IIHF not ready to re-incorporate Russian players into international competitions for 2024-25

[LadyStanley]

So maybe 2026 Olympics.

Click to read more...

 

[Albatros]

The NHL is not a part of the IIHF, their decisions do not need to align at all.

 

[sr edler]

Teams like Finland, Sweden, Czech Republic and Slovakia (and perhaps some other countries as well) wouldn't play against Russia anyways at the current state of things, so this whole discussion about IIHF eligibility seems kinda moot.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

No politics, please.

IF you've had a post deleted by one of us over the past couple of days, take the hint because there won't be a second hint.

 

[vorky]

No politics, please.

IF you've had a post deleted by one of us over the past couple of days, take the hint because there won't be a second hint.

OK with deleting. I respect your rules.

Just to clarify. I see NO POLITICS here. If you or others see a politics here, it is just your point of view, not mine.

I see just a LEGAL ISSUE in this case. The IIHF argument in Russian case has been a safety risks/security reasons since day one. OK, I accept it. But why they talk about a Fedotov case now? There is something wrong with their argumentation. Legally speaking, it looks like they have no idea what is going on.

Sadly, they just do not realise that their decisions will lead to the fragmentation of the IIHF resulting in weakening their authority within global hockey community. I do not like it.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

If you can keep it to legal/business issues without bleeding into politics, we're game.

 

[MeHateHe]

Let me see if I can dance on the head of this pin.

Full disclosure: my family came to Canada from the Mariupol region, so I have a bias.

I think those who want to have Russia brought back have been using a lot of different justifications, and the variability of those justifications strike me as grasping to some extent. 'It's not fair to the poor players,' we hear. Now 'it's not legal' and 'it's causing a fracturing of the IIHF.' I don't buy any of this. People want Russia to play in the IIHF tournaments no matter what, irrespective of the reasons why they have been excluded. That's an honest statement and it's the only thing that matters to those defenders.

In fairness, as a hockey fan, I want Russia in tournaments so we can keep kicking their ass from one end of the rink to the other. There was nothing better than that 7-2 thrashing in Vancouver.

But (and here comes the dancing), the international community sets standards under which countries are welcomed into polite society. International sports organizations banned South Africa - despite the outcry in the cricket and rugby world - and didn't readmit them until apartheid was on its way out. Was it unfair to the young cricketers in South Africa? Sure. Was it 'illegal'? Doubtful, but you could argue that. Did it fracture the world cricket world? I think the global cricket survived just fine. Meanwhile, citizens of other countries were adamant that their teams not play against South Africa while they maintained their racist policies. I think history has shown it was the right thing to do.

@Bear of Bad News I tried. I hold no ill will if this vanishes, but let the record show I tried.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I think those who want to have Russia brought back have been using a lot of different justifications, and the variability of those justifications strike me as grasping to some extent. 'It's not fair to the poor players,' we hear. Now 'it's not legal' and 'it's causing a fracturing of the IIHF.' I don't buy any of this.

Except you are approaching this wrong. You are taking the approach of "the baseline is banned, have to prove they're a good boy to be allowed in" when the basis in international sports is always the opposite, or else it becomes "the Western Nations Invitational"

welcomed into polite society

See this is your "loaded" statement and how the whole thing becomes head-scratching and arbitrary. Canada and USA could just as easily be banned for not being "polite" based on various things involving their countries and hockey federations, but that doesn't happen because "international hockey" is all their friends (and very importantly, not "the world" like if the rest of BRICS had a stronger international hockey presence).

 

[Dessloch]

Wise decision, hopefully it will continue indefinitely, teams like Sweden, Finland, Slovakia, and Czech Republic would probably refuse to play Russia anyways! In 2029 or 2030 it would make sense to consider again.

Nobody misses Russia, they have not won anything of lately expect the watered down olympics where they almost lost to Germany which would have been truly embarrassing. The sporting loss of Russia is minimal.

There is no need to invite this nation who is notoriously known for doping, cheating, corruption and now for something we cant discuss but everyone knows what is is. The hockey federation of Russia have always been the flagship PR machine for the motherland, they dont deserve to use it currently!

Let the Russian players enjoy the KHL, they can do whatever want there and be rich without bothering or upsetting anyone.

 

[vorky]

Let me see if I can dance on the head of this pin.

Full disclosure: my family came to Canada from the Mariupol region, so I have a bias.

I think those who want to have Russia brought back have been using a lot of different justifications, and the variability of those justifications strike me as grasping to some extent. 'It's not fair to the poor players,' we hear. Now 'it's not legal' and 'it's causing a fracturing of the IIHF.' I don't buy any of this. People want Russia to play in the IIHF tournaments no matter what, irrespective of the reasons why they have been excluded. That's an honest statement and it's the only thing that matters to those defenders.

In fairness, as a hockey fan, I want Russia in tournaments so we can keep kicking their ass from one end of the rink to the other. There was nothing better than that 7-2 thrashing in Vancouver.

But (and here comes the dancing), the international community sets standards under which countries are welcomed into polite society. International sports organizations banned South Africa - despite the outcry in the cricket and rugby world - and didn't readmit them until apartheid was on its way out. Was it unfair to the young cricketers in South Africa? Sure. Was it 'illegal'? Doubtful, but you could argue that. Did it fracture the world cricket world? I think the global cricket survived just fine. Meanwhile, citizens of other countries were adamant that their teams not play against South Africa while they maintained their racist policies. I think history has shown it was the right thing to do.

@Bear of Bad News I tried. I hold no ill will if this vanishes, but let the record show I tried.

Since you replied to my post, I will try to react.

First of all, I respect your backround, your family roots.

Ad legal issue

It may sound weird to people, but IIHF using different legal reasons for their decision than it is presented in public.

Ad fracturing of the IIHF

While respecting the NHL, I want the European club hockey to be strong. The IIHF has always been a battlefield between bureaucrats from national hockey federations and European leagues.

All decisions made by IIHF since around 2014 has resulted in weakening European hockey. People running European hockey, now sitting in IIHF Council & other institutions, follow their only reason for decision on Russia - it is a personal revenge, nothing else. Of course, they talk to media about humanity, morality etc. but true reasons for their decision are not morality etc. I will give you an example. Swedish Hockey Association threatened the Russian Hockey Federation to stop all NTs games if Russians will accept a Swedish club in KHL. Unfair practice many years ago ... So, Swedes wanted to boycott Russians even without we know what. Why shoould I believe the same Swedes they are angels now, their motives, if they behaved like that a few years ago? The same with Finns & revenge for Jokerit. And I could go on and on with examples.

I wrote earlier how that will affect the IIHF, read my posts. To sum it up. The decision on Russia helped the KHL to separate itself from the IIHF - as the NHL. When this mess is over, it will affect all IIHF and European leagues which will be even weaker than now, Not the best scenario for them.

The funnniest part - European hockey officials, who takes the NHL as God of Hockey, do not realise the NHL is not on their side in this game.

 

[MeHateHe]

Just to continue my thread: anyone who thinks watching high-level cricket was more important than the racist atrocity that was apartheid has terrible priorities.

 

[Garl]

Let me see if I can dance on the head of this pin.

Full disclosure: my family came to Canada from the Mariupol region, so I have a bias.

I think those who want to have Russia brought back have been using a lot of different justifications, and the variability of those justifications strike me as grasping to some extent. 'It's not fair to the poor players,' we hear. Now 'it's not legal' and 'it's causing a fracturing of the IIHF.' I don't buy any of this. People want Russia to play in the IIHF tournaments no matter what, irrespective of the reasons why they have been excluded. That's an honest statement and it's the only thing that matters to those defenders.

In fairness, as a hockey fan, I want Russia in tournaments so we can keep kicking their ass from one end of the rink to the other. There was nothing better than that 7-2 thrashing in Vancouver.

But (and here comes the dancing), the international community sets standards under which countries are welcomed into polite society. International sports organizations banned South Africa - despite the outcry in the cricket and rugby world - and didn't readmit them until apartheid was on its way out. Was it unfair to the young cricketers in South Africa? Sure. Was it 'illegal'? Doubtful, but you could argue that. Did it fracture the world cricket world? I think the global cricket survived just fine. Meanwhile, citizens of other countries were adamant that their teams not play against South Africa while they maintained their racist policies. I think history has shown it was the right thing to do.

@Bear of Bad News I tried. I hold no ill will if this vanishes, but let the record show I tried.

Yes, there is an opportunistic drive behind all of those excuses

 

[Garl]

Since you replied to my post, I will try to react.

First of all, I respect your backround, your family roots.

Ad legal issue

It may sound weird to people, but IIHF using different legal reasons for their decision than it is presented in public.

Ad fracturing of the IIHF

While respecting the NHL, I want the European club hockey to be strong. The IIHF has always been a battlefield between bureaucrats from national hockey federations and European leagues.

All decisions made by IIHF since around 2014 has resulted in weakening European hockey. People running European hockey, now sitting in IIHF Council & other institutions, follow their only reason for decision on Russia - it is a personal revenge, nothing else. Of course, they talk to media about humanity, morality etc. but true reasons for their decision are not morality etc. I will give you an example. Swedish Hockey Association threatened the Russian Hockey Federation to stop all NTs games if Russians will accept a Swedish club in KHL. Unfair practice many years ago ... So, Swedes wanted to boycott Russians even without we know what. Why shoould I believe the same Swedes they are angels now, their motives, if they behaved like that a few years ago? The same with Finns & revenge for Jokerit. And I could go on and on with examples.

I wrote earlier how that will affect the IIHF, read my posts. To sum it up. The decision on Russia helped the KHL to separate itself from the IIHF - as the NHL. When this mess is over, it will affect all IIHF and European leagues which will be even weaker than now, Not the best scenario for them.

The funnniest part - European hockey officials, who takes the NHL as God of Hockey, do not realise the NHL is not on their side in this game.

How does this "Strong european league" look like in your view? 32 team league with 20 russian teams, 1 from Belarus, 1 from China, 1 from Latvia, 1 from Kazakhstan, 1 from Finland, 1 from Slovakia 1 from Czechia, 1 from Sweden, 1 from Germany, 1 from Croatia, 1 from Austria, 1 from UAE?

 

[Albatros]

The same with Finns & revenge for Jokerit. And I could go on and on with examples.

I wrote earlier how that will affect the IIHF, read my posts. To sum it up. The decision on Russia helped the KHL to separate itself from the IIHF - as the NHL. When this mess is over, it will affect all IIHF and European leagues which will be even weaker than now, Not the best scenario for them.

The funnniest part - European hockey officials, who takes the NHL as God of Hockey, do not realise the NHL is not on their side in this game.

Ask those Jokerit fans themselves and 10/10 will tell that they much prefer the 2nd tier Mestis over the KHL.

The KHL was not a meaningful part of European club hockey even for the last ten years, did not want to be.

 

[vorky]

How does this "Strong european league" look like in your view? 32 team league with 20 russian teams, 1 from Belarus, 1 from China, 1 from Latvia, 1 from Kazakhstan, 1 from Finland, 1 from Slovakia 1 from Czechia, 1 from Sweden, 1 from Germany, 1 from Croatia, 1 from Austria, 1 from UAE?

Sorry man, this is not a topic of this thread. Since I do not want to break forum rules, I will not reply you. If you want to discuss such a topic, create a separate thread.

 

[vorky]

Ask those Jokerit fans themselves and 10/10 will tell that they much prefer the 2nd tier Mestis over the KHL.

The KHL was not a meaningful part of European club hockey even for the last ten years, did not want to be.

I believe you do not get the point.

The rest of your post is not a topic of this thread. Since I do not want to break forum rules, I will not reply you. If you want to discuss such a topic, create a separate thread.

 

[Garl]

Sorry man, this is not a topic of this thread. Since I do not want to break forum rules, I will not reply you. If you want to discuss such a topic, create a separate thread.

It kinda is, but ok, it is up to you.

 

[Zine]

Let me see if I can dance on the head of this pin.

Full disclosure: my family came to Canada from the Mariupol region, so I have a bias.

I think those who want to have Russia brought back have been using a lot of different justifications, and the variability of those justifications strike me as grasping to some extent. 'It's not fair to the poor players,' we hear. Now 'it's not legal' and 'it's causing a fracturing of the IIHF.' I don't buy any of this. People want Russia to play in the IIHF tournaments no matter what, irrespective of the reasons why they have been excluded. That's an honest statement and it's the only thing that matters to those defenders.

In fairness, as a hockey fan, I want Russia in tournaments so we can keep kicking their ass from one end of the rink to the other. There was nothing better than that 7-2 thrashing in Vancouver.

But (and here comes the dancing), the international community sets standards under which countries are welcomed into polite society. International sports organizations banned South Africa - despite the outcry in the cricket and rugby world - and didn't readmit them until apartheid was on its way out. Was it unfair to the young cricketers in South Africa? Sure. Was it 'illegal'? Doubtful, but you could argue that. Did it fracture the world cricket world? I think the global cricket survived just fine. Meanwhile, citizens of other countries were adamant that their teams not play against South Africa while they maintained their racist policies. I think history has shown it was the right thing to do.

@Bear of Bad News I tried. I hold no ill will if this vanishes, but let the record show I tried.

Right, but generally speaking no standards or criteria exist by which the international sports community defines ‘polite society’. It’s an arbitrary concept more often than not predicated on the interests of certain influential federation members.

When member federations use an international governing body as an instrument to promote their own political self-interests, it opens the door to inequity, uneven punishment and potential illegalities.

 

[archangel2]

I am shocked Canada has escaped unpunished for the problems with their JR teams

 

[Albatros]

I am shocked Canada has escaped unpunished for the problems with their JR teams

There's an ongoing IIHF investigation.

 

[vorky]

I am shocked Canada has escaped unpunished for the problems with their JR teams

Yes, Canada should be suspended from WJC until the final decision is made by Canadian courts in this case.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I am shocked Canada has escaped unpunished for the problems with their JR teams

Sorry to get cynical but there is no way Canada gets suspended from IIHF events - because the World Juniors make so much money from Canada. Nobody else in the world cares about the event - but it's a major event in Canada.

And that reason - money - is probably why Russia will be back sooner or later. I, personally, think that Russia should be permanently banned rom international competition until the last Russian soldier leaves internationally recognized Ukrainian territory. But lots of money to be made from Russian participation.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Sorry, folks - it worked for a while.