Wierzbowski426
Registered User
There are worse players than Elias already in the hall. Quite a few.
He should be in.
He should be in.
Poor post. Brad played during Orr's 8 consecutive Norris run. Elias and Weber combined only won a Messier trophy and Weber has no SCs. They're Hall of Very Good, not HHoFers.
Yep was just runner up 6 times out of 8 years for the Norris.Neither did Brad Park
Thanks for reinforcing my point that your Park/Weber comparison is lame.Park lost Norris trophies to Orr and Potvin, not just to Orr. ...
I really like Weber a lot, he's just a tier below for me, he hasn't won anything major at the NHL level. Was always a great player, but just a step behind, Hall of very good for me.
Great posts. This is why he never won a Norris or a SC. He does not have a HHoF resume. Elias has no individual trophies.One of the most overrated players of his generation. He is a mean looking Canadian who hit hard and had a booming shot, but there are quite a few defensemen who were better than him when he played.
Everyone of them will get in. Shea Weber shouldn't but he will.
Weber and Elias no.
The rest all have a strong case.
I really like Weber a lot, he's just a tier below for me, he hasn't won anything major at the NHL level. Was always a great player, but just a step behind, Hall of very good for me.
My answer as well.
Weber will certainly get in, not many defensemen have his Norris voting record. If Keith gets in Weber has to.
Weber and Keith are on the same plane, just look at both of them in '14 when Keith won his NorrisHe'll get in, but he doesn't deserve it.
Keith a tier above when it comes to defensemen.
Weber and Keith are on the same plane, just look at both of them in '14 when Keith won his Norris
Keith scored as many goals as Weber had game winning goals that year, Weber had an additional 20.Disagree. As I already said in this thread, Weber is overrated.
Weber will certainly get in, not many defensemen have his Norris voting record. If Keith gets in Weber has to.
Keith also played with forwards who scored more than 50 points a year.Keith has 2 Norrises, a Conn Smythe, and 3 cups, none of which Weber has.
Keith also played with forwards who scored more than 50 points a year.
It's fine if you like Keith, Chara or Lidstrom more, but Weber is in the same conversation for best defenseman of the 10's.
Weber lost the Norris by the smallest margin in history, twice. He may not have won it, but he was within 20 votes of winning two Norris'. Plus he has a decade of top 10 finishes, it's hard to ignore, especially compared to other HHOF defensemen.That’s fine, but Ive still never seen a player enter the HHOF based on the voting record for an award he never actually managed to win.
Weber’s best argument is his international resume. Im not sure it's enough based on a lack of individual hardware but it's a better case than lots of Norris votes that never amounted to a win.
Keith was significantly better ?Weber will certainly get in, not many defensemen have his Norris voting record. If Keith gets in Weber has to.
Significantly better, no. Keith was a Norris level defenseman who happened to play on a dynasty in a big market, Weber was a Norris level defenseman who played for mostly middle of the pack teams in a small market with little media coverage until '17.Keith was significantly better ?
People will take whatever criteria they want and twist if so their opinion makes sense, like everyone here considers Zetterberg a lock, with 1 Stanley Cup and a Conn Smythe even though he failed to hit 1000 career points and Elias who won 2 Stanley Cups and eclipsed 1000 career points shouldn't even get in.Great posts. This is why he never won a Norris or a SC. He does not have a HHoF resume. Elias has no individual trophies.
Offensively Keith blew him out of the water. He was a better skater, although Weber was a more physical presence, I'd argue Keiths stick checking and defensive abilities were better.Significantly better, no. Keith was a Norris level defenseman who happened to play on a dynasty in a big market, Weber was a Norris level defenseman who played for mostly middle of the pack teams in a small market with little media coverage until '17.
Keith put up two 60 point seasons, while playing with several HHOFs or all-star caliber forwards, he never scored more than 14 goals a year. Ended with 106G 646p in over 1,200 games.Offensively Keith blew him out of the water. He was a better skater, although Weber was a more physical presence, I'd argue Keiths stick checking and defensive abilities were better.
Plenty of examples:Keith has 2 Norrises, a Conn Smythe, and 3 cups, none of which Weber has.
What player has gotten into the HHOF based on the voting record for an award he never even won?!
He put up 69 points in the 2010 season when they won their first cup, which were the 2nd most points by a D man and actually more than what Toews scored that season. The leading scorer that year scored 112, significantly lower scoring era, that would equate to over ppg in the modern NHL.Keith put up two 60 point seasons, while playing with several HHOFs or all-star caliber forwards, he never scored more than 14 goals a year. Ended with 106G 646p in over 1,200 games.
Weber led his team in scoring more than once, scored 14 or more goals 11 times, and had a career high 56 points, ending with 224G and 589 points in 1,000 games.
you may have an argument defensively, but to say Keith was significantly better offensively is wrong.
Thanks in large part to... Shea Weber.He put up 69 points in the 2010 season when they won their first cup, which were the 2nd most points by a D man and actually more than what Toews scored that season. The leading scorer that year scored 112, significantly lower scoring era, that would equate to over ppg in the modern NHL.
2 Norrisses, a conn smythe, 3 cups
His other "60 point season" was in 2014, again he was the 2nd highest scoring D man, behind only prime Karlsson, a year where Kane and Toews also only put up "60 point seasons"
Weber was paired with Ryan Suter for how many years ? Although the preds never had the offence the Hawks did, they were arguably the best defensive team and maybe had the best blue line in hockey.
Two cups and over 300 more points than anyone else in Devils history, more goals than 3rd and 4th placed guys put together. One of only two Czech players to score 1000 points.Elias is the only one that isn’t an absolute lock