Interesting piece about Terry Ryan

[Blind Gardien]

I remember a late season game where Ryan got put on a line with Brunet and Recchi and he instantly dropped the gloves with somone, pretty sure it was the first shift. His brain was the goon, the Habs didn't have to do anything to try to make that happen.

Well, I think his (scant as it was) utilization and experience probably led him to believe that was what they wanted from him and the only way to get noticed. That's how I used to think of it, anyway.

That said, it was also the era of the "true powerforward" when guys like Nolan, Shanahan, Tkachuk, etc would be scoring line stars with 200 PIMs. So it didn't have to be mutually exclusive that you'd be overaggressive and crazy while still being a scorer. It was pretty much what they drafted him for.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I remember a late season game where Ryan got put on a line with Brunet and Recchi and he instantly dropped the gloves with somone, pretty sure it was the first shift. His brain was the goon, the Habs didn't have to do anything to try to make that happen.

Cause when you've had it beaten into that to make the team you need to fight that's easy to switch off of course

 

[FloJack]

Cause when you've had it beaten into that to make the team you need to fight that's easy to switch off of course

I think getting an opportunity to play with two of the better offensive players on the team before you've proven much might be enough to make you think you should focus on another facet of the game for the time being. It wasn’t a defending a teammate moment either.

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I think getting an opportunity to play with two of the better offensive players on the team before you've proven much might be enough to make you think you should focus on another facet of the game for the time being. It wasn’t a defending a teammate moment either.

It comes back to head games and finding a balance, if you tell me 99% of the time I need to fight to stay in the league that 1% chance to do something else is tough to switch off

 

[FloJack]

It comes back to head games and finding a balance, if you tell me 99% of the time I need to fight to stay in the league that 1% chance to do something else is tough to switch off

I get what you're saying but I also think Ryan was doomed from the start based on IQ.

 

[Habs4ever]

Hey there I think you got whole thing wrong from Detroit..

I wonder about the treatment of younger players sometimes.

Let's say you have a skilled player in the minors who clearly excels in the offensive aspects of the game but isn't great defensively (like a lot of young forwards), and someone on your NHL team get injured. If you call this kid up and play him on the 4th line, and boost a 4th liner (Moen, as an example) to the 1st line, you're not helping this player at all.

He has no way to show off his skills, and the team loses faith in him, and he ends up bouncing around between the minors and the 4th line of the NHL, all because you never bothered to play him in his optimal position.

I blame the shortsightedness of coaches. Coaches in MTL last 2 years, they're not interested in trying young guys out on the 1st line, they just want the best chance for that one game, and they would prefer to play the dependable 4th liner than to try a new kid.

A guy like Babcock knows his job is safe, and he'll give his young kids a chance, and because of that they have players like Tatar and Nyquist who exceed expectations while we have young guys spoiling away being misused because Therrien doesn't give a **** about what's going to happen in 3 years.

Babcock did not play young players, just go and ask in Detroit forum; their young guys were rotting in AHL and only reson they got sniff at NHL because Detroit has got very big long term injuries to top players; and somebody had to be called up to fill the roster..

Detroit just lost their A+ rated prospect to nashvill in Legvand trade; just go and read how they managed to lose their top propect and what they think about their team management in that respect..

 

[Spearmint Rhino]

I get what you're saying but I also think Ryan was doomed from the start based on IQ.

That would definitely play a part and that's something now with new player development that can be identified as a weakness and to be treated differently, kinda like how Ryan White has evolved last couple of years where he realizes being a lunatic 24/7 isn't what the coach means when he wants you to be an energy guy that stands up for his teammates

 

[beowulf]

None of those are worse than Brett Lindros, who in his draft year had 10 points in 15 games with 94 PIM. That's all he had and that was good enough for Mike Milbury to draft him 9th overall. Why? Because he was Eric's little brother, he was 6'4" and weighed 245lbs.

To put into perspective, Steve Nimigon had 13 points in 39 games with the Niagara Falls Thunder in his draft year. 6'3" winger over 200lbs. His draft position? 265th overall in 1994.

Seriously, Brett Lindros might be one of the worst top 10 draft picks in hockey history. Not because he didn't become a star in the NHL, but because he was only selected for who his brother was. Even the lesser Gretzky's put up better numbers and were not drafted in the Top 10.

While I agree the Lindros pick at 10th overall was terrible, you are not mentioning that he also played 44 games, as a 17 year old, with men that year as part of the Canadian National program when it still existed. A national team that had the likes of Brian Savage, Paul Karyia, Chris Kontos, Peter Nedved, etc. etc. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0004901994.html

 

[yianik]

I hoped for the best and rooted for Ryan to make it of course, but I was afraid of picking him. By this time I had seen so many 1st rounders of ours bust or be on the ropes, with the common denominator being skating issues. Sure there were guys who could skate who didn't make it, but skating was a big issue for many of our 1st round picks back then. What I had read about Ryan was he needed to work on his skating and so I didn't want him.

Nice advice by his stupid Agent. Like an NHL team is going to let some kid stare them down and set a precedent like that.

 

[OldCraig71]

The 4 years following the 93 cup was my darkest time as a Habs fan, what a mess we turned into, the Roy trade along with Leclair being shipped out, crappy draft picks, it set us back badly. Ryan is a sad story like so many kids that are told they are the best thing since sliced bread from the time they are 14 years old and sadly never make it. Having a pro career in the NHL takes talent and lots of good luck, favor from coaches and ability to stay healthy. 700 plus guys play in the league every year and the percentage that has an nhl career longer than 2 years is much smaller than most would think, it ain't easy guys. Feel bad for Ryan but he is one of thousands that just didn't have it all work out.

 

[Price is Wright]

While I agree the Lindros pick at 10th overall was terrible, you are not mentioning that he also played 44 games, as a 17 year old, with men that year as part of the Canadian National program when it still existed. A national team that had the likes of Brian Savage, Paul Karyia, Chris Kontos, Peter Nedved, etc. etc. http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues/seasons/teams/0004901994.html

At the time and today I could care less. He got that spot because of who his brother was. He was never good enough. Not a single self respecting Islanders fan liked the draft pick and when he collected his 50th concussion nobody was surprised. I ended my season tickets with the Islanders after that pick.

 

[Monctonscout]

I followed Ryan's career quite a bit and was happy we drafted him but no question the Habs ruined him like they have with many of their picks in the 90s with poor player development starting with trying to put square pegs in round holes, Pacs is probably the only one that stood up and said no he'd rather play top minutes in the minors than 4th line in the NHL. Ryan was a 50 G scorer in junior and Habs try to make him into a goon cause the old boys club wouldn't play rookies in prominent roles until they earned it

That's where having guys like Lapointe and Brisebois handling players' development and communicating with them regularly helps. Back then nobody told the kids what to do or what was expected. Plus a ton of them were rushed up to the NHL at 19-20-21. Sometimes a kid isn't a bad pick but you have to take the 3-5 years to develop them, if you rush kids they just learn how to do less and try to survive.

 

[Scintillating10]

Another factor was Ryan came up in the Ronald Corey era. When players were traded off at slightest hint of tarnishing the CH. Traded Carbo over finger on the golf course incident, Chelios for being naked at a barbeque. Montreal wouldn't put up with the antics Ryan was acting out. Then he got in Therrein's doghouse down in the AHL. Houle wasn't bright enough to trade him once he seen Ryan was troubled.

Why you conduct draft pre-interviews. Which Montreal never did. Have a doctor on the interviewing panel looking for these things like low IQ and mental issues

 

[DAChampion]

I get what you're saying but I also think Ryan was doomed from the start based on IQ.

How do you know Ryan's IQ?

 

[Habs]

Alexandre Daigle is the biggest bust imo

..and why is that? He had a few good years.... plenty of worse first round picks.

 

[beowulf]

At the time and today I could care less. He got that spot because of who his brother was. He was never good enough. Not a single self respecting Islanders fan liked the draft pick and when he collected his 50th concussion nobody was surprised. I ended my season tickets with the Islanders after that pick.

Again I don't disagree just saying if you are going to present it at least include everything. IMO he should not have been more than a 4-5th round pick at best.

 

[Scintillating10]

How do you know Ryan's IQ?

Oh Jesus, not hard to tell. Chance to be a star with the Canadiens and threw it away over Pejorative Sluriness(read his book you will know then). He was on the cuff of being a top Hab, but yet all he wanted to do was get loaded and naked with a bunch of prostitutes. Bit of Bryan Fogarty and touch of Theo Fleury.

Wasn't just pissing in the trainer's apple juice or hooker's nailing him with bananas. It was constant like that with him. From showing up to practice loaded to going to a movie dressed only in a cowboy hat and his underwear.

By time he set out training camp, trying to force Habs to trade him, no team would touch him. He wasn't even bright enough to know it.

 

[V-2 Schneider]

What none mention is how slow a skater Ryan was.He was a WHL star, but had feet of stone.It's up to guys like Ryan to work on their flaws and if they've plateaued because they aren't as talented, hungry and determined as others, it's their own fault.

 

[yoyo999]

I always liked this blog by former goalie Mike Mckenna about the differences between the NHL, AHL and ECHL.

http://ingoalmag.com/general/how-do-the-nhl-ahl-and-echl-differ-a-goalies-perspective/

edit: n/m, he still plays

 

[Blind Gardien]

Some kids just don't know any better. Some probably can't be "rehabilitated"... but some can (see Hollywood Hainsey)... eventually. The desire to change still has to come from within and with maturity, but teams could provide some tools and structure along the way which might facilitate things.

Anyway, most teams at least usually make more of an effort in that sense now than they used to. More evaluation and emphasis on character at the draft table, but also a little more off-ice management and monitoring and mentoring along the way as well. Still maybe not as much as they could do considering the magnitude of investment they're making with even the most mundane ELC, but things have come a long way in the last couple of decades.

And there's a little more attention paid at the lower levels too. Not everywhere maybe, but I don't think the typical junior team usually gets away with quite as much as before. Still lots that doesn't get reported. But it's not quite the complete veil of secrecy that it used to be, and the leagues are at least a little more conscious of the ramifications if antics get out too much in the public view, and I think tend to supervise their players at least a little more carefully than they used to, in most cases.

 

[beowulf]

Some kids just don't know any better. Some probably can't be "rehabilitated"... but some can (see Hollywood Hainsey)... eventually. The desire to change still has to come from within and with maturity, but teams could provide some tools and structure along the way which might facilitate things.

Anyway, most teams at least usually make more of an effort in that sense now than they used to. More evaluation and emphasis on character at the draft table, but also a little more off-ice management and monitoring and mentoring along the way as well. Still maybe not as much as they could do considering the magnitude of investment they're making with even the most mundane ELC, but things have come a long way in the last couple of decades.

And there's a little more attention paid at the lower levels too. Not everywhere maybe, but I don't think the typical junior team usually gets away with quite as much as before. Still lots that doesn't get reported. But it's not quite the complete veil of secrecy that it used to be, and the leagues are at least a little more conscious of the ramifications if antics get out too much in the public view, and I think tend to supervise their players at least a little more carefully than they used to, in most cases.

I think this has to also do with the world of social media we now live in and that every cellphone is a potential camera/video recorder. You screw up in public, it will likely be caught. Even in private you have to be careful.

 

[Cyclones Rock]

I always liked this blog by former goalie Mike Mckenna about the differences between the NHL, AHL and ECHL.

http://ingoalmag.com/general/how-do-the-nhl-ahl-and-echl-differ-a-goalies-perspective/

edit: n/m, he still plays

Great link. Thanks.

The article points out, contrary to wide held belief, that the ECHL is a very good league. Most drafted players have at least one or two outstanding skills or traits(skating, shooting, quickness, etc.) but just lack the total package needed to move up the hockey food chain.

Former Canadien 2nd round draft pick Cory Urquhart had a wrister which most NHLers would envy. His skating was decent enough to get him to the NHL level, but his laxness defensively and his below average passing ability (vision/hockey IQ) prevented him from ever getting above the AHL level. But, he was still a very talented player and fun to watch. In the former run-and-gun era of the NHL in the 70s, 80s and early 90s, I think a player like Urquhart had a place on an NHL roster.

Many undersized players (Desharnais-size AND SMALLER) populate ECHL rosters. Plenty of skill and savvy, but lacking the all important size portion of the equation. Many future NHL goaltenders (Quick, Reimer, Thomas, the writer of the linked article and more) spent significant time in the ECHL as well.

Certainly, there are slugs galore in the ECHL, but there is enough talent overall which make the ECHL game much more highly-skilled than commonly perceived. But, Terry Ryan, by the time he fell to the ECHL, wasn't even a standout at that level.

 

[Scintillating10]

What none mention is how slow a skater Ryan was.He was a WHL star, but had feet of stone.It's up to guys like Ryan to work on their flaws and if they've plateaued because they aren't as talented, hungry and determined as others, it's their own fault.

No worse than a DD at 18. At 22, Ryan's life style and injuries were taking their toll on his body. By 24 Ryan's body was wrecked by injuries though. He said playing as 4th liner on Dallas' farm club, he had to freeze his ankle before ever game. His mobility was limited by then also. So, he never had second chance to turn his career around. At 22 his NHL hopes were done and by 24 his pro hopes were done

 

[Scintillating10]

Just finishing last two chapters of Ryan's book. Couple of the stories. He said he use to carry a few 1000 bills in his wallet. Never spent them, just for going into bars in different cities, pick out best looking ladies and buy them a drink. Let them get a glance in his wallet so they think he is rich. Said it worked many times to get him laid. One time he was in Quebec City, try this, worked good, took the lady back to his room. He was loaded, passed out when he came to she was gone and his 1000 dollar bills also. Another time he picked up this chick at a bar, he was drunk. They made out, but then she said it was wrong time of month. So, she gave him oral sex, next day he told his teammates and they were like...what? That was a guy in drag. Ryan was so drunk he didn't know the difference.

The last year he played in ECHL, he had chipped a tooth playing ball hockey before camp. He never had no money to get it fixed. He knew the team had insurance on their players in case of injury during camp. He was drunk and came up with this idea to knock the tooth out with a hammer and say it happened in practice. He couldn't knock it out at first, so he switched to a maul. But he hit himself too hard it knocked out 4 front teeth. So, he taped his teeth to himself and when to practice, skated behind the net got a teammate to shoot puck in his vicinity. He went down on ice and tossed the teeth on the ice and cut his lip. Making it look like he got hit with a puck. So he could get his teeth fixed free.

 

[Redux91]

Just finishing last two chapters of Ryan's book. Couple of the stories. He said he use to carry a few 1000 bills in his wallet. Never spent them, just for going into bars in different cities, pick out best looking ladies and buy them a drink. Let them get a glance in his wallet so they think he is rich. Said it worked many times to get him laid. One time he was in Quebec City, try this, worked good, took the lady back to his room. He was loaded, passed out when he came to she was gone and his 1000 dollar bills also. Another time he picked up this chick at a bar, he was drunk. They made out, but then she said it was wrong time of month. So, she gave him oral sex, next day he told his teammates and they were like...what? That was a guy in drag. Ryan was so drunk he didn't know the difference.

The last year he played in ECHL, he had chipped a tooth playing ball hockey before camp. He never had no money to get it fixed. He knew the team had insurance on their players in case of injury during camp. He was drunk and came up with this idea to knock the tooth out with a hammer and say it happened in practice. He couldn't knock it out at first, so he switched to a maul. But he hit himself too hard it knocked out 4 front teeth. So, he taped his teeth to himself and when to practice, skated behind the net got a teammate to shoot puck in his vicinity. He went down on ice and tossed the teeth on the ice and cut his lip. Making it look like he got hit with a puck. So he could get his teeth fixed free.

lol man

i wish every player wrote a book lol