[Winger98]

The problem is, there's no salary floor and owners pocket the money.

I can understand KC, Baltimore, and Miami, as they're three of the six teams who lost money in 2017, but you can't tell me Chicago, Texas, and Cincinnati can't spend if they want. They've done it before.

If there's a floor, I think there has to be a hard cap and not one as high as the luxury tax is currently.

 

[Cassano]

Nope. Baseball provides the best parity among the top NA sports. 5 years ago, the Houston Astros lost 111 games. Last year, the Phillies lost 96.

 

[awfulwaffle]

Do you guys think a salary floor is a good idea? I mean, it'd be difficult to implement since young players make peanuts (relatively speaking).

I mean, baseball has tried to something about the salary issue, with the luxury tax concept. But really, there won't ever be a floor because the players union would NEVER allow a ceiling. You have to have a ceiling or some kind of system in place to ensure teams that don't have the money but have to make the floor are still viable. Baseball is a different beast. I remember back just after the DBacks won the 2001 world series, Curt Schilling was on a radio interview and was talking about the money situation in baseball. His reply was "We love the current system", well no crap sherlock, there is no limit to what teams can spend, so the massive TV deals that are out there are only going to increase the salaries of MLB players.

I think there is going to be an issue once it comes to a point where the TV money is stagnated(or reduced). It will happen down the road, all major sports leagues are going to come into an issue where TV stations just aren't going to pay what they have(or possible will pay) for the rights. But baseball could be hit the hardest because they don't have a salary cap.

 

[darko]

If there's a floor, I think there has to be a hard cap and not one as high as the luxury tax is currently.

Hard cap won't happen. Too many teams prefer the system as it is. Big boys get to spend like crazy and little boys get their slice of the pie through revenue sharing. Everyone goes home happy.

 

[Winger98]

Hard cap won't happen. Too many teams prefer the system as it is. Big boys get to spend like crazy and little boys get their slice of the pie through revenue sharing. Everyone goes home happy.

I don't think it'll happen, either, though the stiff penalties for going over the luxury tax limit seems to be biting hard enough to get some teams to reel it in a bit. I'm just saying that I don't see a floor working without a ceiling.

 

[SeattleSportsFan]

The MLB is not like the NHL. As others have said in this thread, tanking in baseball is pointless. Smaller market teams have no chance against the bigger market teams.

 

[Bjorn Le]

It’s not really tanking per se that is the problem. It’s teams that know they probably can’t win the World Series who chose to spend like bottom feeders. It makes the season less exciting and it’s bax for the game.

Part of the problem is the restrictive playoff system.