Idea for new Memorial Cup format

[IcemanTBI]

I think it's high time that the CHL makes changes to the Memorial Cup format. The idea of 3 league champions plus the host team just doesn't really work for me. Number 1, I have always wanted to see more teams in the cup. Number 2, as we have seen with Windsor this year, Its not exactly fair that a team that gets bounced from Round 1 of the playoffs gets a legitimate shot at winning the biggest trophy in Junior Hockey. I do agree, there has to be a host team, and that team does get in, but at least make it more challenging for them and if they do win, legitimizes it. Anyways, here is my idea of what the CHL should do, and I believe this would be the best format for the Memorial Cup.

The format would be as such:

1. All League Finalists get into the memorial cup, plus host team. That would turn it from a 4 team to a 7 team tournament.

2. The Cup would consist of two groups. A "main" group and a "qualifier" group.

3. League Champions would get a bye to the main group.

4. Runners up plus host would be play in a qualifying group. Qualifying group would play round robin, top team in qualifying group plays in the main group with the 3 league champions.

5. Main group would play in a round robin, tie breaker game, final, in other words, as they play today.

6. In the event the host wins their respective league championship, they would get the Bye and their spot in the qualifying round would go to the team in the hosts league with the MOST points over the regular season.

7. In the even the host is the league runner up i.e. makes the league final but loses, they would be placed in the qualifying round and the host spot would go to the team in the hosts league with the MOST points.

I think this would be a very fair way to go about things. Number 1, the host team would have a tougher challenge. That means if the host were to win by going through the back door, at least it legitimizes it a bit more. Number 2, the argument that it would make each league's championship less meaningful is mute, as winning the league championship gives you a bye, and thus a much easier way to winning the cup.

Well that's my idea anyways. Let me know what you think of this.

Click to read more...

 

[EvenSteven]

I think it's high time that the CHL makes changes to the Memorial Cup format. The idea of 3 league champions plus the host team just doesn't really work for me. Number 1, I have always wanted to see more teams in the cup. Number 2, as we have seen with Windsor this year, Its not exactly fair that a team that gets bounced from Round 1 of the playoffs gets a legitimate shot at winning the biggest trophy in Junior Hockey. I do agree, there has to be a host team, and that team does get in, but at least make it more challenging for them and if they do win, legitimizes it. Anyways, here is my idea of what the CHL should do, and I believe this would be the best format for the Memorial Cup.

The format would be as such:

1. All League Finalists get into the memorial cup, plus host team. That would turn it from a 4 team to a 7 team tournament.

2. The Cup would consist of two groups. A "main" group and a "qualifier" group.

3. League Champions would get a bye to the main group.

4. Runners up plus host would be play in a qualifying group. Qualifying group would play round robin, top team in qualifying group plays in the main group with the 3 league champions.

5. Main group would play in a round robin, tie breaker game, final, in other words, as they play today.

6. In the event the host wins their respective league championship, they would get the Bye and their spot in the qualifying round would go to the team in the hosts league with the MOST points over the regular season.

7. In the even the host is the league runner up i.e. makes the league final but loses, they would be placed in the qualifying round and the host spot would go to the team in the hosts league with the MOST points.

I think this would be a very fair way to go about things. Number 1, the host team would have a tougher challenge. That means if the host were to win by going through the back door, at least it legitimizes it a bit more. Number 2, the argument that it would make each league's championship less meaningful is mute, as winning the league championship gives you a bye, and thus a much easier way to winning the cup.

Well that's my idea anyways. Let me know what you think of this.

I would suggest that instead of adding the team with the MOST points in the regular season, you go with the team with the most points in the regular season among the teams in the host league that made it to the third round.

That way, in the event a team with the MOST points in the regular season not among the finalists is eliminated in the 1st or 2nd round, you don't have a cold team sitting around weeks waiting to play in the tourney and they likely don't deserve a trip to the Cup anyway. Also, it rewards a team for at least getting to the third round of the playoffs. That team would know who it is going into the third round. If it were this year, both third round opponents in the west would go.

 

[OMG67]

I think it's high time that the CHL makes changes to the Memorial Cup format. The idea of 3 league champions plus the host team just doesn't really work for me. Number 1, I have always wanted to see more teams in the cup. Number 2, as we have seen with Windsor this year, Its not exactly fair that a team that gets bounced from Round 1 of the playoffs gets a legitimate shot at winning the biggest trophy in Junior Hockey. I do agree, there has to be a host team, and that team does get in, but at least make it more challenging for them and if they do win, legitimizes it. Anyways, here is my idea of what the CHL should do, and I believe this would be the best format for the Memorial Cup.

The format would be as such:

1. All League Finalists get into the memorial cup, plus host team. That would turn it from a 4 team to a 7 team tournament.

2. The Cup would consist of two groups. A "main" group and a "qualifier" group.

3. League Champions would get a bye to the main group.

4. Runners up plus host would be play in a qualifying group. Qualifying group would play round robin, top team in qualifying group plays in the main group with the 3 league champions.

5. Main group would play in a round robin, tie breaker game, final, in other words, as they play today.

6. In the event the host wins their respective league championship, they would get the Bye and their spot in the qualifying round would go to the team in the hosts league with the MOST points over the regular season.

7. In the even the host is the league runner up i.e. makes the league final but loses, they would be placed in the qualifying round and the host spot would go to the team in the hosts league with the MOST points.

I think this would be a very fair way to go about things. Number 1, the host team would have a tougher challenge. That means if the host were to win by going through the back door, at least it legitimizes it a bit more. Number 2, the argument that it would make each league's championship less meaningful is mute, as winning the league championship gives you a bye, and thus a much easier way to winning the cup.

Well that's my idea anyways. Let me know what you think of this.

So, the Memorial Cup would be two weeks?

If the Host team were a Champion then just make it a six team tournament. PRoblem is, the only reason to change the format is to penalize the Host for not being a League Champ. In this instance, the current format would be fine. Ironic really.

 

[EvenSteven]

So, the Memorial Cup would be two weeks?

I don't see an issue with that really. It's all about the $$$ with Branch and co.

 

[EvenSteven]

So, the Memorial Cup would be two weeks?

If the Host team were a Champion then just make it a six team tournament. PRoblem is, the only reason to change the format is to penalize the Host for not being a League Champ. In this instance, the current format would be fine. Ironic really.

I think there are other reasons to change the tourney. There has been talk of an NCAA type sweet 16 or elite 8 type format over the last few years. Reasons for a format change in that instance would be, of course, $$$ and perhaps trying to grow the tourney and turn it into something along the lines of what the NCAA does. No doubt it wouldn't hit the same magnitude as the NCAA March Madness, but it would grow the tourney to something much more than it is now I'd think.

 

[WaW]

It's a broken tournament that fans of 45~ CHL teams don't really care about as they have little to no chance of ever getting there. At fault for this Sportsnet and the CHL executives.

If you want this tournament to actually mean something to all junior hockey fans than a change is certainly required. I like the idea of an 8 or 16 team event, and there are plenty of creative ways to get there.

I'd go with this:

8 teams, both finalists in each league, and 2 hosts; one from each conference of a league (or 2 different divisions during Quebec's rotation).

Year 1: 4 OHL teams, 2 WHL teams, 2 QMJHL teams
Year 2: 4 WHL teams, 2 QMJHL teams, 2 OHL teams
Year 3: 4 QMJHL teams, 2 OHL teams, 2 WHL teams

If the host is a league finalist, then the conference finalist they beat subs in.

2 Divisions of 4 with a round-robin (ie. OHL host year);

Division 1:
West Host
East Finalist
WHL Runner-Up
QMJHL Champ

Division 2:
East Host
West Finalist
WHL Champ
QMJHL Runner-up

Semis and finals (all in one pre-determined host city):
1st Div 1 vs 2nd Div 2
1st Div 2 vs 2nd Div 1

 

[jason2020]

Get away from having it in one city go to 6 teams double round robin so each team would get 5 home games and yes would have to play 5 road games.

 

[NV]

Just get rid of it. It drives me nuts that more emphasis is placed on winning a 4 game single-elimination tournament of Champions than on defeating the teams you play in a 68 game schedule and 4 best of 7 playoff series.

 

[AttackSound]

Unfortunately no matter which way the theories go on how to reformat the Memorial Cup it still leaves a lot of scenarios.

As a long time OHL fan in this league I've always thought that if you got rid of the host city part of the Mem Cup would play a bigger part in levelling the playing field that way no one team would get a bye to the tournament and that the best teams would competed for their spot would be in. This would be very similar to how the OHL Cup works for all the midget teams that play to get spotted by OHL scouts.

In that case all three leagues would pick the largest venue that didn't have a CHL member team in there as a tenant and work make all teams work for their spot. So it would come down to this once out of every 3 years the OHL would still play host to the tournament but each conference winner would be in. This would go as well for the WHL. As for Québec league the top club would play hosts while the 17 remaining clubs would play a best of 4 mini playoff with with a tiebreaker game added if need be where the best record would move on to play in the tournament. The only downside is that unless the Q put another expansion team in to bring it back up to 18 teams in which they can have to conferences of 9 and and the top two conferences alternate like their supposed to now a days

 

[EON]

This actually a pretty good idea and quite creative Iceman, wouldn't mind seeing this implemented. I do think however that if the host team wins their league, the extra slot should go to the team with the highest points in the regular season from the final 4 in that league (aka, the "3rd place team").

Just get rid of it. It drives me nuts that more emphasis is placed on winning a 4 game single-elimination tournament of Champions than on defeating the teams you play in a 68 game schedule and 4 best of 7 playoff series.

I have to disagree there. I care much more about the Otters winning the OHL title, the Memorial Cup would just be a cherry on top.

 

[RayzorIsDull]

I think there are other reasons to change the tourney. There has been talk of an NCAA type sweet 16 or elite 8 type format over the last few years. Reasons for a format change in that instance would be, of course, $$$ and perhaps trying to grow the tourney and turn it into something along the lines of what the NCAA does. No doubt it wouldn't hit the same magnitude as the NCAA March Madness, but it would grow the tourney to something much more than it is now I'd think.

March Madness is successful because millions upon millions of people will watch on tv and they have a network willing to spend billions to televise it. Millions of people won't do that for every game of a CHL tournament. Companies would never pay for the ad space and sportsnet wouldn't pay the extra money needed to show it. They make more money off a single Blue Jays game than they do for a CHL hockey game.

 

[OMG67]

I think there are other reasons to change the tourney. There has been talk of an NCAA type sweet 16 or elite 8 type format over the last few years. Reasons for a format change in that instance would be, of course, $$$ and perhaps trying to grow the tourney and turn it into something along the lines of what the NCAA does. No doubt it wouldn't hit the same magnitude as the NCAA March Madness, but it would grow the tourney to something much more than it is now I'd think.

I can see the lure of a 16 team tourney but the Memorial Cup is already mid to late May. We shouldn't have Junior hockey going into June. Also, with the way playoffs are structured in four rounds, who do you invite? Hypothetically speaking, you invite the top 16 ranked teams. Some of those teams could be out in round one of the playoffs and those teams go home for 6 weeks and then come back for a tournament?

I am not sure this is a great idea from a logistical perspective.

The existing Memorial Cup format has worked for decades. It generates a lot of interest and revenue. I am not agaisnt change but I am against change for change sake.

The NCAA does not do four rounds of seven game series to determine a Division Chmp with all the division champs meeting in the Frozen 8. If the CHL were to adopt that sort of tournament, they would really need to alter their current playoff format and shorten it to allow for the time it would take to extend a Memorial Cup format.

At the end of the day the reason why "most" junior fans do not like the existing Memorial Cup format is because the Host team often doesn't win their way into the tournament. And this year we see Windsor as the Host and they are out in the first round. They will now wait for six weeks for the OHL playoffs to finish and then will gear up for the Memorial Cup. If Windsor were to win it, people will say they are not deserving winners because they won 3 playoff games and everyone else int he tournament won 16 games. I get it. But, the reality is what it is.

The event is there to generate revenue so ex-players can sue the league for wages!

 

[IcemanTBI]

This actually a pretty good idea and quite creative Iceman, wouldn't mind seeing this implemented. I do think however that if the host team wins their league, the extra slot should go to the team with the highest points in the regular season from the final 4 in that league (aka, the "3rd place team").

This would work as well, whoever has the highest point total from the two losers of the Conference finals is a good idea.

I would just like to see the tournament expanded. I understand you can't do a full blown NCAA style tournament, that wouldn't work. But i think moving from 4 to 7 teams would give this tournament more prestige and more meaningful.

 

[OMG67]

The Memorial Cup Final is on May 28th this year. The Memorial Cup consists of eight games provided there is no tie-breaker. The fairness comes from having a round robin to determine a form of seeding. The top team goes to the final, the 2nd and 3rd place play a semi final and the 4th team is eliminated. I like that format because it is not a single elimination. Every team will play at least three games.

If we were to adopt a 16 team bracket tournament, it would be a single elimination tournament. Each team is only guaranteed one game. In fact, only four teams would play three games and twelve teams would play either one or two games. It really seems like a waste. How would the CHL make any money on this? Fly 8 teams out to wherever and put them up in a hotel to play one game? There is no way that model would work fiscally.

How would you broadcast the games? Would round one take place all ont he same day? Would it be over two or three days? It then doesn't become national. There would be an element of regionality to it. That goes completely agaisnt the concept of it being a National broadcast.

The only real negative of the current format is the lack of a guarantee of the quality of the Host team. The funny part is not all of the league Champions are of the same quality. One of the league champs is usually a doormat anyway. Imagine how bad the finalists would be? Imagine if the Petes or Mississauga were to be in that tournament instead of the 2nd best OHL team? I could argue that the Eastern rep is the 6th best OHL team.

No matter how you reformat the event, there will always be negatives.

 

[Sidekick]

This topic is also the subject of a recent thread in the general ‘Canadian Junior Hockey’ section.

Here is the link: http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=2189517

For your convenience, I have copied the content into this post (the thread didn’t get too much traction, but – possibly? – had some good ideas)

Thread title: Could the Memorial Cup succeed without the host team bye?

End on a Hinote:

“Obviously the fans in the host city want to see their home team in the Memorial Cup tournament. But as someone who's home teams lone Memorial Cup championship came as a result of them hosting the tournament (They lost in the WHL semi finals), it feels somewhat like a tainted victory.

Would fans in the host city still show up if, hypothetically, instead of the host city getting an automatic berth into the tournament, they hold a wild card game for the two teams with the best records out of the three conference losers to play to decide the fourth team in the tournament?"

Sidekick:

"I am personally not a fan of having the host team get a pass into the Memorial Cup, but I completely understand the business behind it.â€

No, I really don't think it would be financially successful. You kinda need the host team there.
Although that doesn't mean there isn't an alternative option available. I've been thinking about potential options for a while, when bored, because (as I understand) the CHL has at least some desire to open the tournament beyond 4 teams. Now I've kept in mind the need to still have a host team, and since in my opinion the most intriguing games are the ones between league winners (therefore, a WJC-like pool a/b is out as it would split up the league winners)....and here is what I've come up with.

Pool A - the 3 league winners
Pool B - host team, 2 league finalists (not-host league).

Each team plays two games, then playoffs would look like this...
Wildcard Wednesday - 3rd place Pool A vs. 2nd place Pool B
Thursday (Semi-Final 1) - 2nd place Pool A vs. 1st place Pool B
Friday (Semi-Final 2) - Wildcard winner vs. 1st place Pool A
Sunday - final

So no team from Pool A can get eliminated until their 3rd game, which as champions earns them this.

RR schedule would look something like this (using the 2014 cup as a example)
Fri: London (host) vs. Portland (WHL finalist)
Sat: Guelph (OHL champ) vs. Val d'Or (Q champ)
Sun afternoon: London vs. Baie Comeau (Q finalist)
Sun night: Val d'Or vs. Edmonton
Mon: Portland vs. Baie Comeau
Tues: Guelph vs. Edmonton

Two teams still play back-to-back (a common complaint with the current schedule), but it would rotate between leagues - of course, and one of them goes afternoon to evening (so that's like a second day! ), and the other one is in Pool A where they can't be eliminated directly because of it."

jason2020:

"With 6 teams it could go like this

Pool A

Ohl Champ
Whl Champ
Qmjhl Champ

Pool B

Host
Runner up 1
Runner up 2

First Round

Saturday

Ohl Champ vs QMJHL Champ
Host vs Runner Up 2

Monday

Whl Champ vs Ohl Champ
Runner Up 1 vs Runner Up 2

Wednesday

QMJHL Champ vs Host
Runner Up 1vs Whl Champ

Play Off Round

Friday

Quarter Final 1)A Pool 3rd vs 2nd
Quarter Final 2)B Pool 3rd vs 2nd

Saturday

Semi Final 1)A Pool 3rd/2nd vs 1st
Semi Final 2)B Pool 3rd/2nd vs 1st

Monday

Championship Game"

Otto:

"The Memorial Cup format would be as follows: The three league champs get in PLUS the winner from the previous year which would be the host team. Hosts teams do not necessarily need to use their home arena and they would have until November 30th to submit their plan. If they don't feel they can successfully host then the right goes to the team that loses in the final. So all participating teams in the previous years cup would be wise to prepare their plans... YES this means it does not move around from league to league every year and it puts the onus on teams to be successful. In order for the Host team to PLAY in the Memorial Cup they must at least get to their respective conference finals.. so if you miss the playoffs or get knocked out in the first two rounds .. yer out! At which point the loser of the league final gets in. Ticket packages do not go on sale for anyone until the Conference finalists have been decided. Again teams would be wise to have the correct infrastructure in place to deal with the ticket demand once the Conference Finals start"

…sorry Otto in the interest of space, I only copied the section of your post on the Memorial Cup revamp; not your ridiculous salary demands as commissioner

 

[BoxerMax]

I have no problem with the current format. Windsor is a very good team, and I would not be surprised if they do win the Memorial Cup.

The only thing I would change is going back a few years when the Host wasn't announced until the mid point of the season.

 

[Otto]

I love it when this topic comes up

Here's a post I made a few years ago...... I have increased my salary demands

First off let me preface this by saying that I understand the league in it's present state will never,ever go for any of the ideas I am about to post. These are simply my ideas to bring Junior Hockey back to it's grass roots, ensure for better competition in, and a fair way of choosing the host for the Memorial Cup and ensuring any hint of bias is removed from day to day decisions..

So without further ado.. If elected CHL Commissioner:

1) The Memorial Cup format would be as follows: The three league champs get in PLUS the winner from the previous year which would be the host team. Hosts teams do not necessarily need to use their home arena and they would have until November 30th to submit their plan. If they don't feel they can successfully host then the right goes to the team that loses in the final. So all participating teams in the previous years cup would be wise to prepare their plans... YES this means it does not move around from league to league every year and it puts the onus on teams to be successful. In order for the Host team to PLAY in the Memorial Cup they must at least get to their respective conference finals.. so if you miss the playoffs or get knocked out in the first two rounds .. yer out! At which point the loser of the league final gets in. Ticket packages do not go on sale for anyone until the Conference finalists have been decided. Again teams would be wise to have the correct infrastructure in place to deal with the ticket demand once the Conference Finals start

2) I would remove the financial guarantee Junior Clubs are expected to make.. but this format would return the memorial Cup to the grass roots of hockey.. thereby making it even MORE popular and growing the game

3) I would ensure that there was a separate commissioner for each CHL league.. removing any conflict of interest of having the CHL commissioner also overseeing one of its member leagues

4)I would also develop a competition committee made up of former players/officials/coaches to work in conjunction with the NHL and oversee prospective rules changes. These changes would mean that ALL leagues play under the SAME rules

5)As well there will be 1 disciplinary committee also made up of former players/officials/coaches that will oversee the discipline and hand down suspensions/fines for ALL three leagues.

6)ALL officials will be full time and be required to complete a rigorous training program in conjunction with the NHL officials. All officials will be paid as full time employees at a rate slightly lower than the starting NHL official.

7)My desired Salary is $80,000 per year plus travel allowance for my wife & I

 

[Otto]

…sorry Otto in the interest of space, I only copied the section of your post on the Memorial Cup revamp; not your ridiculous salary demands as commissioner

No worries.. I apologize for re-posting.. I didn't see this before I posted

To explain the salary demands.. when you factor in the time spent away from home . .I don't think they are unreasonable.

 

[Sidekick]

No worries.. I apologize for re-posting.. I didn't see this before I posted

To explain the salary demands.. when you factor in the time spent away from home . .I don't think they are unreasonable.

Haha, hey I was just joshing ya! I personally think you are selling yourself short only asking for 80k. I guess with such a low salary we can't expect you to be any more consistent with discipline than the system we have now?

Edit:....and now I realize you've already thought of the discipline thing in your post. An extra $5k of hypothetical dollars for you!

 

[EvenSteven]

I like it Otto! Sign me up!

 

[jason2020]

Otto

The risk having the past winner is they could be awful team that year say there 10-45 should they really be in the memorial cup.

 

[Gr8northscout]

Windsor-this year's host- wouldn't be out in the first round if Branch and company had the balls to do a 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15 etc....playoff scenario.

If you want to change the current format a little, I prefer if the host league had the winner and the runner up as well as the host in the tourney. This would at least drive up interest for the host league.

This year's example of a host not being very good doesn't fit as Windsor is a very good team.

 

[Otto]

Otto

The risk having the past winner is they could be awful team that year say there 10-45 should they really be in the memorial cup.

There is a provision for that in my proposal. Just because they are the host doesn't mean they are automatically in the tournament. They must at least reach the Conference finals to be guaranteed a berth in the Memorial Cup

 

[Otto]

Windsor-this year's host- wouldn't be out in the first round if Branch and company had the balls to do a 1 vs 16, 2 vs 15 etc....playoff scenario.

So you expected them to change the playoff format at the end of the season for a once in a blue moon circumstance?

Windsor still only had the 7th best record and would have played Kingston, whom they split with this year.

 

[ceg195]

I've never liked the fact that teams are playing after they're eliminated. Could they not just do a 3 team, home and home round robin? Then a single final game with the top team awarded with home ice? I guess travel may be a factor but they are creating that revenue with more home games in the end.