Helene St. James Is Detroit Still a Desirable Destination?

[Cbdudek]

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 59s Wings offered Dan Boyle three years at $12.5 million ($5M, $5M and $2.5M) but he took two years, $9 million from Rangers.
That's $4.167 MM AAV for three.

Rangers: 2 yrs, $4.5 MM AAV

Net of $3.5 MM more from the Wings, and one extra year.

Rumor has it that Boyle liked the city of New York better than Detroit. He has family there as well. Can't fault someone for taking less money to be closer to family or for personal preference.

Hell, the Wings used to not offer top dollar for free agents and would always expect a discount. So we shouldn't get annoyed when a player chooses to sign for less in a location that is much more favorable for him.

 

[crashman]

I think the injuries to D & Z last year hurt the Wings in free-agency because players around the league forgot how good they really are and how great it is to play with them.

People have short memories and they need to be reminded that Detroit isn't just a bunch of GR kids playing off the chains. The Wings last couple seasons have been marred with major injuries and the team just hasn't seemed very appealing to outsiders.

I think that's a mistake, and some of these players are going to regret their decision of passing on Detroit, but it doesn't make us a better team right now. I think Holland is right to be surprised by the lack of interest in playing here, we're a better team than a lot of the teams theses guys went to.

Lidstrom retiring definitely hurt us on the free-agency front a couple years ago, but there was nothing to prevent that, he was a generational player.

Edit:

Also, I don't think the state of the city itself has anything to do with free-agents not signing here. If anything, the city has gotten better over the years and many of these guys don't spend the off-season in their teams town to begin with. The "city of Detroit sucks" argument is just grasping for straws. I'm not sure we want players that are too concerned about the night-life anyway. The suburbs are great, Northern Michigan is beautiful, that argument is garbage.

 

[ap3x]

Rumor has it that Boyle liked the city of New York better than Detroit. He has family there as well. Can't fault someone for taking less money to be closer to family or for personal preference.

Not to forget his buddy MSL.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Maybe a very small role.

I remember being in highschool when MTV was still somewhat relevant and watching MTV Cribs. The show was primarily focused on musician mansions but also featured a lot of actors and athletes.

No NHL players were featured as far as I can remember but plenty from the NBA, NFL and MLB -- even a NASCAR driver or two.

Whatever sport they played the one thing they had in common was that every athlete was comfortably situated in a sprawling, suburban estate in a gated community. None lived in the city proper even if the city happened to be one considerably nicer than Detroit.

But keep in mind they only featured the richest guys. If you get a 3 year contract for 5 million its alot different then 7 years 40 million. And not everyone likes to stay in the burbs all the time, city life could be a big part if your a younger guy with no family.

 

[Flowah]

But keep in mind they only featured the richest guys. If you get a 3 year contract for 5 million its alot different then 7 years 40 million. And not everyone likes to stay in the burbs all the time, city life could be a big part if your a younger guy with no family.

Ehrhoff and Boyle were over 30. They aren't exactly kids anymore. Same with Iggy and Robidas. I don't think that excuse applies here. And you don't have to be a millionaire to live comfortably in the suburbs. Trust me on that. Even the kids making the league minimum can do it easily.

Hell, a person making 1/3 of league minimum could do it with no problem. Personal experience here.

 

[InjuredChoker]

standing pat would've been better than giving boyle 3 years. my god they are stupid.

i remember me and few others were hoping that kenny wouldn't overreact when he missed on everyone and would've just went with the kids. ugh... and we're god damn posters on hockey forum.

 

[Chance on Chance]

Ehrhoff and Boyle were over 30. They aren't exactly kids anymore. Same with Iggy and Robidas. I don't think that excuse applies here. And you don't have to be a millionaire to live comfortably in the suburbs. Trust me on that. Even the kids making the league minimum can do it easily.

Hell, a person making 1/3 of league minimum could do it with no problem. Personal experience here.

Ya I might be overestimating on cost in the burbs but some people just like living in the city better. And could depend if you live there all year round

 

[InjuredChoker]

one thing could be the way kenny speaks.

this is obviously anecdotal and subjective but i'm rarely impressed when kenny speaks. i'm quite often when i hear tim murray speak, or nill or yzerman and so on.

kenny stutters, tries to make a point but then changes subject before it to another on the fly. and then he does it again. repeats the same stuff, gives long answer that doesn't answer the question.

i dunno, could be one factor. yzerman has done tremendous job selling tampa and getting college players and UFAs to come there. he obviously has his legacy to help him but still.

 

[Frk It]

one thing could be the way kenny speaks.
.

His actions too.

Not only does re-signing Quincey and Cleary piss us off, I think it makes us look worse to free agents too.

 

[dtones520]

one thing could be the way kenny speaks.

this is obviously anecdotal and subjective but i'm rarely impressed when kenny speaks. i'm quite often when i hear tim murray speak, or nill or yzerman and so on.

kenny stutters, tries to make a point but then changes subject before it to another on the fly. and then he does it again. repeats the same stuff, gives long answer that doesn't answer the question.

i dunno, could be one factor. yzerman has done tremendous job selling tampa and getting college players and UFAs to come there. he obviously has his legacy to help him but still.

Again, the way Kenny spoke was the same when he was signing just about every free agent he wanted. It has everything to do with the trajectory of this franchise or the perceived trajectory amongst players and that is that they don't believe we are a legit cup contender anymore.

 

[dtones520]

nope.

How do you figure? They just bolstered their defense, they have one of the leagues better coaches and they have the most dangerous goal scorer in the league on their team. If they can get a legit number 2 center and figure out who,they want in goal they are a real threat in the east.

 

[slapshots1515]

This is hardly a simple topic.

Does Detroit get the boosts from the city that New York or Los Angeles get? Of course not.

Does that mean FAs won't come here? Not necessarily. Aside from a situation like Chris Pronger and Edmonton, I really don't think the city a team plays in has as much of a bearing as people think it does. In any city with a professional sports franchise, somewhere within a 30 minute radius of the downtown area, there's a nice area where all the rich people live. Detroit is no exception in this regard.

Someone else brought up the Tigers and their ability to attract free agents. Prior to 2004 (at least extending back a decade or so minimum), this wan't the case. Dombrowski had to overpay significantly to attract Pudge Rodriguez, and take a huge risk on Magglio Ordonez, who was coming off of microfracture surgery at the time.

After 2006 (basically, after those two signings), the team has had more success on the market. What's the difference, then? After all, this is the same point where the Wings free agent signings started to decline. Both play in the same city, so it can't really be that. We all know the answer: the team stopped sucking. Made a World Series, traded for Cabrera, had a boatload of young talent coming right into their prime.

In summary, this becomes easy: if you win, and if your future looks bright with young talent, and you put up the money, you'll get free agents. The Wings need to prove that the next group of young talent can stop them from falling off the cliff once Datsyuk and Zetterberg retire before people will sign here without us overpaying them.

Side note: I would rather miss on every free agent ever than overpay, with some very rare exceptions. Look at how many teams are hamstrung by poorly thought out free agent contracts.

 

[Winger98]

I'm not sure how this is even debatable right now. we just missed out on every single desirable UFA we went after. If players wanted to come here, we would have signed someone other than Quincey.

 

[bababooeyII]

Detroit is not a desirable destination because the franchise is old and stale and there are no players others want to play with, simple as that. It has very little to do with the city or anything else. If a player likes the team and the roster and has friends on that roster that usually weighs in that team's favor. Players can have homes anywhere, and with millions of dollars they do, so it's ridiculous to say that Detroit is not a desirable destination because of the city, it's not true, it's the franchise and team that's not desirable.

 

[Kiddington]

I'm not sure how this is even debatable right now. we just missed out on every single desirable UFA we went after. If players wanted to come here, we would have signed someone other than Quincey.

Literally the only part of this that even bothers me is the fact that we ended up settling for Quincey. The fact that we missed out on a soft, aging Dan Boyle, and highly overrated guys like Niskanen and Ehrhoff............seriously who cares?

It's the Quincey stuff that kills it for me. We'd have been a far better team just trimming the fat and going with the kids, and instead he takes (in his mind) the ideal path of least resistance and re-ups a hugely unpopular retread because it's the "safe" pick. That, in my mind, is a far bigger offense than missing out on a declining 38-year old defenseman.

 

[TatarTangle]

Mediocre hockey teams aren't very desirable to top free-agents. So, no, Detroit isn't a desirable destination.

 

[DetroitRed]

I just look at the fact that last season Detroit's rookie-of-the-year from the season before was made to start the season in the AHL even though he earned a spot in the NHL, all so Detroit had room for an older guy who could have been let to walk with no offense done or resigned as a coach. And there have been a number of other bad decisions in recent years. I think that is what scares guys away.

You know? Do I want to come to Detroit and work hard all so I can be sent down to AHL Grand Rapids? Or would I rather go to a team where you get what you earn?

 

[Henkka]

You know? Do I want to come to Detroit and work hard all so I can be sent down to AHL Grand Rapids? Or would I rather go to a team where you get what you earn?

Waiver-eligible RFA movements pretty much has nothing to do with UFAs who decide sign or not sign.

 

[Cyborg Yzerberg]

How do you figure? They just bolstered their defense, they have one of the leagues better coaches and they have the most dangerous goal scorer in the league on their team. If they can get a legit number 2 center and figure out who,they want in goal they are a real threat in the east.

Washington's prospect pool isn't very deep, and the team is consistently sputtering in the mud. That, and they're right up against the cap after signing Orpik. This isn't the 2008 Capitals. They don't concern me in the least. I think we have a brighter future than they do.

 

[dtones520]

I just look at the fact that last season Detroit's rookie-of-the-year from the season before was made to start the season in the AHL even though he earned a spot in the NHL, all so Detroit had room for an older guy who could have been let to walk with no offense done or resigned as a coach. And there have been a number of other bad decisions in recent years. I think that is what scares guys away.

You know? Do I want to come to Detroit and work hard all so I can be sent down to AHL Grand Rapids? Or would I rather go to a team where you get what you earn?

What free agent has Detroit sent down to the AHL? And why would a guy like Niskanen, Boyle, Robidas, etc be worried about being sent to the AHL. If anything the fact that Detroit rewards guys who have given much to the organization should be a selling point for free agents, especially guys who are vets.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I just look at the fact that last season Detroit's rookie-of-the-year from the season before was made to start the season in the AHL even though he earned a spot in the NHL, all so Detroit had room for an older guy who could have been let to walk with no offense done or resigned as a coach. And there have been a number of other bad decisions in recent years. I think that is what scares guys away.

You know? Do I want to come to Detroit and work hard all so I can be sent down to AHL Grand Rapids? Or would I rather go to a team where you get what you earn?

Which is fine but we are talking about UFA players. If any thing if that was the trend that should make Detroit all the more appealing. Now yes that is bad for true contender status. But we have not bought out or embarrassed marquee names at the tail ends of their careers. Colo and Tootoo don't have those guys worried. We have not turned around and dumped players to bad markets or pressured them out.

You can have this narrative all day in terms of a competitive team or some of the decisions we dislike. But frankly that is a selling point if you are just drawing a line down the middle and going pro or con. Are the Wings likely to respect my veteran status, will they keep giving me money and do they treat their players in particular veterans with incredible class? Well the answer unfortunately to most of us is a big yes and too often. Can't say it is a country club while avoiding who in particular that caters too. Big money aging vets should like that situation.

I think the point about Datsyuk and Zetterberg staying healthy is a good one. I mean they are oft injured superstars in many eyes. Even if Zetterberg has been playing well through his back until now but Datsyuk isn't logging a lot of full seasons lately. That has to worry guys when looking at a fit in the lineup and also where the coach might slot you. We talk about Alfie wearing down, well he never was signed to carry the kind of burden he was asked to by the end of the year. Also if you're a Babs guy you get to play your role and probably something that is even beyond you, if not well....

 

[icKx]

Washington's prospect pool isn't very deep, and the team is consistently sputtering in the mud. That, and they're right up against the cap after signing Orpik. This isn't the 2008 Capitals. They don't concern me in the least. I think we have a brighter future than they do.

I think it is foolhardy to write off the Caps. The deals were crazy but they still made a net improvement on the back end.

Plus they are now at, what, four coaches in as many years; of course they've sputtered. Trotz was the perfect hire. He'll bring consistency and provide an identity.

 

[Fugu]

I think it is foolhardy to write off the Caps. The deals were crazy but they still made a net improvement on the back end.

Plus they are now at, what, four coaches in as many years; of course they've sputtered. Trotz was the perfect hire. He'll bring consistency and provide an identity.

Yes, Trotz was in the West for far too long to forget that defense wins championships. That has been the biggest issue with the Caps, all sorts of fire power and relying on fire wagon hockey. Maybe they overpaid, but maybe they were determined to get better D than what they already had available, and they didn't want to wait for prospects to develop. Sure, the money is high, but obviously have the cap room for it.

 

[InjuredChoker]

I think it is foolhardy to write off the Caps. The deals were crazy but they still made a net improvement on the back end.

Plus they are now at, what, four coaches in as many years; of course they've sputtered. Trotz was the perfect hire. He'll bring consistency and provide an identity.

they will be better than last year but 2C is big weakness. i don't think they have it.

 

[aar000n]

I always thought of this saying as an urban legend. the truth is before the cap people went to Detroit because they made a lot of money. post salary cap the only person to take less money would be heartless Hossa and the reality is he just wanted a team to carry his lazy ass to a cup.