IIHA files claim with CAS over expulsion from World Championship UPD ban reversed

[LadyStanley]

Ah, politics and war rear their heads again

Click to read more...

 

[MXD]

Ah, politics and war rear their heads again

That "We prefer to have you not participate for safety purposes" stance from the IIHF was very ridiculous.

 

[MeHateHe]

That "We prefer to have you not participate for safety purposes" stance from the IIHF was very ridiculous.

It's a hook they can hang their decision on. A tournament game in 2015 in South Africa featuring Israel was the subject of protests in which people threw marbles and paint on the ice. Given that the political situation is heightened, it's not unreasonable to think that the risk of protests and disruptions is also much higher.

 

[MXD]

It's a hook they can hang their decision on. A tournament game in 2015 in South Africa featuring Israel was the subject of protests in which people threw marbles and paint on the ice. Given that the political situation is heightened, it's not unreasonable to think that the risk of protests and disruptions is also much higher.

But it's such a transparent hook..

 

[daver]

But it's such a transparent hook..

As opposed to what? Making a clear political statement that is not called for (presumably) in their mandate?

Not looking to get into a political discussion but am interested in how sport governing bodies react to challenging geopolitical situations.

It does seem reasonable that given the current climate, safety is a major concern.

 

[MXD]

As opposed to what? Making a clear political statement that is not called for (presumably) in their mandate?

Not looking to get into a political discussion but am interested in how sport governing bodies react to challenging geopolitical situations.

It does seem reasonable that given the current climate, safety is a major concern.

It's still very transparent bullshit, which looks worse on the IIHF than if they'd squarely suspended them.
(Granted, the difference with Russia is that Israel didn't attack a member state, so it's probably not as clear a ground for explicit suspension, and presumably no country - important ones at least - threatening to leave over this)

 

[Voight]

It's still very transparent bullshit, which looks worse on the IIHF than if they'd squarely suspended them.
(Granted, the difference with Russia is that Israel didn't attack a member state, so it's probably not as clear a ground for explicit suspension, and presumably no country - important ones at least - threatening to leave over this)

Russia was also the aggressor, whereas Israeli was and is defending itself.

 

[MXD]

Russia was also the aggressor, whereas Israeli was and is defending itself.

Ehhh... Iet's just say that Israel is attacking a piece of land on which its aggressors were, and leave it at that since it's isn't a poli board.

 

[edog37]

Ehhh... Iet's just say that Israel is attacking a piece of land on which its aggressors were, and leave it at that since it's isn't a poli board.

Israel was defending itself plain & simple. This gutless decision by the IIHF is just another reason why intl hockey is a joke.

 

[FrHockeyFan]

According to the IIHF's latest press release, the U20 team is the only team concerned at this moment. The IIHF council will make a decision about the other teams at their next meeting in February for the March events and the one in March for the April ones.

IIHF - IIHF to provide further clarification regarding the participation of the Israeli National Team in IIHF Championships

The IIHF would like to provide further clarification on its recent decision regarding the participation ...

www.iihf.com

 

[MXD]

Israel was defending itself plain & simple. This gutless decision by the IIHF is just another reason why intl hockey is a joke.

Again, Israel is attacking a piece of land on which its aggressors were, and we'll leave it at that.

 

[daver]

Again, Israel is attacking a piece of land on which its aggressors were, and we'll leave it at that.

To be fair, you are making a political comment yourself, albeit more subtlety, namely that Israel is worthy of being suspended. Or am I misreading?

You seem to be not wanting to take the IIHF action at face value; an action that is seemingly not being portrayed as being a political one but a common sense one based on current temperature reading.

 

[Voight]

According to the IIHF's latest press release, the U20 team is the only team concerned at this moment. The IIHF council will make a decision about the other teams at their next meeting in February for the March events and the one in March for the April ones.

IIHF - IIHF to provide further clarification regarding the participation of the Israeli National Team in IIHF Championships

The IIHF would like to provide further clarification on its recent decision regarding the participation ...

www.iihf.com

Still complete BS.

 

[Yukon Joe]

OK, so trying to stay out of politics (I'm firmly on the "Israel has a right to defend itself, but is open to criticism on how it's doing it side of things", but that's all I'll say)...

So Israel is a country that has had it's athletes murdered for political reasons (Munich 1972), but yes this reasoning seems pretty transparent. "We're going to ban you for your own safety" - surely that's up to Israel and its athletes whether they want to take the risk or not?

That being said, it's clearly within the purview of the IIHF to ban a country from international competition because of the actions of that country. Russia is the very obvious example. So if the IIHF wants to ban Israel for Israel's actions in Gaza they should do so plainly, and then take the heat that comes with that decision.

As an aside, I'm surprised how well Israel ranks for a country in the middle of the middle east. IIHF ranking in #33. Can/should I assume it's from US/Canadian dual citizens playing for Israel? Anyone know?

 

[MeHateHe]

"We're going to ban you for your own safety" - surely that's up to Israel and its athletes whether they want to take the risk or not?

To begin with, the organizer of an event takes responsibility for the safety of everyone as part of hosting the event. I think it would be lunacy to say we are going to host an event that has an unreasonable level of risk: it's the antithesis of risk management.

Moreover, if one group is not safe at an event, everyone is unsafe. If someone walks into a crowded building seeking to do harm to a small group inside the building, everyone in the building is at risk.

 

[Moose Head]

As an aside, I'm surprised how well Israel ranks for a country in the middle of the middle east. IIHF ranking in #33. Can/should I assume it's from US/Canadian dual citizens playing for Israel? Anyone know?

Not sure, but they’ve also had a lot of east European, especially Russian and Ukrainian immigrants over the years.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Not sure, but they’ve also had a lot of east European, especially Russian and Ukrainian immigrants over the years.

I was more thinking the lack of facilities in Israel. I know there are some, but guessed it might be mostly people who grew up playing hockey in Canada/US who are playing for Israel's national hockey team.

(Insert Airplane! joke about the pamphlet on great Jewish sports legends)

 

[MeHateHe]

Not sure, but they’ve also had a lot of east European, especially Russian and Ukrainian immigrants over the years.

And American and Canadians. It's been mixed bag. As someone noted in the other thread, they had Jean Perron coaching for a while over there, and a good coach can make a lot of difference among the minnows.

Hockey in the middle east is a fascinating study. In UAE and Qatar and other places, the game's popularity was helped by Canadians working in the oil industry looking for a way to keep playing.

 

[Albatros]

To begin with, the organizer of an event takes responsibility for the safety of everyone as part of hosting the event. Ithink it would lunacy to say we are going to host an event that has an unreasonable level of risk: it's the antithesis of risk management.

Moreover, if one group is not safe at an event, everyone is unsafe. If someone walks into a crowded building seeking to do harm to a small group inside the building, everyone in the building is at risk.

This. Russia and Belarus never took their expulsion to the CAS, so this ruling is ultimately also relevant to them. The IIHF Disciplinary Board dismissed their appeal confirming that the IIHF could disallow participation of individual members as a part of their safety policy. Given that Israel has apparently not taken their case to the IIHF Disciplinary Board as stipulated by the IIHF statutes and bylaws, the IIHF can also argue that they are acting outside of their membership rights.

 

[Yukon Joe]

This. Russia and Belarus never took their expulsion to the CAS, so this ruling is ultimately also relevant to them. The IIHF Disciplinary Board dismissed their appeal confirming that the IIHF could disallow participation of individual members as a part of their safety policy. Given that Israel has apparently not taken their case to the IIHF Disciplinary Board as stipulated by the IIHF statutes and bylaws, the IIHF can also argue that they are acting outside of their membership rights.

OK, so I'm breaking my own cardinal rule by commenting not on the original documents, but by a new report (and in this case, the JPost which while reputable obviously has an inherent bias).

The expulsion in this case though wasn't a disciplinary matter, but a matter of safety, so why would the Disciplinary Board even factor into it?

 

[Tom ServoMST3K]

I view this as a transparent attempt to ban Isreal, without actually banning them.

Have the courage of your convictions to ban if that's what you want to do.

 

[MeHateHe]

I view this as a transparent attempt to ban Isreal, without actually banning them.

Have the courage of your convictions to ban if that's what you want to do.

And they sent Al Capone to prison for tax evasion. Sometimes you use the best tool and sometimes you use the defenseable tool. I am not suited to judge anyone's morality but it is fair to raise issues of safety, a topic which a lot more people can wrap their heads around.

 

[Yukon Joe]

And they sent Al Capone to prison for tax evasion. Sometimes you use the best tool and sometimes you use the defenseable tool. I am not suited to judge anyone's morality but it is fair to raise issues of safety, a topic which a lot more people can wrap their heads around.

I think that says everything about your position right there.

Unfortunately no way I can respond without getting political.

 

[Albatros]

OK, so I'm breaking my own cardinal rule by commenting not on the original documents, but by a new report (and in this case, the JPost which while reputable obviously has an inherent bias).

The expulsion in this case though wasn't a disciplinary matter, but a matter of safety, so why would the Disciplinary Board even factor into it?

The name may indeed in some cases be somewhat misleading as according to the statutes and bylaws "for all decisions made by the Council in accordance herewith, an MNA’s sole remedy prior to the Extra-Ordinary Congress is to appeal to the IIHF Disciplinary Board."

 

[MeHateHe]

I think that says everything about your position right there.

Weird, because my position is pretty nuanced, and I haven't said anything about it.