Post-Game Talk: If you don't think Despres is the best player in the world, GTFO. Pens-5, Sharks-1

[SHOOTANDSCORE]

I really like this post. Good job... we are going to have to make a move when everyone gets health, though. Im hoping one of the older redundant dmen goes, but I fear they will lose Bortz instead

Thanks


Sometimes I think they aren't seeing the big picture and sometimes I think they are seeing A big picture, it just happens to be a fubar one.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I watched the Sharks feed for the entire 2nd half of the game. According to their expert announce team:

1. The Pens are masterful tacticians at gaining zone entry;
2. The "Pittsburgh Piranhas" pounce on loose pucks and score many of their goals off of rebounds;
3. MAF was the goalie during the Bruins series last season and the Pens gave him no support.

These were true for that game, anyway. As for #3...not much you can say, haha.

 

[UnrealMachine]

These were true for that game, anyway. As for #3...not much you can say, haha.

I agree, but they were making those statements as if that's what the Pens were known for (i.e. the Sharks should have known not to allow rebounds, etc.). I would highly recommend re-watching that feed for a good laugh.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

I agree, but they were making those statements as if that's what the Pens were known for (i.e. the Sharks should have known not to allow rebounds, etc.). I would highly recommend re-watching that feed for a good laugh.

I believe it. I don't expect regional WC broadcasters to be very knowledgeable when it comes to EC teams.

 

[dueling mullets]

+ Bylsma
- Everybody who said he was an idiot because of the lines

We beat arguably the best team in the league 5-1 with those lines. Definitively. Gloriously.

I graciously accept your humble apologies on DB's behalf.

As for the players:

Plus

Fleury - Caused some tense moments with his puckhandling yet again, but he made some big saves at key moments.
Letang - That's the Letang we paid big money for. Strong, fast, dynamic, playing within himself.
Crosby - Made plenty of brilliant plays and made them look easy by letting the game come to him instead of forcing low-percentage passes.
Megna - Great hustle, smarts, forecheck, and snipe. Love what this kid's brought.
Maatta - Such high panic threshold. Plays like a vet. A good one.
Despregasus - Big, smooth, strong. Galloping all over the ice again.
Vitale - Hungry and always heading for the net.
Ebbett and Conner - Much maligned minor league fodder doing an admirable job sustaining zone time in the opposite end.
Kunitz - Very opportunistic.

Minus

Orpik and Engelland - Handled the puck like a live grenade. Orpik was the worst offender with some blatant giveaways and hit chasing.

The first goal was KCD on a deflection from an Orpik shot. I can count how many times I've been able to say that on my fingers and toes.

The second goal was a play by Despres and Megna, no one else. These are two players that should be in the lineup more than DB has them in. This goal makes Bylsma look worse for not having them in the lineup whenever possible.

The third goal was Kunitz Crosby Neal, which only became a line because Dupuis got hurt. Easy decision there, even for my mother.

The fourth goal was a PPG, enough said.

The fifth goal came with Kunitz - Crosby - Vitale on a weak shot by Tanger, after that line was getting offensive pressure the whole game.

Fleury saved 44 shots. He played the kind of game where sharks fans could say, "we just ran into a hot goalie and didn't get the puck bounces while the Pens did." Does that sound familiar?

I guess this definitely means Bylsma did a great job and gets all the credit. We should all ignore that the first line played better with Vitale than Dupuis in recent weeks. Definitely great job Bylsma for refusing to break up KCD when a guy that couldn't crack the lineup last year gave that line a boost. I guess I have to give Bylsma credit for putting Vitale there and not Adams.

The team does always come to life when one of their stars is out. I don't know if that's Bylsma or not. I'd like to think it is, but then I'd like to think he'd be able to get them to play constantly at that level if neither of them were hurt.

 

[dueling mullets]

Well that's the 34th Win with Despres in the lineup against 7 losses.

Is this a legit stat? I don't even know what to say if it is, and Bylsma has had him riding the pine for Oh-no Engo (he did score for the Sharks this game!)

 

[dueling mullets]

The 1st line was mediocre will Duper got hurt. Once JV filled in for him it looked much better.

The 2nd line was good because Neal and Meg made some great plays, further proving DBs incompetence by continuing to scratch Meg.

The 3rd line is a joke.

The 4th line was fine.

Des was one of our top 2 Dmen, again, further proving DBs incompetence by starting him in the AHL.

Engo scored on MAF and was pretty mediocre, Bort should have dressed for him, again.

Spot-on.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

The first goal was KCD on a deflection from an Orpik shot. I can count how many times I've been able to say that on my fingers and toes.

The second goal was a play by Despres and Megna, no one else. These are two players that should be in the lineup more than DB has them in. This goal makes Bylsma look worse for not having them in the lineup whenever possible.

The third goal was Kunitz Crosby Neal, which only became a line because Dupuis got hurt. Easy decision there, even for my mother.

The fourth goal was a PPG, enough said.

The fifth goal came with Kunitz - Crosby - Vitale on a weak shot by Tanger, after that line was getting offensive pressure the whole game.

I don't recall saying that the Pens lines worked by virtue of scoring a ton of multiplayer effort ES goals with DB's original line-up, because frankly, that's an unreasonable standard for this depleted roster playing arguably the best team in the league.

The Pens played a cohesive team game at both ends for 60 minutes, and it resulted in ES goals from different line combinations, including some much maligned ones. That's what's commendable, and decidedly not idiotic.

Fleury saved 44 shots. He played the kind of game where sharks fans could say, "we just ran into a hot goalie and didn't get the puck bounces while the Pens did." Does that sound familiar?

Except that would imply the Sharks outplayed them, and they didn't.

I guess this definitely means Bylsma did a great job and gets all the credit. We should all ignore that the first line played better with Vitale than Dupuis in recent weeks. Definitely great job Bylsma for refusing to break up KCD when a guy that couldn't crack the lineup last year gave that line a boost. I guess I have to give Bylsma credit for putting Vitale there and not Adams.

Regarding the present discussion, yes, you should.

The team does always come to life when one of their stars is out. I don't know if that's Bylsma or not. I'd like to think it is, but then I'd like to think he'd be able to get them to play constantly at that level if neither of them were hurt.

The Pens have played very good games against quality opponents all season long. This phenomenon is not exclusive to being down a star.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

I don't recall saying that the Pens lines worked by virtue of scoring a ton of multiplayer effort ES goals with DB's original line-up, because frankly, that's an unreasonable standard for this depleted roster playing arguably the best team in the league.

The Pens played a cohesive team game at both ends for 60 minutes, and it resulted in ES goals from different line combinations, including some much maligned ones. That's what's commendable, and decidedly not idiotic.

Except that would imply the Sharks outplayed them, and they didn't.

Regarding the present discussion, yes, you should.

The Pens have played very good games against quality opponents all season long. This phenomenon is not exclusive to being down a star.

Here's another question that hopefully you won't ignore, again:

If the Pesn played the exact same game, but MAF only makes 40 faves and they lose would you still be pimping the lines and declaring that the Sharks didn't outplay the Pens?

 

[Jaded-Fan]

Here's another question that hopefully you won't ignore, again:

If the Pesn played the exact same game, but MAF only makes 40 faves and they lose would you still be pimping the lines and declaring that the Sharks didn't outplay the Pens?

I will say this about Fleury. At the start of the year he was solidy rooted to the net, and it made him much less of a spaz. He has started to wander again, with Fleury like results. That is not something that I am happy about.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Here's another question that hopefully you won't ignore, again:

If the Pesn played the exact same game, but MAF only makes 40 faves and they lose would you still be pimping the lines and declaring that the Sharks didn't outplay the Pens?

Forgive me RG, I'm not trying to ignore you. There are a lot of people responding to my posts.

Yes, if the Pens played exactly the same game and Fleury only makes 40 saves, the lines still would have played well and the Sharks wouldn't have outplayed the Pens. I'm not sure why you think a goalie's performance would have any bearing on that.

 

[bambamcam4ever]

I believe it. I don't expect regional WC broadcasters to be very knowledgeable when it comes to EC teams.

The Sharks announcers aren't very knowledgeable in general. Two years ago, when SJ was playing Ottawa, they kept going on about how great Karlsson was for a 19-year-old rookie(This wasn't a simple mistake, they repeated it throughout the broadcast). Of course Karlsson was in his third season at age 21 and would win the Norris a few months later.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Apparently Pavelski and Couture don't know much either, I guess it's a San Jose thing.

 

[jmelm]

It may be a bit dewshy on my part, but one of the best things about Maatta for me is how much so many Flyer fans wanted him at the draft. I was reading their board and they literally were throwing their televisions through their windows when their pick came, right before ours, and they passed on him for a forward. I am sure it kills them now to see him doing so well, and for us of all teams. That is not the best part for me, having a player on the trajectory toward greatness is the best part. But what a nice cherry on top.

Well that would work (the part about the Flyers not getting Maatta), but they got Scott Laughton. Laughton has been F*ing amazing since he was drafted. They have a real winner in this kid. He is going to be a big-time player that is going to be a pain in the ass for us to play against for a lot of years. If the draft were re-done today, both Maatta and Laughton would be in the top 10-12 picks at least. Yes, Flyers fans would be thrilled if they got Maatta, but we would be thrilled if we got Laughton. So both teams lucked out.

the next time you say something honest about Despres, I'll have an orgy with supermodels. You've been the most negative on him from the start, and you've been wrong at every stage.

Despres has been better in Maatta in ever game they've played together. Maybe it doesn't keep up, but for you to just flat out say no combined with your history of using Despres as your personal litter box doesn't mean much, imo.

IcedCapp, it's so cute and funny that you think I'm a Despres hater. At no point have I ever wished and hoped for the best thing for this kid, but I've been a realist throughout his time since he was drafted, from watching him for many games in the Q, the A, and the NHL. All I have ever said about this guy is that he's got great potential and great tools, but that he's got some warts in his game. I NEVER said it was a given that those warts couldn't be worked out. Want to look at another player who has been getting slammed for the warts in his game of the recent couple of years, including this season: PK Subban. So look how far you can climb and how great you can be if you keep working on your game.


I am thrilled with Despres commitment to doing that, and he has been very solid since before coming up here, and they wouldn't have called him up if he wasn't playing solid down in WBS. But if you want proof that the PITTSBURGH PENGUINS (not jmelm or anyone else) value Maatta more than Despres, I'll give you 2 examples: 1) Maatta made the team over Despres this season, and not based on contractual issues, but on merit. 2) In the Penguins OWN prospect rankings (which is exactly where the hockey news gets their team-by-team top-10 rankings (this is a well-known fact) they had Maatta over Despres.


This is not an indictment against Despres, and nor does it preclude Despres from possibly one day even being a better player than Maatta (though I personally doubt that), but rather just an honest and realistic assessment, IMO, of the way each of these 2 players have played and progressed over the last few years since they've been drafted, and even before. I watched A LOT of Maatta during the year leading up to this draft because every chance I got, I turned on or PVRed every televised London game to watch Harry play. I was always impressed by Maatta, and never thought we would get him.


So I don't see how I'm using Despres as my litter box when I'm simply saying: Despres looks great, and Maatta looks exceptional. But sure, if it makes you feel better, keep trying to convince yourself that you are somehow more right than me and others who have a similar & realistic, honest assessment of these players -- such as the Penguins own scouting, coaching & management staffs..

 

[stardog]

this whole point counter point is a great example how one thing can be looked at by two different people and come up with two different conclusions/opinions. No wonder that Bylsma and management came out after the Bruins loss and said that they analyzed the series again and basically didn't see any flaws other than bad luck. The entire organization including the players picked up the theme and ran with it.

Does that make it right or wrong, I am not getting into that.

What bothers me is that one can now safely predict any reaction or any post from most of the posters, no matter what topic is, what game was in question. There is a preconcieved opinion and picture already formed and any new development will be molded, analyzed and filed in a way to fit already established views. Last night game is a great example. If you blindly support management and DB that was Pens great game against best hockey team in NHL, if you are a hater, they just got lucky.
Although I have to say this Board is by a large margin better than any other pens professional reporting outlet...

I agree that there is a pre conceived notion amongst individuals but not so much on the team as a whole. Those opinions range all over the place from various posters who have said the team played great, or bad or mediocre depending on whatever game they're viewing.
Now individual players? That's something different. For about 75% of the board or more, nothing Adams Glass or Dupuis does will ever be good enough. Regardless. For Letang or Orpik, it is the same thing with about 40-50%. At the same token for many of these people Sid, Martin and to a lesser extent Joe Vitale (for some odd reason) can hardly do no wrong. People have deep seeded opinions on them which have now become so preconceived that they watch these players with a negative eye. As such every mistake gets amplified while the positives are either ignored or dismissed. Sad but that is the way it is with the majority on here. I like almost all of the posters here. And I enjoy reading their opinions. And a lot of them are knowledgable and I tend to have respect for their opinions on mosT subjects. HOWEVER, when it comes to certain posters talking about certain players I simply ignore their opinion (despite their relative knowledge) simply because it has proven to be biased. Not a bad thing, just have to learn to wade through the hyperbole.
For me, I'm a fire Bylsma guy now and I thought the team both played well last night AND had a lot of puck luck. It doesn't have to necessarily be one or the other.

 

[DegenX]

Fleury on Couture quote: "Maybe he should have put it in then. What was he doing?" #Penguins @pgshelly

 

[Tasty Biscuits]

Hah. Love it.

 

[Ragamuffin Gunner]

Forgive me RG, I'm not trying to ignore you. There are a lot of people responding to my posts.

Yes, if the Pens played exactly the same game and Fleury only makes 40 saves, the lines still would have played well and the Sharks wouldn't have outplayed the Pens. I'm not sure why you think a goalie's performance would have any bearing on that.

Because you're using the final score to "prove" your point.

I'm 100% sure that if MAF let in 6 goals you would not have made that 1st pose declaring that you were right and everyone else was wrong, bolded and underlined.