Is Gretzky the most dominant athlete ever in any major sport?

[Hobnobs]

Biathlon actually, to use the exact term.

The most dominating (cross-country) skier of all-time would probably be Bjørn Dæhlie (or is that too 'modern' a choice?).

Ingemar Stenmark really dominated slalom/giant slalom in the 1970s/early 1980s. But should he be 'penalized' because he wasn't so called all-rounder?

Ski-jumping: Matti Nykänen

Wrote skiing cause I was pretty sure the yanks wouldnt know what biathlon is

 

[Hobnobs]

Jan-Ove Waldner - The best ping pong player of all-time. Simply dominant.

 

[vadim sharifijanov]

and p.s., re: wilt vs. russell--

"The only team in the league that plays me with one man is the Boston Celtics with Bill Russell. They can do this because Russell is the game's defensive ace. Bill is 6 feet 9 1/2, with long arms and beautiful timing. He seems to hang suspended in the air almost half the night. He makes me shoot higher than I usually do, and his tremendous reach leaves my hook shot useless."

-- Wilt Chamberlain

source: http://books.google.com/books?id=b7bB1FXutcMC&dq=russell+wilt+"game+7"+"4-0"&source=gbs_navlinks_s


he actually reminds me in some ways of mario. with his talent and physical advantages, as well as HHOF-level teammates, he probably should have won more than two championships. both, rightly or wrongly, also had reputations for running up scores and padding their numbers during blowouts. both also quit the game, each citing physical punishment and inconsistent reffing as the major reason. i.e., packed up their toys and went home.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Michael Jordan was as clutch and as good as Gretzky, Sammy Sosa to boot along with McGwire and I'll just throw Walter Payton and Payton Manning into the mix..

Walter Payton was one of the most skilled RB's I have ever seen - not to mention the guy would run up hills with 150 pounds of weight on his back - which is absolutely insane.

I'm not the biggest basketball fan but Michael Jordan was what Wayne Gretzky is to hockey...

Sammy Sosa? You have to be ****ing joking.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

Sammy Sosa? You have to be ****ing joking.

Sosa was pretty impressive in his prime - he hit like 32 homers in a month (I believe it was May of 2003)...

If we're talking baseball another Cub that was outstanding was Andre Dawson.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Wrote skiing cause I was pretty sure the yanks wouldnt know what biathlon is

Give us a little credit.

 

[Hawksfan2828]

You know what odd sport I actually enjoy - curling.

I know it looks stupid but it's actually like bowling mixed with ice and horse shoes

Oh well...

Well it's also comedic at times with the guys with the brooms..

It's a hoot to play.

 

[Cruor]

Jan-Ove Waldner - The best ping pong player of all-time. Simply dominant.

For good measure:



Known as the "ever green tree" in China

 

[bambamcam4ever]

Sosa was pretty impressive in his prime - he hit like 32 homers in a month (I believe it was May of 2003)...

If we're talking baseball another Cub that was outstanding was Andre Dawson.

I don't usually consider outfielders with a career OBP of .323 to be "outstanding." Actually, that is average at best. Sorry to break it to you, but there are other teams and players in baseball besides those in Chicago. The Cubs haven't had a ton of great teams in the past century, and have had even fewer truly great players.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

You know what odd sport I actually enjoy - curling.

I know it looks stupid but it's actually like bowling mixed with ice and horse shoes

Oh well...

Well it's also comedic at times with the guys with the brooms..

It's a hoot to play.

Odd sport? Comedic? Watch your tongue around so many Canadians. The Sochi Olympics produced a double-double for us - gold in men's and women's hockey, and gold in men's and women's curling.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

Sosa was pretty impressive in his prime - he hit like 32 homers in a month (I believe it was May of 2003)...

Yes, he was so dominant that in the one category that he did things well (hitting homers), he led the majors exactly once, in 2000. Sure, he hit 60 homers three times, but he didn't even lead his league in any of those seasons, demonstrating that the era in which he played had a significant impact on his numbers. "Dominant" home run hitters don't consistently finish second in that category.

 

[Sadekuuro]

His defense above the rim was rather spectacular as well:

'Of all his memories of Wilt Chamberlain, the one that stood out for Larry Brown happened long after Chamberlain's professional career was over.

On a summer day in the early 1980s at the Men's Gym on the UCLA campus, Chamberlain showed up to take part in one of the high-octane pickup games that the arena constantly attracted. Brown was the coach of the Bruins back then, and Chamberlain often drove to UCLA from his home in Bel Air, Calif.

"Magic Johnson used to run the games," Brown recalled Tuesday after hearing that Chamberlain, his friend, had died at the age of 63, "and he called a couple of chintzy fouls and a goaltending on Wilt.

"So Wilt said: 'There will be no more layups in this gym,' and he blocked every shot after that. That's the truth, I saw it. He didn't let one (of Johnson's) shots get to the rim."'

I recall a similar story from his NBA days about the first time he played against Walt Bellamy. They shook hands before the game, the latter introduced himself, and then Chamberlain told him he wouldn't be doing anything during the first half, and blocked all his shots.

Edit: found it:

"When challenged, Wilt could do almost anything he wanted. In 1961 a new star named Walt Bellamy came into the league. Bellamy was 6-foot-10, and was scoring 30 points a game. First time they played against each other, they met at half court. Bellamy said, 'Hello, Mr. Chamberlain. I'm Walter Bellamy.' Chamberlain reached for Bellamy's hand and said, 'Hello, Walter. You won't get a shot off in the first half.' Wilt then blocked Bellamy's first nine shots. At the start of the second half Wilt said to Bellamy, 'Okay, Walter. Now you can play.'"

 

[AlanHUK]

No one dominated like Bradman.

 

[frontsfan2005]

Sosa was pretty impressive in his prime - he hit like 32 homers in a month (I believe it was May of 2003)...

If we're talking baseball another Cub that was outstanding was Andre Dawson.

32 homers in a month? Funny you picked May 2003, Sosa hit one homer that month, lol. Sosa does own the MLB record for homers in a month though, he hit 20 in June 1998. Of course, that's the year McGwire out homered him overall 70-66.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Sammy Sosa is (rightfully) remembered most for the doctored bat, and for his violent denial of steroid use (later proven to be false denials).

 

[DaveG]

It's funny that you even mention Messi and Cruyff, because Pele comfortably destroys both of them.

Pele: 77 goals in 92 games for national team, THREE World Cup golds.
Messi: 42 goals in 93 games for national team, zero World Cup golds.
Cruyff: 33 goals in 48 games for national team, zero World Cup golds.

Which makes me suspicious about the rest of your post.

Maybe you misunderstand me, I'm not personally arguing that they're better then Pele, I'm saying that the top depth at the sport makes it very difficult for a player to be as statistically dominating as Gretzky is when it comes to soccer. I bring them up because they're generally the other names brought up in a best of all time argument for the sport.

That said, I really don't think we can hold Cruyff's lack of a World Cup with Holland against him much the same way I don't think anyone could look at the fact that Bourque never won a Cup in Boston and have that as a legitimate argument that he's not one of the top 5 defensemen of all time. He carried a Holland team that was inferior to a World Cup Final winning the Golden Ball in the process.

I don't disagree with the arguments against Messi that you and others have laid out at all. He's not as good as either Cruyff or Maradona to me, yet alone Pele. I'd even consider Beckenbauer over Messi though obviously they're very different players.

 

[Brooklanders*]

Let's talk strictly professional sports (i.e no Usian Bolt, or other such disciplines).

And by professional sports, i'm thinking team sports (i.e. no Tiger Woods, or Federer).


Hockey, Baseball, Football, Basketball, Soccer...maybe another sport too if you can make a case for it.

Has any athlete dominated his sport as much as Wayne Gretzky had? Perception wise, Michael Jordan I believe is always referred to as one of the greatest, most popular athlete of the 20th century, but his numbers i don't think are all that impressive - not even really best in NBA history. Gretzky seems to be quite a step above to his peers vs someone like Jordan.

I don't know that anyone has ever dominated in football on an individual level, nor in baseball to that extent. I'm not sure about soccer.

Has this been discussed before? What is everyone's thoughts - does Wayne Gretzky run away with this as #1? Who else is in contention?

Jordan's numbers aren't impressive?
I pretty much lost respect for this poll immediately.
Jordan dominated his sport more than Wayne actually.
Lemiuex is a close second and if not for injuries he would have been 1a.
No player in the NBA could match Jordan as he was unquestionably number 1 second to none.
You must be young to strictly talk about numbers but you still couldn't name a player with those accomplishments in his era.
Other than Jordan I have Ruth rated the highest and its Not even close IMHO.
I say Wayne is the third greatest team sport legend.

 

[Brooklanders*]

I'd put this at 3-way tie. Gretzky/Rice/Chamberlain

Pretty sure Wilt still holds more NBA records than Gretzky has NHL records. Both hold many records than will simply never be broken....... ever.

Rice was nothing short of dominant as well and surely the best receiver of all time. I do wonder how his stats would have looked if not for the likes of Montana & Young throwing to him for most of his career.

When its all said and done Megatron's stats will trump Rice.

 

[Killion]

Notice

Kindly refrain from discussing individual pursuits, be it Boxing, Tennis or whatever. The OP was quite clear as to criteria; Team Sports Only.

Thank you. We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming.

 

[Brooklanders*]

Ruth doesn't really own the record book. Doesn't own any major career record. Doesn't own any single season records now. I am not arguing against him. He is pretty clearly the best baseball player to me and in an historical context. But I am just contradicting saying he owns all the records... Because he just doesn't. Aaron and Bonds, Maris, Sosa, McGwire and Bonds beat his two infamous HR records... And Maris and Aaron weren't Roided up. Runs, hits, RBIs aren't his records. Ted Williams is a comparably dominant hitter in the "fancy" stats that actually best measure offence (though he is Ruth's only real peer). Ruth just didn't rip the record books like Gretzky or Chamberlain, or Rice (as a WR not overall NFL best ever).

But then it doesn't matter, he was Babe Ruth and for a few years he did hit more HRs then other whole teams. He did pitch at a very high level.. And then become the best hitter in the world. He is among the most legendary Americans ever. You can't make a very good argument anyone was "better". I am just saying... Statistically he is not close to Gretzky in hockey. Not close at all. And considering how the NHL has been lower scoring for a couple of decades... It looks likely almost all of Gretzky's records will last for a very, very long time.

This is just a silly argument. Everyone on this board claims Sidney Crosby is such a dominate generational player?

So tell me what records does he own?
He's gonna be a first ballot HOF.
So what records will he ever have?
Scoring?
Hardly.
In fact his best one year total is 120 points.
He's only scored over 100 points 5 times.
Crosby has scored over 40 goals only once.
Different eras different times.
Gretzky played in the highest scoring era ever even more so than Lemiuex.
In fact I think Mario was the better player.
Hockey stats are all about scoring and that differs than other sports as well.
Jordan nine first team defense awards and one defensive player of the year award.
Obviously Russell and Wilt trump those because of era as stated before.
Wilt isn't better than Jordan but probably dominated his era more even more so than Wayne. Those type of
Stats don't prove all that much.
If you research ESPN list of greatest NA athletes of all time Jordan and Ruth are ranked above Gretzky.

 

[crobro]

Any thoughts on Leroy satchel paige as the greatest pitcher of all time.

Say what u will about his personal life but roger Clemens was still at the top of his game in his mid forties

 

[canucks4ever]

Most soccer forums tend to favour Maradona over Pele by the way. It makes sense too. He won serie a with a very mediocre franchise and he took a very mediocre argentina team to the world cup twice. Maradona is a midfielder, he's not supposed to dominate statiscally like the way gretzky did.

Maradona won club and international trophies with underdog/mediocre teams. Gretzky couldnt win the stanley cup with the la kings.

Commonsense would suggest soccer is much more difficult to dominate than ice hockey. All of europe and south america and africa play it at a very high level. Hockey's talent pool is much smaller in comparison.

Gretzky may have the pretty stats, but as a gm/owner, I will take diego maradona over any athlete 10 times out of 10. Put diego on a ****** team at club and international level and he will win. He doesn't need talent around him to succeed and thats why most educated soccer fans view maradona as the greatest soccer player of all times.

As for basketball, Lebron James has put together seasons just as good as michael jordan. I dont like doing intersport comparisons, but I would view lebron james above mario lemieux. You can't argue mario over gretzky, however there are many basketball experts that would say lebron peaked just as high as jordan and some would argue that in 2009 he peaked higher. 20 years from now, there will be lebron vs jordan threads everyday. The guys is a just a freakish athlete.

 

[Czech Your Math]

Any thoughts on Leroy satchel paige as the greatest pitcher of all time.

Say what u will about his personal life but roger Clemens was still at the top of his game in his mid forties

In terms of longevity both were great.

In terms of peak or short prime dominance in pitching, I think I'd have to go with Sandy Koufax. I mean, when you're tipping off practically every pitch and guys like Mays, Banks, Stargell, Mantle, etc. are basically left shaking their head and laughing at themselves... and while his prime was short, was incredibly dominant for a few years and extremely clutch as well.

Wanted to add about Babe Ruth's pitching: won 4/5 starts vs. Walter Johnson one year (no decision in the loss) and held the WS record for consecutive scoreless innings (29 2/3?) until White Ford broke it.

 

[canucks4ever]

In the 2009 playoffs, Lebron James posted a player efficiency rating of 37.4. Jordan never did that. In the 2014 playoffs, lebron james posted a true shooting percentage of 66.6% in the playoffs, better than any playoff run jordan or chamberlain ever had.

Lebron James has more regular seasons with a player efficiency rating above 27 than Wilt Chamberlain. He's got just as many mvps and hes an elite defender.

Peak vs peak, Lebron is right up there with Wilt and Jordan. Only difference is that he's a much better ball handler and offensive facilitator, which doesn't show up in the stats sheet.

The advanced stats dont lie, they say lebron james is just as good if not better than jordan and chamberlain.

 

[Iain Fyffe]

Most soccer forums tend to favour Maradona over Pele by the way. It makes sense too. He won serie a with a very mediocre franchise and he took a very mediocre argentina team to the world cup twice. Maradona is a midfielder, he's not supposed to dominate statiscally like the way gretzky did.

And his hands were just as good as Gretzky's...