Instances of terrible luck

[lidstromiscool]

Grigorenko would've been a star. He was a similar talent to Kovalchuk before the accident. Adding him to go along with Datsyuk and Z could've easily added a few cups to Detroit.

He could've been the perfect lineman for Datsyuk also. He was a thick player who could skate like the wind and had unreal hands/hockey IQ. He was also a shoot first Russian. Man, I would've loved to see them play together now that I think about it.

 

[Henkka]

Grigorenko would've been a star. He was a similar talent to Kovalchuk before the accident. Adding him to go along with Datsyuk and Z could've easily added a few cups to Detroit.

He could've been the perfect lineman for Datsyuk also. He was a thick player who could skate like the wind and had unreal hands/hockey IQ. He was also a shoot first Russian. Man, I would've loved to see them play together now that I think about it.

He was definitely not a Kovalchuk level of player. He was scoring more of net-front, when Kovalchuk was sniping bombs from the points. I remember he was mostly compared to Marty Lapointe. Strong scoring grinder, who had more skill, but weaker shot. He went to score from near areas with his aggressiveness.

I think as a prime he would have been a player what Dan Cleary was in his prime. Complimentary piece for the superstars. Another Franzen at maximum. Most probably, Grigorenko on the roster, calling Cleary to try-out never happens and it doesn't make any difference at 2006-09 peak. Then caphits will go out of hands anyways after 2009.

 

[bedtime20]

Svechnikov's knee injury

 

[lidstromiscool]

He was definitely not a Kovalchuk level of player. He was scoring more of net-front, when Kovalchuk was sniping bombs from the points. I remember he was mostly compared to Marty Lapointe. Strong scoring grinder, who had more skill, but weaker shot. He went to score from near areas with his aggressiveness.

I think as a prime he would have been a player what Dan Cleary was in his prime. Complimentary piece for the superstars. Another Franzen at maximum. Most probably, Grigorenko on the roster, calling Cleary to try-out never happens and it doesn't make any difference at 2006-09 peak. Then caphits will go out of hands anyways after 2009.

You're selling him extremely short in my opinion. I have never seen him compared to Lapointe except for their body types. He actually played on a line with Datsyuk and Kovalchuk in the 03 World Championships. Although a little older, he was in the same conversation of players as Kovalchuk, Malkin, Ovechkin and Semin. He was supposed to help lead the next generation of Russian players. At no time was he ever considered a grinder, he was known as a stocky kid with great speed/hands. He led Togliatti in goals/points as a 20 year old! We will obviously never know what he would've become without the accident, but Cleary (even in his prime) would've been a disappointment. His stats were superior to Semin who was a PPG winger in his prime. A 30 goal/80 point winger on the stacked Detroit teams from 2004-2010 wouldn't have been out of reach.

 

[Oddbob]

League being wrong is the worst part of that luck. Now we weren't ready to make the case Vancouver did and just took their answer, but that stunk for sure.

A lot of teams bought Jagr's bluff. Also there are very few people that were higher on Primeau than Jimmy D. Keep in mind Jimmy D and Bowman were ready to move on from Yzerman and build around a one two punch of Fedorov and Primeau.

Wanting to move on from Yzerman, lessens some of Scotty's view in my point. Odd knowing Yzerman already that he didn't think he would buy in, as that was long past Yzerman's only care about offense mentality. We would have none of those 3 Cups without Stevey in my estimation. Gross trying to imagine if we had kept Primeau as he was a #2 center at best.

 

[Retire91]

It is still incomprehensible to me when I hear about thoughts they were going to move Yzerman. Like the situation with Yashin too. I understand Bowman advocated the 2 way game but Yzerman was also just coming off a 137 point season lol. The only reason he didn't win the Art Ross is because Lemuix and Gretzky were still cranking out 160 point seasons. I get criticism on offense only players but when that player is Art Ross material it also seems kinda crazy. It would be interesting to know who talked Bowman camp off the ledge. I have to believe someone like Illich or Delivano stepped in and were like you are not EVER trading Yzerman.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

It is still incomprehensible to me when I hear about thoughts they were going to move Yzerman. Like the situation with Yashin too. I understand Bowman advocated the 2 way game but Yzerman was also just coming off a 137 point season lol. The only reason he didn't win the Art Ross is because Lemuix and Gretzky were still cranking out 160 point seasons. I get criticism on offense only players but when that player is Art Ross material it also seems kinda crazy. It would be interesting to know who talked Bowman camp off the ledge. I have to believe someone like Illich or Delivano stepped in and were like you are not EVER trading Yzerman.

It isn't hard to figure out. Devellano and Bowman were ready to move him. Starting in 94 we had a triumverent setup with three co-gms technically with the young Ken Holland being promoted into the title. He voted against the Yzerman trade is his first gold star, but was outgunned in that system, Ilitch had reservations and went back on it and then progressively shifted more and more personnel power to Holland.

I know people won't like that and Holland defers to legends in the game when recounting some of these trades in stories where he has always deferred a ton of credit to Bowman and Jimmy D during that time period. But he had a voice in that room and his ultimate outright promotion can be linked back to where he was on these issues. He wasn't promoted to be put on top because he was wrong a lot. He was against trading Yzerman, for trading for Shanny and dumping Primeau and Coffey , endorsed getting Larionov. Some of these moves had Bowman or Jimmy D as big factors but mostly the middle 90s is the run into him continuously having the right input and seizing outright control with total trust from Mike Ilitch. I know people want to not like him now and like to talk about the teams he inherited, but he scouted and drafted most of the talent and played a bigger role than most seem to want to admit.

 

[19 for president]

The accidents/non Hockey injuries to Grigs, Konstantinov, Wallin, Fisher, and Kozzie definitely had a large impact on the organization.

 

[RedMenace]

I was born.

The organization has been struggling with that from the start.

 

[MBH]

Grigorenko would've been a star. He was a similar talent to Kovalchuk before the accident. Adding him to go along with Datsyuk and Z could've easily added a few cups to Detroit.

He could've been the perfect lineman for Datsyuk also. He was a thick player who could skate like the wind and had unreal hands/hockey IQ. He was also a shoot first Russian. Man, I would've loved to see them play together now that I think about it.

Not sure about easily added a few cups - as that's never easy.
But he was every bit as good as Zetterberg.
After the gift of Datsyuk, we had two straight years where the "best player not playing in the NHL" was a Red Wing prospect. Zetterberg. Grigorenko.
I think he was a lot like Radulov. Strong as a bear. But a more direct game.

 

[Retire91]

It isn't hard to figure out. Devellano and Bowman were ready to move him. Starting in 94 we had a triumverent setup with three co-gms technically with the young Ken Holland being promoted into the title. He voted against tge Yzerman trade is his first gold star, but was outgunned in that system, Ilitch had reservations and went back on it and then progressively shifted more and more personnel power to Holland.

I know people won't like that and Holland defers to legends in the game when recounting some of these trades in stories where he has always deferred a ton of credit to Bowman and Jimmy D during that time period. But he had a voice in that room and his ultimate outright promotion can be linked back to where he was on these issues. He wasn't promoted to be put on top because he was wrong a lot. He was against trading Yzerman, for trading for Shanny and dumping Primeau and Coffey , endorsed getting Larionov. Some of these moves had Bowman or Jimmy D as big factors but mostly the middle 90s is the run into him continuously having the right input and seizing outright control with total trust from Mike Ilitch. I know people want to not like him now and like to talk about the teams he inherited, but he scouted and drafted most of the talent and played a bigger role than most seem to want to admit.

I think Holland was masterful during that run. He did a great job managing that team and what was needed to make it a giant.

 

[Peter Tosh]

I forgot one thing, that is all of Kronwall’s injuries. Especially in his early career. Lots of games lost there

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Not sure about easily added a few cups - as that's never easy.
But he was every bit as good as Zetterberg.
After the gift of Datsyuk, we had two straight years where the "best player not playing in the NHL" was a Red Wing prospect. Zetterberg. Grigorenko.
I think he was a lot like Radulov. Strong as a bear. But a more direct game.

Grigorenko was thought to be the best of the three when they were still in prospect status.

A lot of the subtleties of Datsyuk's game weren't totally understood either. Also, the fact he could hold onto the puck and do all of his clever moves wasn't really a total belief, people started to understand he was good, but you thought he might not do some of what he did to NHL guys and he sure did. I would say at that point there was a belief that:

Grigorenko
Zetterberg
Datsyuk

But all of them had substantial hype, with both Grigorenko and Zetterberg wearing crowns as the best player not playing in the NHL with some publicity. Grigorenko had a fairly good career in the KHL, I just never thought his skating returned to the same levels after the accident which is understandable. But he was an incredible talent, it was very much a big three situation in the hype machine back then and my opinion was at the time a lot of folks believed he was going to be the best of the three.

 

[MBH]

Grigorenko was thought to be the best of the three when they were still in prospect status.

A lot of the subtleties of Datsyuk's game weren't totally understood either. Also, the fact he could hold onto the puck and do all of his clever moves wasn't really a total belief, people started to understand he was good, but you thought he might not do some of what he did to NHL guys and he sure did. I would say at that point there was a belief that:

Grigorenko
Zetterberg
Datsyuk

But all of them had substantial hype, with both Grigorenko and Zetterberg wearing crowns as the best player not playing in the NHL with some publicity. Grigorenko had a fairly good career in the KHL, I just never thought his skating returned to the same levels after the accident which is understandable. But he was an incredible talent, it was very much a big three situation in the hype machine back then and my opinion was at the time a lot of folks believed he was going to be the best of the three.

The butchered his first surgery in Russia to repair his shattered leg - and was never able to train the way he needed to because of the pain.

 

[MBH]

I forgot one thing, that is all of Kronwall’s injuries. Especially in his early career. Lots of games lost there

Despite all the injuries, I don't think a lot of people feel they robbed him of his ability.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

Despite all the injuries, I don't think a lot of people feel they robbed him of his ability.

It didn't rob Kronwall of his ability to play, but probably cost him 2 solid seasons early in his career, as well as possibly shortening his career. Were it not for the injuries he sustained in 2003-04 and 2005-06 you're looking at Kronwall topping 1000gp for his career and possibly better health and less limitations on his play towards the end of his career.