Helene St. James Is Detroit Still a Desirable Destination?

[bababooeyII]

Good post in the free agency thread-- the Tigers don't have trouble attracting free agents they want.

Do the Lions?

In the NFL any team has the ability to win the Super Bowl (well, except the Lions) and I argue that is what players will always want as much as, if not more than, money. The chance to win and be successful.

 

[golffuul]

Shanny left after his first year under Babs.




No, not really.



At no one in particular, we can dissect these one by one all you want, but in aggregate, Detroit is offering more money and term and getting turned down by everyone they target.

I guess Holland is going to have to talk to some player agents and get some feedback.

I can tell you that Allan Walsh is one of the agents that doesn't like the Redwings. And it seems that Pat Brisson might be another. All of his clients seem to be not even acknowledging Detroit as a destination. Those two alone account for a very large number of players.

 

[Hckytwn]

Add in the fact that Fil and Brunner took basically the same money to play elsewhere.

 

[Roy S]

Missing out on Boyle and Robidas (assuming its accurate that they actually targeted him) will probably end up being very lucky. I can't believe Boyle was offered 3 years by Holland.

Missing out on Ehrhoff hurts the most b/c it was just a 1 year deal. But, they have Crosby and Malkin and he saw what one great year from Niskanen is landing him contract-wise. With Z and D being injury threats, there's not much you can do there.

I'm not sure what happened with Stalman or Niskanen and I would have liked both- but they have only been second pairing defenseman. Those aren't gigantic misses like Suter was.

 

[SoupNazi]

Add in the fact that Fil and Brunner took basically the same money to play elsewhere.

Filppula was pretty well known for not being a fan of our coach.

 

[Bench]

Add in the fact that Fil and Brunner took basically the same money to play elsewhere.

Filppula counts as guy who wanted to leave. I'll give you that one.

Not Brunner. Brunner would have come back if not for being pinched of the top 6. Brunner then tested the market and had to take less than he wanted in New Jersey, hoping he'd get more ice time and could pad his stats. Didn't work out for him, either.

 

[FlashyG]

Add in the fact that Fil and Brunner took basically the same money to play elsewhere.

Brunner thought he could get more on the open market and lost his spot with us when we upgraded to Alfredsson.

Then after nobody offered him a deal for the longest time he tucked his tail between his legs and took an offer for less money from NJ than he initially rejected from Detroit.

I'm sure if he had it to do over again he'd have accepted the Wings initial offer.

 

[Fugu]

I can tell you that Allan Walsh is one of the agents that doesn't like the Redwings. And it seems that Pat Brisson might be another. All of his clients seem to be not even acknowledging Detroit as a destination. Those two alone account for a very large number of players.

Isn't this a bit of a problem, then?

 

[Flowah]

Yes, and how does George know that? Nothing against Malik, have talked to him many times over the years, but I don't think he's that "in" with the players.

You would have to be really really really in with these players to hear an ounce of dissent from the ranks. All the players are far too mature and professional to be mouthing off to anyone about "We don't like the coach" or "X player sucks".

I don't believe any of that garbage one way or the other until I see something substantiated.

Boyle is very good friends with Martin St. Louis...that probably factored in greatly when he made his decision.

They also just made it to the Cup finals.

I didn't think the Rangers were all that strong a team to make it there. They got manhandled by the Kings for one. And it's not like Boyle puts them over the edge. Especially if they're losing Stralman. Adding Boyle but losing Stralman? An overall loss.

Add in the fact that Fil and Brunner took basically the same money to play elsewhere.

Fil? Yes. But one player isn't the team. And the one player we know for sure had problems wit the coach ended up leaving. Everyone else seems to be staying. So either the coach hate isn't that strong or it's a very player by player basis and not team wide.

As for Brunner, he screwed himself. He thought he could get more, he thought wrong. Eventually he had to settle when other teams had all moved on because he sat on his thumbs thinking he deserved more money.

 

[wingfan]

Filppula was pretty well known for not being a fan of our coach.

Brunner also thought he could get more money elsewhere and wanted a gauranteed top six role. the offer came off the table when free agency opened and we signed Alfie. Both of these guys valued themselves higher than management/coaching staff did in terms of money and role, it was a mutual decision regarding both players, lets not twist it into something it wasn't...

 

[Bench]

I didn't think the Rangers were all that strong a team to make it there. They got manhandled by the Kings for one. And it's not like Boyle puts them over the edge. Especially if they're losing Stralman. Adding Boyle but losing Stralman? An overall loss.

There's an allure playing for a team in Manhattan backed by Lundqvist. I'd be tempted. Plus his buddy St. Louis. That's huge. I try to put myself in these players' shoes. I honestly don't blame Boyle one bit.

I'm baffled Ehrhoff wouldn't want more than 1 year. Sure he already has his buyout money, but he could have easily got 5 years. That one I don't get. Guess he really believes in Crosby.

 

[Fugu]

Good stuff from Khan:

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 27m Also, Wings very surprised Ehrhoff took one year at $4 million from Pitt. when his camp was telling them he wanted five years.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 27m
Ehrhoff obviously wanted to play in Pittsburgh because Wings never given opportunity to top that offer, which they would have.

On Niskanen:

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 32m Wings felt they made competitive offer for Niskanen and one team source said they would have given 7 years at $42 million.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 33m
Also, Wings were told as late as this weekend they were on Niskanen's "short list" but informed early today they were out.




Are the agents playing games here? Using the Wings interest to drive up the competition, but knowing their client isn't interested in Detroit??

 

[Reality Check]

The Tigers don't have a salary cap. Also how many great free agents to they acquire anyway?

If the Tigers didn't have a salary cap, they don't trade away Fister. Much less, will let Scherzer walk this winter.

Josh Smith was in the top five available free agents last summer and the Pistons signed him. Take a wild guess how that worked out..

 

[FlashyG]

I didn't think the Rangers were all that strong a team to make it there. They got manhandled by the Kings for one. And it's not like Boyle puts them over the edge. Especially if they're losing Stralman. Adding Boyle but losing Stralman? An overall loss.

I don't either, but I bet Boyle doesn't see himself for Stralman as a downgrade.

I'm sure he thinks a team that made the finals that also has one of his best friends is an ideal place to finish his career.

 

[Bench]

Are the agents playing games here?

Doesn't sound like it? What games?

Wings were told early they were out on both and Ehrhoff didn't drive his price up in the slightest.

Compare to when Jagr said he was split between Detroit and Pittsburgh, would decide that night... then signed with Philly.

 

[Vladdy84]

Good stuff from Khan:

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 27m Also, Wings very surprised Ehrhoff took one year at $4 million from Pitt. when his camp was telling them he wanted five years.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 27m
Ehrhoff obviously wanted to play in Pittsburgh because Wings never given opportunity to top that offer, which they would have.

On Niskanen:

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 32m Wings felt they made competitive offer for Niskanen and one team source said they would have given 7 years at $42 million.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 33m
Also, Wings were told as late as this weekend they were on Niskanen's "short list" but informed early today they were out.




Are the agents playing games here?

Of course. Agents tell other teams that the Wings are very interested. Other teams know how desperate the Wings are for D etc...

 

[bababooeyII]

I can tell you that Allan Walsh is one of the agents that doesn't like the Redwings. And it seems that Pat Brisson might be another. All of his clients seem to be not even acknowledging Detroit as a destination. Those two alone account for a very large number of players.

How do you know this?

 

[WingedWheel1987]

FA's probably look at Z/D and wonder, who replaces them? They probably don't think those replacements exist, and the Wings are on a downward trajectory. Nobody wants to sign a multi year deal with an organization that they think is only going to get worse.

 

[FlashyG]

Good stuff from Khan:

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 27m Also, Wings very surprised Ehrhoff took one year at $4 million from Pitt. when his camp was telling them he wanted five years.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 27m
Ehrhoff obviously wanted to play in Pittsburgh because Wings never given opportunity to top that offer, which they would have.

On Niskanen:

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 32m Wings felt they made competitive offer for Niskanen and one team source said they would have given 7 years at $42 million.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 33m
Also, Wings were told as late as this weekend they were on Niskanen's "short list" but informed early today they were out.




Are the agents playing games here?

In Niskanen's interview on TSN he basically said he picked Washington a while ago because of his familiarity with the defence coach, and it was just a matter of getting the right deal.

I think his agent used other teams interest to drive his price up to the most money he could possibly get from them before Niskanen signed.

Even if other teams were offering more I bet it was all about getting the most out of Washington.

 

[bababooeyII]

Good stuff from Khan:

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 27m Also, Wings very surprised Ehrhoff took one year at $4 million from Pitt. when his camp was telling them he wanted five years.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 27m
Ehrhoff obviously wanted to play in Pittsburgh because Wings never given opportunity to top that offer, which they would have.

On Niskanen:

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 32m Wings felt they made competitive offer for Niskanen and one team source said they would have given 7 years at $42 million.

Ansar Khan ‏@AnsarKhanMLive 33m
Also, Wings were told as late as this weekend they were on Niskanen's "short list" but informed early today they were out.




Are the agents playing games here?

Or maybe that was their cost to play in Detroit

 

[Fugu]

Doesn't sound like it? What games?

Wings were told early they were out on both and Ehrhoff didn't drive his price up in the slightest.

Compare to when Jagr said he was split between Detroit and Pittsburgh, would decide that night... then signed with Philly.

Telling the Wings the player wants a five year deal, then getting a one year deal worked out and not chance for the Wings to counter? I mean, why tell Holland he has to come up with a five year offer if that's not what the player wants at all.


With Niskanen, saying D is on the short list, then on UFA day, telling them they're not even on the long list.

 

[golffuul]

How do you know this?

Walsh went after the Redwings, during the lockout and during the Hudler procedings It was all over his twitter.

Brisson, by looking at his stable of players, seems like an educated guess.

 

[bababooeyII]

FA's probably look at Z/D and wonder, who replaces them? They probably don't think those replacements exist, and the Wings are on a downward trajectory. Nobody wants to sign a multi year deal with an organization that they think is only going to get worse.

That and the fact that the coach will most likely be bolting next year. An organization at the crossroads for sure

 

[Actual Thought*]

If im not misstaken, Detroit is a violent town with a lot of foreigners. A little bit like Malmo.

Maybe thats why.

Ummm....Most of the players ARE foreigners.

 

[Shaman464]

FA's probably look at Z/D and wonder, who replaces them? They probably don't think those replacements exist, and the Wings are on a downward trajectory. Nobody wants to sign a multi year deal with an organization that they think is only going to get worse.

Just like Lidstrom, Holland is on borrowed time with his top centers.