Impact of Worcester AHL Team Moving on Community

[member 157595]

I've been to Worcester there isn't much around the arena to impact. In the 90s there was a mall but that's all gone now.

A lot is gone...it's a pretty depressed city in places.

could the QMJHL expand there?

be great to get a couple former New England AHL cities in the QMJHL

There is absolutely no market for the Q in Worcester that I know of.

Here is what I think Worcester gets a Bruin ECHL team in two seasons. The owner of the Providence Bruins also owns the New England Sports Center in Marlborough, MA, which is a 10 minute ride to Worcester. He knows buying a cheap ECHL team and sticking it in Worcester will be a winner. Just the Bruins name alone will get more people in the seats than an AHL team.

As for Manchester, I think we will get an AHL team in two years after the attendance numbers drop next year for ECHL hockey. The fans in Manchester aren't stupid they will notice the drop in play. Are odds will improve if the NHL adds an expansion team in Quebec City which is a five hour ride to Manchester. There has to be an owner out there that will want a sure bet winner, which Manchester is.

Agreed on both points. An ECHL Bruins affiliate in Worcester could work, while Manchester is a slam-dunk AHL market that shouldn't have lost the Monarchs in the first place (though I do understand where the Kings were coming from.)

 

[TKFAN]

Man you are spoiled... and deluded. You're pinning your hopes on Quebec getting an NHL team so Manchester gets an AHL one? So what happens if that falls through or Quebec chooses somewhere in Canada to put their team? What AHL team do you think is available to move to Manchester? You want the Devils affiliate?

I didn't mention the name of any AHL team coming to Manchester, someone did mention Quebec though. I would have been happy with the Panthers AHL team, but never ever the Devils.

 

[TKFAN]

First of all, how many season ticket holder do you really have? 4,000? No? 3,000? No? probably less than 1,000 and that probably includes partial.

As for the attendance drop, nice explanation for the last 4 years. How do you explain the drop from 4,600 in 06-07 to 3,600 in 09-10?

And the AHL is not the NHL or even as good as some of the European elite leagues. No one ever said the ECHL was the AHL but as many have stated the casual fan that goes because of the Family Four Pack night where they get a ticket, a hot dog, and a small drink for $20 will not care or notice. Or those that go for Scout Night, or Military Appreciation Night.

Glad you have "busloads" of people traveling for games but that is hardly the 4,000 people that go to the home games and is probably not even close to a meaningful percentage of those that have any type of ticket plan with the team.

The wolves used to have a booster club that had almost a thousand member and would take buses to games. Each bus only holds only maybe 100 people.

I guess if you do not want to attend a team in your home town and support them you can just get season ticket and drive to Providence 38 times a year.

The front office in Manchester told me and many other season ticket holders several times over the last several months that the level of play in the ECHL is equal to the AHL. I politely told my ticket rep that he was blowing smoke. Knowledgable hockey fans are tired of all the out right lies that are coming out of the front office in Manchester.

 

[RowdyFan42]

Here is what I think Worcester gets a Bruin ECHL team in two seasons. The owner of the Providence Bruins also owns the New England Sports Center in Marlborough, MA, which is a 10 minute ride to Worcester. He knows buying a cheap ECHL team and sticking it in Worcester will be a winner. Just the Bruins name alone will get more people in the seats than an AHL team.

As for Manchester, I think we will get an AHL team in two years after the attendance numbers drop next year for ECHL hockey. The fans in Manchester aren't stupid they will notice the drop in play. Are odds will improve if the NHL adds an expansion team in Quebec City which is a five hour ride to Manchester. There has to be an owner out there that will want a sure bet winner, which Manchester is.

So Manchester fans are smart enough to notice the difference between the AHL and ECHL, but Worcester fans are stupid enough to "fall for" the ECHL provided somebody slaps a Bruins logo on it? How does that work?

What if Manchester were to get the ECHL Bruins instead? Which would win out, "intelligence" or the Spoked B?

Personally, I think Manchester will be just fine in the ECHL. The diehards may notice a difference, but most people probably aren't going to care too much, so long as they still have hockey to go to. If they prefer to take an "AHL or nothing" stance, they should be prepared for a reality in which they get nothing. These franchises don't grow on trees, you know.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

It will be a process for everybody involved. I'm sure there will still be moves over the next few years. The echl is still a well run league, its a step slower but the average fan will not notice much difference. Will be interesting to see what happens with these echl teams going into ahl cities. Who knows if this western movement will even last. The canucks certainly are taking a wait and see approuch. Best of luck too everyone!!!!

Honestly the difference between the ECHL and AHL isn't much anymore. There's a lot of guys who bounce back and firth between the 2 league. The difference is that the AHL team gets better younger players but from a vet stand point the difference isn't much. The real problem is the callups. In the AHL they are going one place. In the ECHL if the player doesn't have a 2 way contract he can go to any AHL team and that can deplete your roster. Your roster gets more tinkered with in that league.

 

[offkilter]

I didn't mention the name of any AHL team coming to Manchester, someone did mention Quebec though. I would have been happy with the Panthers AHL team, but never ever the Devils.

Beggars can't be choosers, and when all is said and done the Devils might the only option for a market looking to stay in the AHL. As for Florida there's two issues with that.

1. They don't own an AHL franchise to move.

2. If they did they would most likely move it closer to them replacing either the Florida EverBlades or Orlando of the ECHL given the current trends.

 

[Jackets Woodchuck]

Beggars can't be choosers, and when all is said and done the Devils might the only option for a market looking to stay in the AHL. As for Florida there's two issues with that.

1. They don't own an AHL franchise to move.

2. If they did they would most likely move it closer to them replacing either the Florida EverBlades or Orlando of the ECHL given the current trends.

Assuming they stay in Florida. However, if the 4 expansion teams and Arizona relocating come to pass, they may be out of markets to move to.

 

[Nightsquad]

Beggars can't be choosers, and when all is said and done the Devils might the only option for a market looking to stay in the AHL. As for Florida there's two issues with that.

1. They don't own an AHL franchise to move.

2. If they did they would most likely move it closer to them replacing either the Florida EverBlades or Orlando of the ECHL given the current trends.

Ya know, I am going to probably get some backlash here (lol thats ok I am thick skinned) but no way would Manchester support the Devils like Albany has. I say that because if you look at the Devils and how they operate, they dont operate an AHL team to win games, thats a fact. Manchester and their base are so used to a very good relationship with the L.A. Kings. For whatever reason fans in Albany have just become accustomed to very bad AHL hockey and the fact that after the Devils have only placed a team in the playoffs twice (and one time the team was actually in Lowell) I dont think the fans in Manchester would support the same product in the manner they currently do. The NJ Devils have admitted to the Albany area media, we could win a championship or ice championship calibre teams but that doesnt serve purpose of development. My relatives live in the Albany area, and they say the Albany Devils often times dont play to even actually win. Late in the games the coaching staff often changes lines or pairings and it gives the appearance the team is actually running in game drills. They said one game they were at the team was up by two goals. Late in the game with 5 minutes left they screwed with all the pairings and it was obvious the team was running totally different plays which went on through regulation till after it was tied, through overtime, then unfortunately the team lost the game in a shootout. The players left the ice with not even a look of disgust on their faces. If a Manchester ECHL team comes in and the product is very good, competetive and some players developed for the AHL/NHL I think they would be better off.

 

[Nerdlinger]

Ya know, I am going to probably get some backlash here (lol thats ok I am thick skinned) but no way would Manchester support the Devils like Albany has. I say that because if you look at the Devils and how they operate, they dont operate an AHL team to win games, thats a fact. Manchester and their base are so used to a very good relationship with the L.A. Kings. For whatever reason fans in Albany have just become accustomed to very bad AHL hockey and the fact that after the Devils have only placed a team in the playoffs twice (and one time the team was actually in Lowell) I dont think the fans in Manchester would support the same product in the manner they currently do. The NJ Devils have admitted to the Albany area media, we could win a championship or ice championship calibre teams but that doesnt serve purpose of development. My relatives live in the Albany area, and they say the Albany Devils often times dont play to even actually win. Late in the games the coaching staff often changes lines or pairings and it gives the appearance the team is actually running in game drills. They said one game they were at the team was up by two goals. Late in the game with 5 minutes left they screwed with all the pairings and it was obvious the team was running totally different plays which went on through regulation till after it was tied, through overtime, then unfortunately the team lost the game in a shootout. The players left the ice with not even a look of disgust on their faces. If a Manchester ECHL team comes in and the product is very good, competetive and some players developed for the AHL/NHL I think they would be better off.

Well, to be fair, isn't it more important for the players to learn skills than win games in the AHL, ECHL, and the junior leagues?

 

[wildcat48]

Well, to be fair, isn't it more important for the players to learn skills than win games in the AHL, ECHL, and the junior leagues?

That's the problem.... Why even play games? Just have them practice all the time.

 

[Nerdlinger]

That's the problem.... Why even play games? Just have them practice all the time.

Winning is still important from a financial perspective, of course. Cellar dwellers generally don't draw well. But from an individual perspective, I would think learning the skills needed to reach and compete in the NHL is at least somewhat more important. So there needs to be a good balance. Running drills during an actual game is probably going a bit too far, though.

 

[Woo Hockey]

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/25/s...-hotbeds-for-warmer-climes.html?smid=tw-share

A NY Times reporter came to a Worcester Sharks game a few weeks ago and was writing about the changes in the AHL, the article talks about us working towards getting a new team for the 16-17 season. I'll post a thread in here about it tomorrow.

 

[GarbageGoal]

Winning is still important from a financial perspective, of course. Cellar dwellers generally don't draw well. But from an individual perspective, I would think learning the skills needed to reach and compete in the NHL is at least somewhat more important. So there needs to be a good balance. Running drills during an actual game is probably going a bit too far, though.

And all those skills will be learned by trying to win and competing against other teams also trying to win.

 

[GarbageGoal]

Ya know, I am going to probably get some backlash here (lol thats ok I am thick skinned) but no way would Manchester support the Devils like Albany has. I say that because if you look at the Devils and how they operate, they dont operate an AHL team to win games, thats a fact. Manchester and their base are so used to a very good relationship with the L.A. Kings. For whatever reason fans in Albany have just become accustomed to very bad AHL hockey and the fact that after the Devils have only placed a team in the playoffs twice (and one time the team was actually in Lowell) I dont think the fans in Manchester would support the same product in the manner they currently do. The NJ Devils have admitted to the Albany area media, we could win a championship or ice championship calibre teams but that doesnt serve purpose of development. My relatives live in the Albany area, and they say the Albany Devils often times dont play to even actually win. Late in the games the coaching staff often changes lines or pairings and it gives the appearance the team is actually running in game drills. They said one game they were at the team was up by two goals. Late in the game with 5 minutes left they screwed with all the pairings and it was obvious the team was running totally different plays which went on through regulation till after it was tied, through overtime, then unfortunately the team lost the game in a shootout. The players left the ice with not even a look of disgust on their faces. If a Manchester ECHL team comes in and the product is very good, competetive and some players developed for the AHL/NHL I think they would be better off.

Hell, Manchester fans were clamoring for someone else about 2008. Kings prospects weren't playoff material, sick of great regular seasons ending in swift defeat, etc. I threw more than a few names such as the Devils and Coyotes at them as far as "would you really want this parent club?" and a lot just didn't get it.

 

[Tommy Hawk]

Well, to be fair, isn't it more important for the players to learn skills than win games in the AHL, ECHL, and the junior leagues?

Practice doesn't prepare you for 82 games and the travel associated with it. It also doesn't prepare you for the pressure of the playoffs otehrwise the announcers wouldn't ever talk about a team's "playoff experience".

Hell, Manchester fans were clamoring for someone else about 2008. Kings prospects weren't playoff material, sick of great regular seasons ending in swift defeat, etc. I threw more than a few names such as the Devils and Coyotes at them as far as "would you really want this parent club?" and a lot just didn't get it.

And look at the playoff experience and the benefits even if it was early round exits......

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

Well, to be fair, isn't it more important for the players to learn skills than win games in the AHL, ECHL, and the junior leagues?

That's the higher up view. I remember when Steve Martinson coached the E team where I lived for a few years. He was complaining about a guy he could use come playoff time who was rotting away on an AHL team not in the playoffs...Lake Erie. Their GM told him his job was to develop players and he responded....no....my job is to win games. I'm sure the NHL views the AHL the way the AHL views the ECHL and I'm sure sometimes the AHL teams view the NHL like the ECHL teams think of the AHL. The higher ups only care about themselves and sometimes abuse the lower teams.

 

[Rumblick]

That's the higher up view. I remember when Steve Martinson coached the E team where I lived for a few years. He was complaining about a guy he could use come playoff time who was rotting away on an AHL team not in the playoffs...Lake Erie. Their GM told him his job was to develop players and he responded....no....my job is to win games. I'm sure the NHL views the AHL the way the AHL views the ECHL and I'm sure sometimes the AHL teams view the NHL like the ECHL teams think of the AHL. The higher ups only care about themselves and sometimes abuse the lower teams.

Biggest difference I see here is that nearly none of the ECHL teams are dependent on AHL teams for their players, so coaches have a lot more freedom. Even affiliated teams have no more than 1-2 NHL possibles and a few AHL depth players, so the connection is a lot looser. AHL teams are almost entirely dependent on NHL players, so they're a lot more beholden to NHL input.

 

[GarbageGoal]

Biggest difference I see here is that nearly none of the ECHL teams are dependent on AHL teams for their players, so coaches have a lot more freedom. Even affiliated teams have no more than 1-2 NHL possibles and a few AHL depth players, so the connection is a lot looser. AHL teams are almost entirely dependent on NHL players, so they're a lot more beholden to NHL input.

True, but AHL teams will also poach guys not under contract to any other NHL/AHL club. If your top scorer gets hot and he's relatively young and not some ECHL lifer like Wes Goldie, you better hope your head coach/GM doesn't have a lot of connections because he'll get calls from a handful of AHL coaches/GMs about that guy every week.

 

[Sports Enthusiast]

The difference you speak of isn't the same. The AHL can take any ECHL guy not under contract with an AHL team(basically meaning two way for the ECHL team he's on) where as ECHL teams only have the FHL and SPzhL to really get guys from to replace callups. A lot of the guys from the ECHL are called up to either look at or as safety nets because they know that player has some talent and should be able to do the bare minimum. Most FHL/SPHL guys go up to the E and do nothing. Coaches have more roster freedom when it comes to building a roster but I've also seen that backfire. I've seen good AA players get cut from camps for the numbers game. By the time AHL teams start poaching in a given year all the good players are on a team already. Its not quite that glamorous.