OT: If Dallas Upsets Colorado, Does Jim Nill Get Some Credit? (mod note post #8)

[deca guard]

and all those years i was thinking bedards a problem because we never devloped a goalie , but in reality it was holland whom couldnt draft a goalie . or a dman for that matter

 

[Bench]

and all those years i was thinking bedards a problem because we never devloped a goalie , but in reality it was holland whom couldnt draft a goalie . or a dman for that matter

I mean you can draw a straight line to when the Wings lost Lidstrom and got bad to the goalie sv% in Detroit. And similarly you can draw a straight line to the Dallas defense improving significantly and bringing in Bishop to it improving.

I'm sure Bedard is doing a fine job, but there's a lot of other factors at play there. Some far, far more obvious than the goalie coach.

 

[Henkka]

And now they are rolling with Khudobin. Another late-age product from Bedard. Bedard was also the guy who did Osgood's miraclous second coming after 2007.

It's easy to see the good goaltending coach, when the guy is changing on the net, but results stay good. Just like NY Islanders now with Mitch Korn. Lehner, Greiss, Varlamov, guys come and go and all do good. And same guys went from bad to good under him.

Suddenly, at same time, the worse days are starting at Washington, where Korn formerly was. Guy like Holtby has "lost" everything.

 

[Henkka]

I mean you can draw a straight line to when the Wings lost Lidstrom and got bad to the goalie sv% in Detroit. And similarly you can draw a straight line to the Dallas defense improving significantly and bringing in Bishop to it improving.

Not really. On Lidström's last 4 seasons, our SV% was 10th worst.

It went a bit better after Lidström retired. Then collapsed after 2016.

 

[Winger98]

And now they are rolling with Khudobin. Another late-age product from Bedard. Bedard was also the guy who did Osgood's miraclous second coming after 2007.

It's easy to see the good goaltending coach, when the guy is changing on the net, but results stay good. Just like NY Islanders now with Mitch Korn. Lehner, Greiss, Varlamov, guys come and go and all do good. And same guys went from bad to good under him.

Suddenly, at same time, the worse days are starting at Washington, where Korn formerly was. Guy like Holtby has "lost" everything.

Greiss and Varlamov both have career .915 sv% and Lehner's is .918 These guys weren't bad goalies before they got to NYI, and Lehner looked pretty good since leaving.

And where are you getting this:

Red Wings general SV% (from 2016-17 to 2020) 89.87% (NHL-worst for last 4 seasons)

I'm looking at the Wings goalie stats from those years, adding the saves made, dividing by shots faced, and getting .903 for a sv%. I don't really disagree that Salejko is maybe just not a great goalie coach, but I'm not sure I put Howard's falling apart on his shoulders (maybe on Dunkin Donut's...). Coreau/Pickard/Comrie/Fulcher put up bad numbers here probably because they are bad goalies.

 

[Henkka]

Have to give credit for Jim Nill.

Dallas has taken more Finns in recent years, exactly at right time, when your new generation is going to be the best ever.

Lindell is one of best shut-down guys ib NHL and Heiskanen is turning to be something special. Maybe finnish Lidström. Hintz is going to be middle6 center (after Aho and BArkov) at World Cup level, and this Kiviranta is just depth.

Kiviranta still a huge free agent, from nowhere. Regular Liiga player.

Just like Brome, which Yzerman signed. Could be the hattrick socring guy at some day. Or maybe not. Who really knows!

 

[Henkka]

Last two players to record a Game 7 HAT TRICK:

Wayne Gretzky - 1993
Joel Kiviranta - 2020

 

[Go Wings]

Colorado's number 1 goalie being hurt gets the credit.

 

[Henkka]

Colorado's number 1 goalie being hurt gets the credit.

Pretty much Dallas 1 goalie was also hurt.

 

[Go Wings]

Pretty much Dallas 1 goalie was also hurt.

True but Dallas has an excellent backup, Colorado less. But Dallas once fair and square so good for them. It should be a good series against Vegas.

 

[MBH]

Not really. On Lidström's last 4 seasons, our SV% was 10th worst.

It went a bit better after Lidström retired. Then collapsed after 2016.

We'd been sitting around 17-21 range for quite awhile, except for 12-13.
years and then Datsyuk retired and we fell sharply.

10-11. 90.57. 19th
11-12. 90.96. 18th - Last Lidstrom season.
12-13. 91.68, 9th
13-14. 90.80, 21st.
14-15- 90.91, 21st
15-16. 91,02 17th - Last Datsyuk season
16-17. 90.28, 25th
17-18. 90.28. 24th - Last Zetterberg season.
18-19. 90.15. 22nd - Last Kronwall season
19-20. 88.63 31st

Basically, we were a 90.6 to 91.0 team.
Then we became a 90.3 team when Datsyuk retired.
And then the wheels completely fell off last year - mostly owed to Jimmy Howard's historically awful season.

Bernier is an OK goalie. He gave us 90.7 last season and 90.4 the season before

 

[TheMule93]

save% is pretty irrelevant, so many external factors influence it. Look at GSAA.

 

[MBH]

Welp, I had Vegas in 5, so...
Jesus.
The way the Stars keep winning when I call for them to lose reminds me of Vegas the year they went to the final.

 

[14ari13]

They have a sneaky great blueline outside of Miro, and that's really been the difference.

Signing Klingberg very early to his contract was brilliant. He's way outperformed that deal. It was a risk at the time, but Nill seemed to know what he had. All eyes are on Miro, but Klingberg is really the 1B on that roster.

And then you have Lindell as probably one of the most underrated defenders in the league. He's basically everything we wanted DeKeyser to be.

You combine a great blueline with great goaltending and then if Jamie Benn decides to show up they can beat any team in the league. But you know, Benn deciding to show up is always a dubious prospect.

Jamie Benn is the reality of how some of you guys viewed Franzen. Literally the most frustrating player I've followed in a long time.

Eh, so the players can just decide when they want to turn on or off? Then I do not see any reason why they don't turn it on every game and be a Gretzky each one.

Or is it they don't have it what it takes too be consistent?

 

[Avery Rule]

I would normally be going for Tampa with the teams left right now, but my gf is a huge Dallas Stars fan, and I do like Ben Bishop and Jamie Benn.
So between those two teams I will be happy.

On a side note she gets pretty violent when she gives me crap about how bad the wings are and I remind her that her hockey team and football team (Cowboys) have not won anything since the 90s....

 

[Bench]

Eh, so the players can just decide when they want to turn on or off? Then I do not see any reason why they don't turn it on every game and be a Gretzky each one.

Or is it they don't have it what it takes too be consistent?

I'm questioning Jamie Benn's commitment and attitude, yes.

Jim Lites, Stars CEO (and former Wings front office guy), literally called him out (and Seguin's) "they are f***ing horseshit" to the media less than two years ago. He did so to try to light a fire under his ass and was defending the work Jim Nill has done.

What I'm trying to say is me questioning Jamie Benn's efforts isn't exactly a hot take when the Stars front office already beat me to the punch.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

I will be very surprised if the Stars win with the way they are currently playing.

You can't rely on your goaltender this much and expect to win more than you lose.

 

[Bench]

I will be very surprised if the Stars win with the way they are currently playing.

You can't rely on your goaltender this much and expect to win more than you lose.

Yeah, they are giving up way too many chances. They've got away with it so far, but it's hard to imagine that luck holding.

That said, they've created a little cushion for themselves. A Stars-Lightning finals is kind of a fun idea, so I hope that happens.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Yeah, they are giving up way too many chances. They've got away with it so far, but it's hard to imagine that luck holding.

That said, they've created a little cushion for themselves. A Stars-Lightning finals is kind of a fun idea, so I hope that happens.

Is it the best way to win? Nope. You're right it probably won't hold

But all they have to do is win two more games and they're onto the next round. It's the playoffs baby, survive and move on. If Khudobin is locked in... ride that wave. It's why winning the Cup is such an accomplishment. Building a great team with dominant performances and you can be completely undone by pure luck.

2009 Cup Finals the Penguins had one assist between Malkin and Crosby from Game 5 on. They won the series on the strength of Tyler Kennedy and Maxime Talbot. Hell, that game 7, the Wings probably win it 9 out of 10 times being at home. But that wasn't what happened that night.

 

[MBH]

Hot goalies have been known to hold up in playoff series.

 

[MBH]

Jim Nill is in the cup finals.
Wow.
Perhaps against a team largely built by Yzerman.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

Jim Nill is in the cup finals.
Wow.
Perhaps against a team largely built by Yzerman.

But you know, he doesn't deserve any credit. Because they weren't a team built to win.

 

[MBH]

But you know, he doesn't deserve any credit. Because they weren't a team built to win.

Who?
Yzerman?
Nill?

Can't figure out who you're being sarcastic against or why.

 

[14ari13]

I will be very surprised if the Stars win with the way they are currently playing.

You can't rely on your goaltender this much and expect to win more than you lose.

It held.

 

[MBH]