News Article: "I'm Not Fahrenheit"-A look at Corsi, the Man

[scelaton]

Nice human interest article. It turns out, the man whose name has polarized opinions on the value of hockey analytics has spent as much time on skates as behind a computer, and has a pretty balanced view of it all...

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/spor...ken-over-analysis-of-the-nhl/article23676561/

Click to read more...

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

It is actually pretty funny how the Corsi stat got its name.

I may be remembering it wrong, but it goes something like this:

When it was first being introduced to the world as a possession indicator, the person who was leading the charge got the lowdown from another person in the Buffalo coaching staff. Either the coach didn't want to take credit, or his name didn't sound good as a stat, so the guy who formally introduced the stat looked at all the names of the coaches in the Buffalo system and decided for some reason or another to call it Corsi.

The guy who actually invented the Stat. I swear to God, the Hockey Gods do exist. It seems like things have a way of shaking out in hockey that makes it seem fair more often than not.

 

[Aavco Cup]

It is actually pretty funny how the Corsi stat got its name.

I may be remembering it wrong, but it goes something like this:

When it was first being introduced to the world as a possession indicator, the person who was leading the charge got the lowdown from another person in the Buffalo coaching staff. Either the coach didn't want to take credit, or his name didn't sound good as a stat, so the guy who formally introduced the stat looked at all the names of the coaches in the Buffalo system and decided for some reason or another to call it Corsi.

The guy who actually invented the Stat. I swear to God, the Hockey Gods do exist. It seems like things have a way of shaking out in hockey that makes it seem fair more often than not.

http://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-the-real-story-of-how-corsi-got-its-name-1.100011

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

http://www.tsn.ca/mckenzie-the-real-story-of-how-corsi-got-its-name-1.100011

Thanks That's such a great story.

Also I need a T-Shirt that says:

Keep Calm and Corsi On.

 

[Analyst365]

Good story and nice fella by all counts.

Can't help but wonder if his name is destined to be synonymous with the analytics movement and the death of creative, exciting hockey as we know it.

Certainly there is a trend towards players, coaches, and teams adopting a stats-driven, safety first, approach to maximizing stats in favour of risk (and fan excitement).

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Good story and nice fella by all counts.

Can't help but wonder if his name is destined to be synonymous with the analytics movement and the death of creative, exciting hockey as we know it.

Certainly there is a trend towards players, coaches, and teams adopting a stats-driven, safety first, approach to maximizing stats in favour of risk (and fan excitement).

A coach should be fired on the spot if he uses corsi numbers as a teaching moment with his players. Corsi is an evaluating/predicting tool.

Good hockey leads to good corsi, not the other way around.

 

[Aavco Cup]

A coach should be fired on the spot if he uses corsi numbers as a teaching moment with his players. Corsi is an evaluating/predicting tool.

Good hockey leads to good corsi, not the other way around.

Eakins was apparently trying to teach corsi improvement. You know others will try eventually.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

Eakins was apparently trying to teach corsi improvement. You know others will try eventually.

Coaches should use corsi behind player's backs. To evaluate their overall game and their effects on the team's performance in general.

(See Lowry on the Jets. There's a reason he's out there late in games, because his corsi against is amazing. Perfect use of advanced stats to recognize a trend in how a certain player plays the game.)

Players should never hear what their corsi number is. If you start doing that, you'll get players just playing for corsi, which doesn't work. For corsi to be a useful stat your team needs to be playing to win the game, not playing for a good corsi.

 

[KJF]

Good story and nice fella by all counts.

Can't help but wonder if his name is destined to be synonymous with the analytics movement and the death of creative, exciting hockey as we know it.

Certainly there is a trend towards players, coaches, and teams adopting a stats-driven, safety first, approach to maximizing stats in favour of risk (and fan excitement).

I think the style of hockey that leads to good corsi is pretty exciting to watch. Puck moving defensemen, carrying the puck into the zone instead of dump-ins, aggressive puck pursuit in neutral zone. Good stuff

 

[Analyst365]

A coach should be fired on the spot if he uses corsi numbers as a teaching moment with his players. Corsi is an evaluating/predicting tool.

Good hockey leads to good corsi, not the other way around.

I was speaking in the abstract about stats use in general ... the name Corsi becoming synonymous with more than just that stat.

Anyway .. steady on.

 

[Ducky10]

Eakins was apparently trying to teach corsi improvement. You know others will try eventually.

In what way was he trying to do that?

 

[Analyst365]

In what way was he trying to do that?

With an axe and a bucket

 

[Aavco Cup]

In what way was he trying to do that?

You'd have to ask someone in the Edmonton forum. That tidbit was leaked to the media by a player. I'm not sure if there are any details about how Eakins was trying to accomplish that.

http://oilersnation.com/2015/3/16/gaming-corsi-on-the-power-play/trash

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

You'd have to ask someone in the Edmonton forum. That tidbit was leaked to the media by a player. I'm not sure if there are any details about how Eakins was trying to accomplish that.

http://oilersnation.com/2015/3/16/gaming-corsi-on-the-power-play/trash

The comments below that article are interesting. Many versions of 'Corsi sucks'. Its like they didn't read the article at all but I'm betting it is more a product of reading comprehension, or lack thereof.

 

[Puckatron 3000]

Can't help but wonder if his name is destined to be synonymous with the analytics movement and the death of creative, exciting hockey as we know it.

Certainly there is a trend towards players, coaches, and teams adopting a stats-driven, safety first, approach to maximizing stats in favour of risk (and fan excitement).

Couldn't disagree more.

Maximizing stats has nothing to do with minimizing excitement. You could easily argue the opposite.

If anything, stats do a better job of getting the good, exciting, deserving players on the ice, and killing the biases that would otherwise prevent that.

 

[Ducky10]

You'd have to ask someone in the Edmonton forum. That tidbit was leaked to the media by a player. I'm not sure if there are any details about how Eakins was trying to accomplish that.

http://oilersnation.com/2015/3/16/gaming-corsi-on-the-power-play/trash

Not sure I've read an article that used the word "if" more than that one.

 

[garret9]

Good story and nice fella by all counts.

Can't help but wonder if his name is destined to be synonymous with the analytics movement and the death of creative, exciting hockey as we know it.

Certainly there is a trend towards players, coaches, and teams adopting a stats-driven, safety first, approach to maximizing stats in favour of risk (and fan excitement).

What the ****? This is just ridiculous.

Being able to better measure player and team performance is the sole use and purpose of statistics and has had no impact on what you are talking about.

Player safety is a completely separate and independent conversation.

Hell statistics have been pushing hockey to less dump and chase. No idea what the hell you are trying to argue.

 

[garret9]

Eakins was apparently trying to teach corsi improvement. You know others will try eventually.

I can only say so much, but that was bull ****.
All I can say is I'm a personal acquaintance of Dellow.

Hell, it was only last year where Eberle said trying to improve Corsi for the sake of trying to improve Corsi would probably do nothing, if not make it worse.

Corsi is simply a byproduct of good play and a measure of performance. Anyone who thinks otherwise should not be advising teams.
Edmonton suffered terrible goaltending. Before and after Eakins. Whatever.

It's also ridiculous because Corsi isn't really used much for power play effectiveness measuring, which is where that hold argument came from.

 

[wpgsilver]

What the ****? This is just ridiculous.

Being able to better measure player and team performance is the sole use and purpose of statistics and has had no impact on what you are talking about.

Player safety is a completely separate and independent conversation.

Hell statistics have been pushing hockey to less dump and chase. No idea what the hell you are trying to argue.

I can only say so much, but that was bull ****.
All I can say is I'm a personal acquaintance of Dellow.

Hell, it was only last year where Eberle said trying to improve Corsi for the sake of trying to improve Corsi would probably do nothing, if not make it worse.

Corsi is simply a byproduct of good play and a measure of performance. Anyone who thinks otherwise should not be advising teams.
Edmonton suffered terrible goaltending. Before and after Eakins. Whatever.

It's also ridiculous because Corsi isn't really used much for power play effectiveness measuring, which is where that hold argument came from.

I like angry Garret.
I also agree with angry Garret.
But I'm doing so out of fear.

 

[nags]

What the ****? This is just ridiculous.

Being able to better measure player and team performance is the sole use and purpose of statistics and has had no impact on what you are talking about.

Player safety is a completely separate and independent conversation.

Hell statistics have been pushing hockey to less dump and chase. No idea what the hell you are trying to argue.

And once again I agree with Grand and not you. Analytics have been used in soccer for a very long time. The game is only now starting to recover from an era of very safe and very boring tactics.

Quoted from the man himself.

“I often say, ‘Statistics are like a lamppost for a drunkard. You can either use it to lean on or to illuminate.’â€

Stop being so sure of yourself.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Stop being so sure of yourself.

There is a lot of analysis in the statistics community that points to correlation between certain statistics and #winz, over the long haul.

A question: does a team that keeps possession of the puck in the o-zone, limits defensive chances, and makes the neutral zone a difficult area to play in, a boring team?

That's what a "good Corsi" team does, and it's what the Jets are doing. Do you find that boring? It also begs the question (and is a point that has been raised) - do teams that employ successful strategies end up with good Corsi ratings by happenstance, or by plan? Are they planning on having a strong CF%, or are they employing strategies that result in success by maximizing possession.

It's more than possible to ignore the stats conversations, and simply enjoy the hockey. There are others that like to use it as a means for analysing and either confirming or breaking down their biases. There are others that are much more into it than that. Diversity makes for interesting conversation.

If you REALLY dislike stats conversations, you're always free to click X on the particular stats thread, to make it vanish forever.

"I often say, ‘Statistics are like a lamppost for a drunkard. You can either use it to lean on or to illuminate.’”

I believe that used correctly, the stats that are being discussed can be used to illuminate. It's better than staggering off into the dark, which I tend to do often.

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

The reason style and scoring are down come down to a lot more than "Stats"

-Less Fighters. Used to be rosters had token tough guys, who couldn't really play hockey in their own end.

-Goalie Technique. Goalies are not stupid. The Butterfly probably cuts down about 1 or 2 goals a game.

-Actual D-Men technique/athletes. more and better players playing defense.

-Coaches who realize what their teams are. Coaches realize sometimes their best players just don't come up to snuff, so a stifling style is the best chance to win and keep a job in the NHL.

 

[nags]

There is a lot of analysis in the statistics community that points to correlation between certain statistics and #winz, over the long haul.

A question: does a team that keeps possession of the puck in the o-zone, limits defensive chances, and makes the neutral zone a difficult area to play in, a boring team?

That's what a "good Corsi" team does, and it's what the Jets are doing. Do you find that boring? It also begs the question (and is a point that has been raised) - do teams that employ successful strategies end up with good Corsi ratings by happenstance, or by plan? Are they planning on having a strong CF%, or are they employing strategies that result in success by maximizing possession.

It's more than possible to ignore the stats conversations, and simply enjoy the hockey. There are others that like to use it as a means for analysing and either confirming or breaking down their biases. There are others that are much more into it than that. Diversity makes for interesting conversation.

If you REALLY dislike stats conversations, you're always free to click X on the particular stats thread, to make it vanish forever.



I believe that used correctly, the stats that are being discussed can be used to illuminate. It's better than staggering off into the dark, which I tend to do often.

And cue in the cavalry to save Mr. Garret.

Garret was wrong in his dismissive and rude response to Grand..... and it isn't the first time.

Glad Corsi was trained as an engineer and not a stats or comp sci major.

Gives him a little more insight into messy problems and the limits of the tools currently being advocated by people who really don't understand the dangers or the limits of the tools they use.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

And cue in the cavalry to save Mr. Garret.

Where did I once mention garret? I was talking about Corsi and its supposedly deleterious effects on the game. You know: attempting to have a reasonable discourse? I am my own person, as is garret - he can defend himself. I'm more interested in discussing and debating the non-sequiturs tossed out regarding Corsi.

 

[Analyst365]

What the ****? This is just ridiculous.

Being able to better measure player and team performance is the sole use and purpose of statistics and has had no impact on what you are talking about.

Player safety is a completely separate and independent conversation.

Hell statistics have been pushing hockey to less dump and chase. No idea what the hell you are trying to argue.

Sheesh. Defensive much? I didn't say "death to all stats" though it seems you may have read it that way. Anyway, it is not so ridiculous as you may think. Scouts are willing to discuss it.

http://news.arseblog.com/2014/12/grimandi-questions-role-of-stats-in-scouting/

"... these numbers act as a safety guard for decision-makers who lack courage. That, yes, that annoys me. The other problem, is that the players are aware of this trend. .... We see more and more players fleeing the duel and I think that there is a risk that this continues until statistics count this refusal of a player to engage himself."

I am not sure why comments like these ... sometimes I make them ... polarize opinion so much. Without perspective, stats are useless, and without stats, perspective is useless. Players and agents are not stupid. There's a lot of money at stake. More and more players will play the stats game in favour of risk. Coaches too. I was just wondering out loud what this means over the long run for the game in terms of its entertainment value.