Is KHL still the best league in Europe?

[SeaOfBlue]

KHL has a higher high end, but lower low end than the SHL. So it depends on what you prefer.

The best talent outside of North America is commonly in the KHL. SHL, Liiga, Czechia, etc. have some top guys, but they are usually a small handful of a select few that are often taken high in drafts and quickly make the NHL. A few late-bloomers eventually can make the NHL as well, but I think the KHL probably has more than all of those leagues combined.

It is more common to see non-elite prospects come from the KHL and immediately crack an NHL lineup vs. the SHL (although it is more common recently, usually Russians didn't even bother coming over until they were able to do so). I think unless you are in the top-tier of SHL talent (i.e. top 5 or maybe top 10 talents), you usually need to spend time in the AHL before making it to the NHL... And I think even the likes of Hardy Haman Aktell (a guy who should be among the most attractive Euro UFA's this year, if not the undisputed #1) will likely need at least one year in the AHL before he can seriously challenge for an NHL job. Whereas Grigori Dronov, who is the same age and is also a LHD who should attract NA interest again this year, could realistically challenge for an NHL job next year...

Or we can just look at how Kuzmenko, Bobrovsky, Panarin, Zub, Zaitsev, Mikheyev, etc. all made the direct jump to the NHL after being signed out of the KHL as UFA's and stayed there. I don't think any SHL players have directly made the NHL after being signed as UFA's. Bjork on CBJ is probably the closest to it that I can recall, and that took a crap ton of injuries.

Personally, the more interesting question is where the AHL ranks on the list. I think some of the Euro leagues have more high end talent, but I think an average AHL squad would beat an average squad in any of the Euro leagues. Would actually be interesting to see a modified version of the Champions League involving the AHL if it were not for the cost aspect.

 

[Eye of Ra]

Also 2 Latvian, 1 Finn, 1 German, 1 French, 1 Slovenian, 1 Japanese... also players with Belarus, Kazakhstan and China passports (among them there are a lot of players who are actually from other countries). But hey, the OP says "with all non-Russians leaving", so he must know something.

why are you playing dumb?`compare the number of non-russians last season with this season.

 

[Caser]

why are you playing dumb?`compare the number of non-russians last season with this season.

It is down, approximately at 50% comparing to the number that was there last season. Still not exactly "with all non-Russians leaving", don't you think?

 

[Eye of Ra]

It is down, approximately at 50% comparing to the number that was there last season. Still not exactly "with all non-Russians leaving", don't you think?

almost all swedes, finns, latvians and czechs has left.

 

[Caser]

almost all swedes, finns, latvians and czechs has left.

I can agree with that statement, but again it is somewhat different comparing to what you initially wrote in the OP.

 

[Eye of Ra]

KHL has a higher high end, but lower low end than the SHL. So it depends on what you prefer.

The best talent outside of North America is commonly in the KHL. SHL, Liiga, Czechia, etc. have some top guys, but they are usually a small handful of a select few that are often taken high in drafts and quickly make the NHL. A few late-bloomers eventually can make the NHL as well, but I think the KHL probably has more than all of those leagues combined.

It is more common to see non-elite prospects come from the KHL and immediately crack an NHL lineup vs. the SHL (although it is more common recently, usually Russians didn't even bother coming over until they were able to do so). I think unless you are in the top-tier of SHL talent (i.e. top 5 or maybe top 10 talents), you usually need to spend time in the AHL before making it to the NHL... And I think even the likes of Hardy Haman Aktell (a guy who should be among the most attractive Euro UFA's this year, if not the undisputed #1) will likely need at least one year in the AHL before he can seriously challenge for an NHL job. Whereas Grigori Dronov, who is the same age and is also a LHD who should attract NA interest again this year, could realistically challenge for an NHL job next year...

Or we can just look at how Kuzmenko, Bobrovsky, Panarin, Zub, Zaitsev, Mikheyev, etc. all made the direct jump to the NHL after being signed out of the KHL as UFA's and stayed there. I don't think any SHL players have directly made the NHL after being signed as UFA's. Bjork on CBJ is probably the closest to it that I can recall, and that took a crap ton of injuries.

Personally, the more interesting question is where the AHL ranks on the list. I think some of the Euro leagues have more high end talent, but I think an average AHL squad would beat an average squad in any of the Euro leagues. Would actually be interesting to see a modified version of the Champions League involving the AHL if it were not for the cost aspect.

Problem is, all top talents in Sweden leave for north america at very early age while many russians stay in Russia.

And there is no way Hardy Haman Aktell is ever gonna be a NHLer. He is too clumsy with the puck.

I can agree with that statement, but again it is somewhat different comparing to what you initially wrote in the OP.

with all the czechs, swedes, finss and latvians that have left, the quality of the khl have dropped.

 

[Albatros]

Problem is, all top talents in Sweden leave for north america at very early age while many russians stay in Russia.

Many guys that can have a reasonable role in Sweden are loaned back immediately even if they do sign though. But the SHL is not a developmental league, so even for good prospects there isn't always a big role available at 18 or 19. All of the 1st round picks from last year are still in Sweden, but just one of them has played an SHL game this season. The other three are in the 2nd tier Allsvenskan and Lekkerimäki has also played junior games.

 

[Czechboy]

almost all swedes, finns, latvians and czechs has left.

And most of the players were TOP players from those countries. The best Czechs in Europe aren't in the Extraliga so when they leave the KHL to join NLA/Liiga/SEL then those leagues get a little stronger and the league they left gets a little weaker IMO. I assume the same for the Finns, Latvians and Swedes. Eg. this is the first Spring where I'm fine with a few Extraliga guys on our Skoda Cup roster.. something I almost never type! And I really want our NLA guys to join the national team. I assume this is the same for the other nations going to the Skoda. Although Jaskin would've been nice, big fan and have no idea why he sucks in the NHL as he has that kind of game. Mind you, he's a 3rd or 4th liner on the NT.

But, 2 less teams so competiton gets bigger and a lot of North Americans came running over to fill the void and I have no idea how to compare Lukas Sedlak to Ryan Spooner.lol

 

[Caser]

You really need to study politics for 5 years to verify the accuracy of his statement?
More like you just like to play dumb, this thread is a good indicator

To be more or less competent in any field I need at least 4 years (that's why I registered here only in 2013 btw) and if I'm not competent I better keep my mouth shut unless the situation forces me to do otherwise.

As for "playing dumb", if losing about 50% of KHL foreigners to you is the same as losing "all non-Russians", I'm not sure how to react - I mean, I studied some math for 14 years total and I think I'm competent enough to insist that's not closely true and there is a non-neglectable difference between 50% and 100%.

 

[Czechboy]

To be more or less competent in any field I need at least 4 years (that's why I registered here only in 2013 btw) and if I'm not competent I better keep my mouth shut unless the situation forces me to do otherwise.

As for "playing dumb", if losing about 50% of KHL foreigners to you is the same as losing "all non-Russians", I'm not sure how to react - I mean, I studied some math for 14 years total and I think I'm competent enough to insist that's not closely true and there is a non-neglectable difference between 50% and 100%.

Few questions for you:

1. Do you feel the KHL is stronger, the same or weaker this season? Why?

2. Do you feel that the 'non Russians' in the league are as strong as the 'non Russians' in the league last season (before some nations mostly left)? Why?

 

[Caser]

Few questions for you:

1. Do you feel the KHL is stronger, the same or weaker this season? Why?

2. Do you feel that the 'non Russians' in the league are as strong as the 'non Russians' in the league last season (before some nations mostly left)? Why?

1. KHL is weaker, as for why it is not that easy to explain. In my mind there is a model that top European leagues on average are consisting of 2/3 of domestic talent and 1/3 of imports. So if we think of 50% import decrease it would mean losing total about 16% of the talent pool, so obvious decline of talent amount. However here I would like to stress two notable details: first is that the decline hit harder the attacking pool, which led to the scoring becoming notably lower (not like it relates to the quality topic much, but still). Second detail is that partially the imports were successfully replaced by the domestic talent - they are also imports in some way, as they moved to the KHL from other leagues too. So in the end if I'd have to express it in some numbers I'd say that the KHL has become like 10% weaker.

2. I feel the quality has been more or less the same. As for why first reason is that a lot of guys are just the same guys who played there before, as for new guys the majority of them seem to be nicely fitting to the new roles, but that's not really based on anything other than my opinion. If talking about the numbers to back it up I'd say if we look at the Top50 scorers, last season there were 28 imports there, this season there are 19, so considering that 50% decrease they replaced those decently enough.

 

[NatusVincere]

It’s always about the money, generally speaking. The best players gravitate to where money is and the KHL and NL pay imports the most. Money = Talent

Not surprisingly most Euro-league players good enough for the American and Canadian 2022 Olympic squads came from these 2 leagues. Combined breakdown:
KHL - 12
NL - 5
DEL - 4
SHL - 4

100% correct imo.

It seems the Swedish Hockey League (SHL) really wanted Johan Larsson back. Enough to make him the highest paid player ever in the league. Larsson signed a three-year deal with Brynas of the SHL earlier this week and Sportbladet has revealed the details.
Johan Larsson's new contract makes him the highest paid SHL player in history
According to the Swedish media outlet, Larsson's new deal with Brynas will see him get a salary of 310,000 SEK per month. That's about $31,000 USD a month, or around $372,000 per year.

In contrast, the KHL pays several players million$ contracts. And in average it looks like:

1. NHL – $2.69 million USD Avg. Salary

2. KHL (Russia) – $425,000 USD Avg. Salary

3. NL (Swiss) – $228,000 USD Avg. Salary

4. SHL (Sweden) – $110,000 USD Avg. Salary

5. SM-Liiga (Finland) – $100,000 USD Avg. Salary

That's why almost every Swede capable of playing a full time role in the NHL is playing there... or even prefer to play as import in Swiss if good enough. What leads to this situation:

The best talent outside of North America is commonly in the KHL. SHL, Liiga, Czechia, etc. have some top guys, but they are usually a small handful of a select few that are often taken high in drafts and quickly make the NHL. A few late-bloomers eventually can make the NHL as well, but I think the KHL probably has more than all of those leagues combined.

It is more common to see non-elite prospects come from the KHL and immediately crack an NHL lineup vs. the SHL (although it is more common recently, usually Russians didn't even bother coming over until they were able to do so). I think unless you are in the top-tier of SHL talent (i.e. top 5 or maybe top 10 talents), you usually need to spend time in the AHL before making it to the NHL... And I think even the likes of Hardy Haman Aktell (a guy who should be among the most attractive Euro UFA's this year, if not the undisputed #1) will likely need at least one year in the AHL before he can seriously challenge for an NHL job. Whereas Grigori Dronov, who is the same age and is also a LHD who should attract NA interest again this year, could realistically challenge for an NHL job next year...

Or we can just look at how Kuzmenko, Bobrovsky, Panarin, Zub, Zaitsev, Mikheyev, etc. all made the direct jump to the NHL after being signed out of the KHL as UFA's and stayed there. I don't think any SHL players have directly made the NHL after being signed as UFA's. Bjork on CBJ is probably the closest to it that I can recall, and that took a crap ton of injuries.

 

[Garl]

To be more or less competent in any field I need at least 4 years (that's why I registered here only in 2013 btw) and if I'm not competent I better keep my mouth shut unless the situation forces me to do otherwise.

As for "playing dumb", if losing about 50% of KHL foreigners to you is the same as losing "all non-Russians", I'm not sure how to react - I mean, I studied some math for 14 years total and I think I'm competent enough to insist that's not closely true and there is a non-neglectable difference between 50% and 100%.

You don't need 4 years to learn whether right now there are any people on Mars. Just like you don't need 4 years to check whether some countries are at war with others using your own 100% factual approach.

KHL didn't lose all non-russians, but it lost majority of impact foreigners. Almost all of the top foreigners are gone

And we are not arguing about numbers here.

 

[Albatros]

In contrast, the KHL pays several players million$ contracts. And in average it looks like:

1. NHL – $2.69 million USD Avg. Salary

2. KHL (Russia) – $425,000 USD Avg. Salary

3. NL (Swiss) – $228,000 USD Avg. Salary

4. SHL (Sweden) – $110,000 USD Avg. Salary

5. SM-Liiga (Finland) – $100,000 USD Avg. Salary

A lot of air in those numbers if you really mean to talk about averages.

 

[Garl]

KHL has a higher high end, but lower low end than the SHL. So it depends on what you prefer.

The best talent outside of North America is commonly in the KHL. SHL, Liiga, Czechia, etc. have some top guys, but they are usually a small handful of a select few that are often taken high in drafts and quickly make the NHL. A few late-bloomers eventually can make the NHL as well, but I think the KHL probably has more than all of those leagues combined.

It is more common to see non-elite prospects come from the KHL and immediately crack an NHL lineup vs. the SHL (although it is more common recently, usually Russians didn't even bother coming over until they were able to do so). I think unless you are in the top-tier of SHL talent (i.e. top 5 or maybe top 10 talents), you usually need to spend time in the AHL before making it to the NHL... And I think even the likes of Hardy Haman Aktell (a guy who should be among the most attractive Euro UFA's this year, if not the undisputed #1) will likely need at least one year in the AHL before he can seriously challenge for an NHL job. Whereas Grigori Dronov, who is the same age and is also a LHD who should attract NA interest again this year, could realistically challenge for an NHL job next year...

Or we can just look at how Kuzmenko, Bobrovsky, Panarin, Zub, Zaitsev, Mikheyev, etc. all made the direct jump to the NHL after being signed out of the KHL as UFA's and stayed there. I don't think any SHL players have directly made the NHL after being signed as UFA's. Bjork on CBJ is probably the closest to it that I can recall, and that took a crap ton of injuries.

Personally, the more interesting question is where the AHL ranks on the list. I think some of the Euro leagues have more high end talent, but I think an average AHL squad would beat an average squad in any of the Euro leagues. Would actually be interesting to see a modified version of the Champions League involving the AHL if it were not for the cost aspect.

Then there are Shipachyov, Semenov, Gusev, Aaltonen, Slepyshev, Grigorenko, Mamin, Burdasov, Jaskin, Tkachyov etc

It is just that players with the same skillset as bolded from Sweden would be in NHL long time before and would probably go trough the AHL.

However, there have been cases of direct jumps of course, Bellemare, Silfverberg, Janmark, Klingberg, Brunnstrom, Soderberg, Fasth

100% correct imo.

It seems the Swedish Hockey League (SHL) really wanted Johan Larsson back. Enough to make him the highest paid player ever in the league. Larsson signed a three-year deal with Brynas of the SHL earlier this week and Sportbladet has revealed the details.
Johan Larsson's new contract makes him the highest paid SHL player in history
According to the Swedish media outlet, Larsson's new deal with Brynas will see him get a salary of 310,000 SEK per month. That's about $31,000 USD a month, or around $372,000 per year.

In contrast, the KHL pays several players million$ contracts. And in average it looks like:

1. NHL – $2.69 million USD Avg. Salary

2. KHL (Russia) – $425,000 USD Avg. Salary

3. NL (Swiss) – $228,000 USD Avg. Salary

4. SHL (Sweden) – $110,000 USD Avg. Salary

5. SM-Liiga (Finland) – $100,000 USD Avg. Salary

That's why almost every Swede capable of playing a full time role in the NHL is playing there... or even prefer to play as import in Swiss if good enough. What leads to this situation:

That mostly shows only that KHL is overpaying their average players.

And yes, almost every Russian capable of playing a full time role in the NHL is playing there.

 

[Caser]

You don't need 4 years to learn whether right now there are any people on Mars. Just like you don't need 4 years to check whether some countries are at war with others using your own 100% factual approach.

KHL didn't lose all non-russians, but it lost majority of impact foreigners. Almost all of the top foreigners are gone

And we are not arguing about numbers here.

I was arguing exactly about numbers. And again, even here just to clarify, your "almost all of the top foreigners" means, if trying to express with the numbers, 18 out of 28 foreign guys who were there in the Top50; 10 decided to stay. So here it's more like 65%, so the "majority" - yes, "Almost all of the top foreigners" - I'm not sure about that.

 

[Garl]

I was arguing exactly about numbers. And again, even here just to clarify, your "almost all of the top foreigners" means, if trying to express with the numbers, 18 out of 28 foreign guys who were there in the Top50; 10 decided to stay. So here it's more like 65%, so the "majority" - yes, "Almost all of the top foreigners" - I'm not sure about that.

Semantics. Almost all(absolute Majority for you) of top foreigners left the league

 

[Caser]

Semantics. Almost all(absolute Majority for you) of top foreigners left the league

Just for me "almost all" is like 90%, but yeah, 65% can be counted as absolute majority I think.

 

[jcbio11]

The most important thing that needs to be said in this thread is that the quality of the KHL does not matter at all at this point. It's a rusian league filled with russian players, who can't compete internationally because they've isolated themselves from the rest of the hockey world (same situation in soccer).

 

[Czechboy]

I actually like this topic a lot and hope we can keep it on track.

I noticed above that someone said the SHL guys don't go to the NHL directly. I felt was not true and have been waiting for a Sweden to come in and point out all the SEL guys that did go directly to the NHL. I feel like it's a pretty high number TBH. But I'm not a Swede expert but I feel like there are many here who are.

Eg. I can confidently say that almost no one goes from Extraliga to NHL directly.. Rutta did it, Vejmelka did it and Hertl did a long time ago. I may be missing someone but 3 guys in 12 years is pretty obvious. I feel like Sweden would have a much higher number than this? Lukas Raymond? Rasmus Dahlin? They come to mind but I feel like there would be a lot more...

 

[Caser]

The most important thing that needs to be said in this thread is that the quality of the KHL does not matter at all at this point. It's a rusian league filled with russian players, who can't compete internationally because they've isolated themselves from the rest of the hockey world (same situation in soccer).

Does not matter to you, as you can notice that even here there are a lot of people who clearly care about it. If that's not enough to you, you can always visit the Michkov's thread where it is almost like a holywar already lol.

 

[Czechboy]

Does not matter to you, as you can notice that even here there are a lot of people who clearly care about it. If that's not enough to you, you can always visit the Michkov's thread where it is almost like a holywar already lol.

Best thread in HF IMO Round 3 was my fav.lol This round is getting a bit repetitive though.

Oilers after a loss is another good one (I imagine that board is hopping today though! Smoked the Leafs.... plan the parade)

Lambert thread was amazing for awhile too but then he went to Junior and started scoring a lot.

 

[Caser]

Best thread in HF IMO Round 3 was my fav.lol This round is getting a bit repetitive though.

Oilers after a loss is another good one (I imagine that board is hopping today though! Smoked the Leafs.... plan the parade)

Lambert thread was amazing for awhile too but then he went to Junior and started scoring a lot.

I think Michkov's Michigan goal performance recently kind of refreshed the discussion a bit, although that might be a bit of a wishful thinking lol. Some of the trade discussion threads certainly deserve the mention too, maybe not always in a good way lol.

 

[Hanji]

The most important thing that needs to be said in this thread is that the quality of the KHL does not matter at all at this point. It's a rusian league filled with russian players, who can't compete internationally because they've isolated themselves from the rest of the hockey world (same situation in soccer).

Hey, why even post about such things because the KHL doesn't matter now, right?

Perhaps people want to discuss these topics without bitter posters virtue signalling at every opportunity.

cmon now stay on topic.

 

[Albatros]

Hey, why even post about such things because the KHL doesn't matter now, right?

Perhaps people want to discuss these topics without bitter posters virtue signalling at every opportunity.

cmon now stay on topic.

Either way the KHL still has its very own section here.