If Detroit Drafts a Center in the First Round, Which Qualities Should They Look For Most?

[Winger98]

I went with competitiveness/playmaking, assuming the other qualities aren't then a marked negative. I mean, the guy can be the most intense guy in the league but if he skates like Ray Sheppard he's probably not going to make it far.

 

[ThankGord]

Competitiveness/Intensity - a la Larks.

Playmaking/Passing - somebody who can make the long dish to free up AA and set up a one-timer to Z.

 

[Hen Kolland]

That's true, I do 100% think there is a correlation between Hockey IQ and playmaking specifically.

In other cases, I definitely think it can be siloed. Can think of a lot of defenseman who are brilliant offensively and just get lost defensively... things like that. Sometimes it does not carry over into all aspects of their game.

What this entire experiment is going to boil down to is a player with hockey IQ and playmaking ability; I think that's obvious by the voting. I consider them to be too similar to be differentiated, so I diversified a touch.

I'd be more intrigued by this if we did the same process that we do to rank the prospects. Go one by one voting on what traits we value most. That way we would end up with a full list. I can tell you that I would vote hockey IQ and playmaking 1 and 2 before getting to competitiveness. But we'd get a full picture of the full toolbox, not just the first few tools.

 

[Frk It]

What this entire experiment is going to boil down to is a player with hockey IQ and playmaking ability; I think that's obvious by the voting. I consider them to be too similar to be differentiated, so I diversified a touch.

I'd be more intrigued by this if we did the same process that we do to rank the prospects. Go one by one voting on what traits we value most. That way we would end up with a full list. I can tell you that I would vote hockey IQ and playmaking 1 and 2 before getting to competitiveness. But we'd get a full picture of the full toolbox, not just the first few tools.

That could be interesting.

I typically agree on that 2nd to last sentence. It’s hard to rate these things in a vacuum. For example, I think Ryan Suzuki actually checks those 2 boxes you said better than a bunch of guys in the top 10, but he has other question marks.

Very difficult thing to balance out and weigh. I was thinking of maybe doing a top 5 thread (top 5 shot, top 5 skater, top 5 playmaker, etc.)

 

[JustJokinenAround]

There is mock draft going right now. This guy probably oilers fan .He pics for us Podkolzin, while Turcotte still available

they can't possibly take another winger top 6 can they? i hope not.

if its not byram it will probably be the best center available

 

[Martinez]

Pure stretch four. Jk

I’ll go competitiveness/intensity and playmaking/passing. Hmm, I guess that means I’m a Krebs guy.

 

[Hen Kolland]

That could be interesting.

I typically agree on that 2nd to last sentence. It’s hard to rate these things in a vacuum. For example, I think Ryan Suzuki actually checks those 2 boxes you said better than a bunch of guys in the top 10, but he has other question marks.

Very difficult thing to balance out and weigh. I was thinking of maybe doing a top 5 thread (top 5 shot, top 5 skater, top 5 playmaker, etc.)

Well of course, but it’s a philosophical discussion on what our preferences are at the end of the day.

Someone mentioned it in this thread already, but you could be the smartest, most gifted playmaker in hockey, but if you are among the worst skaters in the draft, and/or have an extremely diminutive stature, you probably find yourself knocked down a peg.

The reason we aren’t professional scouts is because we don’t really have a grasp on the weighting of these skills, even though we have our preferences in skills and traits.

 

[DRW204]

went with hockey IQ and Speed. really wanted to put competitiveness/intensity but i think as the NHL game gets faster and faster, fast and smart players will be sought after. i think with high iq and speed it a good combo of a 2-way fwd that can put up pts

edit - should have probably went with skating dexterity

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

Went with hockey IQ and Skating dexterity which I took to mean acceleration, and agility but not straight line top speed. Playmaking was strongly in contention.

These are my two preferences as well. As others have pointed out, hockey IQ is what allows you to be a great playmaker. The physical act of passing the puck is a super small part of playmaking. The larger party is knowing where pressure is coming from, where your teammates are, the pace at which players are moving (both defenders and your teammates), how to create time and space, etc. That to me all falls within Hockey IQ. If you have super strong hockey IQ, it is almost impossible not to be an above average passer.

I am a skating snob and I admit it. No position is as demanding from a skating perspective as center is. If you aren't going to cheat defensively, you need to have the athleticism to make up a ton of ground in offensive transition. Strong skating centers also allow you to move the puck up the center of the defensive zone more consistently (we saw this a lot at the tail end of Babs' tenure) and make transitioning the puck easier. If a center is not a threat to transport the puck, the whole breakout is easier to defend. Contemporary defensive zone systems are also more demanding on centers. Now I don't think players need to have elite top-end speed to play center, but they do need well above-average explosiveness.

 

[Frk It]

These are my two preferences as well. As others have pointed out, hockey IQ is what allows you to be a great playmaker. The physical act of passing the puck is a super small part of playmaking. The larger party is knowing where pressure is coming from, where your teammates are, the pace at which players are moving (both defenders and your teammates), how to create time and space, etc. That to me all falls within Hockey IQ. If you have super strong hockey IQ, it is almost impossible not to be an above average passer.

I am a skating snob and I admit it. No position is as demanding from a skating perspective as center is. If you aren't going to cheat defensively, you need to have the athleticism to make up a ton of ground in offensive transition. Strong skating centers also allow you to move the puck up the center of the defensive zone more consistently (we saw this a lot at the tail end of Babs' tenure) and make transitioning the puck easier. If a center is not a threat to transport the puck, the whole breakout is easier to defend. Contemporary defensive zone systems are also more demanding on centers. Now I don't think players need to have elite top-end speed to play center, but they do need well above-average explosiveness.

Great breakdown here, definitely agree.

 

[Hen Kolland]

These are my two preferences as well. As others have pointed out, hockey IQ is what allows you to be a great playmaker. The physical act of passing the puck is a super small part of playmaking. The larger party is knowing where pressure is coming from, where your teammates are, the pace at which players are moving (both defenders and your teammates), how to create time and space, etc. That to me all falls within Hockey IQ. If you have super strong hockey IQ, it is almost impossible not to be an above average passer.

I am a skating snob and I admit it. No position is as demanding from a skating perspective as center is. If you aren't going to cheat defensively, you need to have the athleticism to make up a ton of ground in offensive transition. Strong skating centers also allow you to move the puck up the center of the defensive zone more consistently (we saw this a lot at the tail end of Babs' tenure) and make transitioning the puck easier. If a center is not a threat to transport the puck, the whole breakout is easier to defend. Contemporary defensive zone systems are also more demanding on centers. Now I don't think players need to have elite top-end speed to play center, but they do need well above-average explosiveness.

This is a great write up, and is the exact reason why I'm as high on Veleno as I am. I think he combines the super important traits that a center can have into a nice package. He can skate with the best of them, he's an intelligent player, committed to his craft, and is driven to improve his game. I believe he can develop into a very good impact center for the Wings. Same applies to Larkin, and obviously we are seeing that come to fruition. Honestly that mold of player will never be a bad pick, in my opinion.

 

[DetroitRed]

I went with competitiveness/playmaking, assuming the other qualities aren't then a marked negative. I mean, the guy can be the most intense guy in the league but if he skates like Ray Sheppard he's probably not going to make it far.

That made me laugh. In a good way.

 

[DetroitRed]

What this entire experiment is going to boil down to is a player with hockey IQ and playmaking ability; I think that's obvious by the voting. I consider them to be too similar to be differentiated, so I diversified a touch.

I'd be more intrigued by this if we did the same process that we do to rank the prospects. Go one by one voting on what traits we value most. That way we would end up with a full list. I can tell you that I would vote hockey IQ and playmaking 1 and 2 before getting to competitiveness. But we'd get a full picture of the full toolbox, not just the first few tools.

Well, I think having hockey IQ can lend itself to everything but it's different than just making the good pass. It's also being able to read the situation and get open for the pass. That's how I would differentiate it from simple play making. You know, knowing that your teammate is going to need to send the puck around the rim, and being there to collect it on time rather than letting the puck escape outside your opponent's zone (which is one of my biggest pet peeve's, by the way) and possibly lead to a face-off outside the zone or to a turnover. I suppose I could have called it awareness/hockey IQ.

Hockey IQ to me is very high on the list. But I also think they don't ask how, they ask how many applies. If a guy is scoring 45 goals a season, or is winning Selke trophies, I don't care how he is getting it done. Though it would be strange if a guy was doing that without good hockey IQ/awareness.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

This is a great write up, and is the exact reason why I'm as high on Veleno as I am. I think he combines the super important traits that a center can have into a nice package. He can skate with the best of them, he's an intelligent player, committed to his craft, and is driven to improve his game. I believe he can develop into a very good impact center for the Wings. Same applies to Larkin, and obviously we are seeing that come to fruition. Honestly that mold of player will never be a bad pick, in my opinion.

I think Veleno is the best excuse for taking someone you aren't totally convinced will end up being a center at the pro game. Dach isn't really my type of player stylistically, but I would be comfortable with taking him because I know the Veleno has, as you point out, a lot of traits that project really well for the center position at the NHL level.

 

[lilidk]

Hockey iq , playmaking and passing are leading so far . Its means we should draft Dach .

 

[Shaman464]

I think Veleno is the best excuse for taking someone you aren't totally convinced will end up being a center at the pro game. Dach isn't really my type of player stylistically, but I would be comfortable with taking him because I know the Veleno has, as you point out, a lot of traits that project really well for the center position at the NHL level.

A kid which nearly every team passed on once, and hasn't played a pro game isn't a reason to skip on someone like Turcotte or Dach who are much more likely to be top centers.

 

[Wyzer Plan]

I think we have plenty of goal scorers we don't have that slippery playmaker that can feed the pucks to the goal scorers. Zetterberg and Datsuyk were amazing at it even nyquist was pretty good. But we really don't have a good set up guy anymore.

 

[DetroitRed]

In order of poularity, so far:

1. Awareness (hockey IQ)
2. Passing
3. Intensity
4. Scoring
5. Speed
6. Skating agility
7. Stick-handling & Defensive Prowess

I'm not sure Dach is the guy with the best awareness (Hockey IQ), but Dach is probably the best passer/playmaker. I would put Dach's name next to our #2 on the list (passing) for sure. Does Dach have the best hockey IQ of the bunch?

For intensity, I think it's between Turcotte and Krebs.

For scoring, Cozens and Turcotte.

I'm not sure on speed, I would guess Krebs. Although Cozens would beat him in skating dexterity, I think.

For stick handling, I think there's a number of good options. Cozens and Dach are both in that mix.

For defensive game, I think you have to mention Dach and Turcotte.

 

[Bench]

In order of poularity, so far:

1. Awareness (hockey IQ)
2. Passing
3. Intensity
4. Scoring
5. Speed
6. Skating agility
7. Stick-handling & Defensive Prowess

I'm not sure Dach is the guy with the best awareness (Hockey IQ), but Dach is probably the best passer/playmaker. I would put Dach's name next to our #2 on the list (passing) for sure. Does Dach have the best hockey IQ of the bunch?

For intensity, I think it's between Turcotte and Krebs.

For scoring, Cozens and Turcotte.

I'm not sure on speed, I would guess Krebs. Although Cozens would beat him in skating dexterity, I think.

For stick handling, I think there's a number of good options. Cozens and Dach are both in that mix.

For defensive game, I think you have to mention Dach and Turcotte.

All of this is why I think Dach is gone before #6.

 

[DetroitRed]

All of this is why I think Dach is gone before #6.

Yeah, my thoughts are that if Detroit wants one of the righty centers (Dach and Cozens), I'm totally on board with it, but I doubt they will have their pick of which one they like most. They will have to take whoever is left.

 

[SirloinUB]

For me I don't really care about attributes or position. Simply put we need to draft the guy we believe will have the most impact over the next 10 years. We don't have enough impact players to be worrying about whether our draft pick is more of a methodical playmaker, stick wizard or a highly competitive speedster.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

If I only get two hockey IQ and intensity/compete level. If I got a third it would be skating/speed.

The reality is you're evaluating all of these so while it is fun in a vaccumm there is a balance.

Being elite in something is the goal. For instance developing Rasmussen into a big goal scoring power forward is what serves him best. Other guys are going to bring other things.

However like the Wings have traditionally I value smart hockey players with big work ethics. I have said it before around here but beyond just the requisite skill to be a NHL guy, consistency is probably the second most important element in having a long career as a star. The star players that maintain for a decade are smart and have incredible drive to get better. Larkin is the current guy you would list for our team in this regard.

 

[Hen Kolland]

A kid which nearly every team passed on once, and hasn't played a pro game isn't a reason to skip on someone like Turcotte or Dach who are much more likely to be top centers.

Yeah, because being passed on in the draft was a death sentence for literally hundreds of players....

I know your tendencies are come in aggressively pessimistic, but come on man. His point is Veleno proving that he was worth significantly more than the 30th overall makes you feel a little better if you draft someone like Cozens who may be a center or may not. It's just a safety net because Veleno is virtually guaranteed to be a center in the NHL, and since we are discussing prospects, everything is taken with a grain of salt to what extent players can impact a team. If Veleno had played a full year with Drummondville in his draft year, there's a legitimate chance he's right up with Kotkaniemi and Hayton as centers drafted in the top 10. For you to suggest that Turcotte or Dach have a "much more likely" chance to be a top center, you're just spewing hate and looking to start arguments.

 

[PelagicJoe]

I voted scoring and playmaking.

 

[Rzombo4 prez]

A kid which nearly every team passed on once, and hasn't played a pro game isn't a reason to skip on someone like Turcotte or Dach who are much more likely to be top centers.

Veleno is the argument for taking Dach, not for passing on Dach. Even if Dach ends up out on the wing because his boots never come around, we still have a prospect in the organization with some capacity to develop into a top-six center. While we absolutely want a center at 6th, the organization won't be crushed if the player we take at 6th gets moved to the wing long term. Again, it would not be ideal, but would not be crushing either.