IceArizona - Year One: Performance Evaluation

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htpwn

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Nov 4, 2009
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I always wondered about that....

She comes across as bitter to me.

Perhaps she feels betrayed by the NHL? Or that one of the previous deals she got behind are superior to what was eventually given to IA? Or maybe her bitterness is directed towards the Ice Clowns, who (with the help of Gosbee) actually managed to close the deal, despite deliberately trying to torpedo past deals with 'arena management' offers?
 

Howler Scores

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the city will spend $2.1 million more than it will take in even

Council members pointed to one downtown property, known as the Thunderbird Lounge and retail shops, as a candidate

This doenst talk about "IceArizona - Year One: Performance Evaluation"

If you want to consider a City's dire budget, focus on this one:

Phoenix City Council to vote on controversial budget

Despite the cuts, the city still expects to have a $10 million deficit next year.

http://www.myfoxphoenix.com/story/2...to-vote-on-controversial-budget#ixzz32Ydia0aA

This comes as the Dbacks want money from Phoenix for upgrades and the Suns will be looking for a new stadium deal sometime down the line.
 

Howler Scores

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She comes across as bitter to me.

Perhaps she feels betrayed by the NHL? Or that one of the previous deals she got behind are superior to what was eventually given to IA? Or maybe her bitterness is directed towards the Ice Clowns, who (with the help of Gosbee) actually managed to close the deal, despite deliberately trying to torpedo past deals with 'arena management' offers?

She wasn't a fan of the 5 year clause and wanted a 20 year deal. That is the difference now.
 

TheLegend

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She wasn't a fan of the 5 year clause and wanted a 20 year deal. That is the difference now.


She was also dead set against the now infamous $100M parking bonds plan (Hulsizer deal) before that.

btw..... how this thread get turned into another discussion solely about Glendale?? Thought it was about Ice Arizona's first year perfomance???

:shakehead
 

Llama19

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Glendale budget gives employee raises, no service cuts

To quote:

"About $2 out of every $10 in the general fund goes to debt payments, mostly to pay off Camelback Ranch and the hockey arena, Jobing.com Arena.

The city must also contend with a new $15 million bill to keep the Phoenix Coyotes in town, an agreement with IceArizona that the City Council signed last summer. The council expected to collect $6.8 million in arena revenue to help offset that cost, but the return could come up $1.4 million short this year."

Source: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...t-gives-employee-raises-service-cuts/9491049/

How is Glendale showing the deficit is only $1.4 million?

The Monthly Arena Reports and the Follow Your MONEY figures don't seem to back that statement (see Post #1).

Are they trying to pull the wool over the taxpayers eyes?

Glendale's 'contribution' is $13.1 million, so they make up the 'difference' by taking money out of the contingency fund to cover IceArizona's shortfall? :help:
 
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JMROWE

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Nothing has changed in Arizona the coyotes still have the worst attendance & the in the NHL. & are still losing massive amounts of money & Glendale city council has to ask it self was it worth it to nearly bankrupt the city to save the coyotes which obviously no one in Arizona cares about unless the team is winning or giving away something .

MOD
 
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TheLegend

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Nothing has changed in Arizona the coyotes still have the worst attendance & the in the NHL. & are still losing massive amounts of money & Glendale city council has to ask it self was it worth it to nearly bankrupt the city to save the coyotes which obviously no one in Arizona cares about unless the team is winning or giving away something .

The commissioner seems to think otherwise....

Q. Your thoughts about the Phoenix Coyotes attendance (a little less than 14,000 a game) under new ownership?

A: Their attendance was fine. Their ticket policies were a lot more stringent than ours. It's clear when you look at the business, look at the fan engagement, the trajectory is going in the right direction. It's not like turning on a light switch. After all the years of uncertainty, it wasn't going to come back like snapping your fingers. The fact is they are doing the right things and it's building nicely.


http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/allen/2014/05/23/gary-bettman-qanda/9493443/
 

Bonsai Tree

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Nothing has changed in Arizona the coyotes still have the worst attendance & the in the NHL. & are still losing massive amounts of money & Glendale city council has to ask it self was it worth it to nearly bankrupt the city to save the coyotes which obviously no one in Arizona cares about unless the team is winning or giving away something .

MOD

I doubt that anyone seriously expected the new owners to step in just prior to the season and without any lead time to turn around the attendance figures. What they did accomplish was to maintain the attendance while significantly increasing revenue per seat by eliminating much of the free and discounted seats that were available in previous years.

They, and we will have a much better idea of how the new ownership is doing in recruiting new interest in what had been a tainted product after next season.
 

Fugu

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She was also dead set against the now infamous $100M parking bonds plan (Hulsizer deal) before that.

btw..... how this thread get turned into another discussion solely about Glendale?? Thought it was about Ice Arizona's first year perfomance???

:shakehead


You want us to make it two separate threads? There could be merit to both topics.
 

GuelphStormer

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Mar 20, 2012
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I doubt that anyone seriously expected the new owners to step in just prior to the season and without any lead time to turn around the attendance figures. What they did accomplish was to maintain the attendance while significantly increasing revenue per seat by eliminating much of the free and discounted seats that were available in previous years.

They, and we will have a much better idea of how the new ownership is doing in recruiting new interest in what had been a tainted product after next season.
i certainly did. these guys had been kicking the tires for years and it is insane for them not to have had an aggressive plan ready to go as soon as the ink was dry. it was absolutely necessary to hit the ground running. there is no excuse whatsoever for not making dramatic changes and become as aggressive as possible in marketing the product. they forfeited a unique opportunity by not increasing prices right away. the goodwill that existed a year ago is now gone ... forever. call me a cynic, but they have already blown it. greg jamison would have at least made a legitimate go of it. these guys are too busy tweeting and patting themselves on the back for becoming owners to be serious about actually running a hockey team.
 

Llama19

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Originally Posted by JMROWE
Nothing has changed in Arizona the coyotes still have the worst attendance & the in the NHL. & are still losing massive amounts of money & Glendale city council has to ask it self was it worth it to nearly bankrupt the city to save the coyotes which obviously no one in Arizona cares about unless the team is winning or giving away something .

The commissioner seems to think otherwise....

Q. Your thoughts about the Phoenix Coyotes attendance (a little less than 14,000 a game) under new ownership?

A: Their attendance was fine. Their ticket policies were a lot more stringent than ours. It's clear when you look at the business, look at the fan engagement, the trajectory is going in the right direction. It's not like turning on a light switch. After all the years of uncertainty, it wasn't going to come back like snapping your fingers. The fact is they are doing the right things and it's building nicely.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nhl/columnist/allen/2014/05/23/gary-bettman-qanda/9493443/

Breakdown of the past three years:

2014 - IceArizona ownership
15,073 (avg per weekend game) / 88.0% / 20 games
12,540 (avg per weekday game) / 73.2% / 21 games
Overall season - 13,776 / 80.4% - Rank: 30 of 30

2013 - NHL ownership (strike shorten)
15,431 (avg per weekend game) / 90.1% / 8 games
13,170 (avg per weekday game) / 76.9% / 16 games
Overall season - 13,924 / 81.3% - Rank: 29 of 30

2012 - NHL ownership
13,679 (avg per weekend game) / 79.9% / 18 games
11,436 (avg per weekday game) / 66.8% / 23 games
Overall season - 12,421 / 72.5% - Rank: 30 of 30
 
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MNNumbers

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It seems to me that their 'performance' has 2 parts:

1) Their own bottom line. We don't know much about this, really. They say they broke ticket revenue records, and there is no reason not to believe them. There is no reason to believe them, either, as far as that goes. Along with their bottom line is attendance. Reference llama's post above - attendance up compared to 2 years ago, and probably last year when you factor in the end of the year always having higher attendance in the Phoenix market. The downside is that, compared to Glendale's figures, those attendance numbers included more than 1000 comp tickets every night. To me, they can give away as many as they want... It's their business. But if you try to evaluate their performance, you have to consider that.

2) How much revenue they returned to Glendale. This piece makes Glendale's financial situation part of the discussion. As has been mentioned, very roughly, by the time the supplemental surcharge is factored in, IA will return about 5.5M to Glendale this year. Since Glendale is paying 15M/yr, and this is a short year, Glendale will end up paying IA about 13.5M. Thus, this year cost Glendale about 8M for IA to manage the arena. They had budgeted 6M, so that is a 2M loss for Glendale. In a normal year, this would be a 3.5M loss, because of the full 15M being paid. So, IA performance in regard to Glendale: Not nearly as good as advertised. I would not say 'promised' because there were no guarantees.

That is all I will say at this point, because others have commented quite a bit on Glendale's situation in regard to their own financial situation.
 

Glacial

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Breakdown of the past three years:

2014 - IceArizona ownership
15,073 (avg per weekend game) / 88.0% / 20 games
12,540 (avg per weekday game) / 73.2% / 21 games
Overall season - 13,776 / 80.4% - Rank: 30 of 30

2013 - NHL ownership (strike shorten)
15,431 (avg per weekend game) / 90.1% / 8 games
13,170 (avg per weekday game) / 76.9% / 16 games
Overall season - 13,924 / 81.3% - Rank: 29 of 30

2012 - NHL ownership
13,679 (avg per weekend game) / 79.9% / 18 games
11,436 (avg per weekday game) / 66.8% / 23 games
Overall season - 12,421 / 72.5% - Rank: 30 of 30

So... up then down is Bettman's idea of the "right direction"?
 

Tommy Hawk

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May 27, 2006
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I doubt that anyone seriously expected the new owners to step in just prior to the season and without any lead time to turn around the attendance figures. What they did accomplish was to maintain the attendance while significantly increasing revenue per seat by eliminating much of the free and discounted seats that were available in previous years.

They, and we will have a much better idea of how the new ownership is doing in recruiting new interest in what had been a tainted product after next season.

Funny, the same thing was said when the NHL took over yet they still needed 20+ million, IA only needs 15.

i certainly did. these guys had been kicking the tires for years and it is insane for them not to have had an aggressive plan ready to go as soon as the ink was dry. it was absolutely necessary to hit the ground running. there is no excuse whatsoever for not making dramatic changes and become as aggressive as possible in marketing the product. they forfeited a unique opportunity by not increasing prices right away. the goodwill that existed a year ago is now gone ... forever. call me a cynic, but they have already blown it. greg jamison would have at least made a legitimate go of it. these guys are too busy tweeting and patting themselves on the back for becoming owners to be serious about actually running a hockey team.

The Blackhawks turned their attendance around when old man wirtz died and Rocky took over. He implemented some things within a month of taking over if not less. It appeared he had a plan for some time and it took hm no time to start implementing it. I wold have also thought IA would have had a plan and as soon as closing took place they would have aggressively implemented it.
 

Llama19

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hence forth, comparing IA to the 4 previous years of no ownership or league-owned ownership is unfair.

13,776 will be the balance attendance fact from hereforth if I'm reading that right.

Is this any better...

05_24_14_Attendance.jpg


Or, would these historical figures do...
 

CasualFan

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what he says is not necessarily what he thinks ... besides, even in bettmanspeak, that quote is hardly a glowing endorsement.

Exactly. That's the same Gary Bettman who denied that the league had assumed control of the team pre-BK, even though he had already executed the proxy, right?
I can see why someone would promote one of his quotes as evidence. Great source. Flawless record for honesty. Never just tells a story the way he wants you to hear. :shakehead

How is Glendale showing the deficit is only $1.4 million?
I think the context was how far short of revenue projections they are; not the total deficit on the lease.
 

MacOfNiagara

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Feb 8, 2006
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Breakdown of the past three years:

2014 - IceArizona ownership
15,073 (avg per weekend game) / 88.0% / 20 games
12,540 (avg per weekday game) / 73.2% / 21 games
Overall season - 13,776 / 80.4% - Rank: 30 of 30

2013 - NHL ownership (strike shorten)
15,431 (avg per weekend game) / 90.1% / 8 games
13,170 (avg per weekday game) / 76.9% / 16 games
Overall season - 13,924 / 81.3% - Rank: 29 of 30

2012 - NHL ownership
13,679 (avg per weekend game) / 79.9% / 18 games
11,436 (avg per weekday game) / 66.8% / 23 games
Overall season - 12,421 / 72.5% - Rank: 30 of 30

Is that attendance or ticket sales?

I find attendance figures to be less informative than ticket sales or better yet ticket revenue.
 

TheLegend

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Breakdown of the past three years:

2014 - IceArizona ownership
15,073 (avg per weekend game) / 88.0% / 20 games
12,540 (avg per weekday game) / 73.2% / 21 games
Overall season - 13,776 / 80.4% - Rank: 30 of 30

2013 - NHL ownership (strike shorten)
15,431 (avg per weekend game) / 90.1% / 8 games
13,170 (avg per weekday game) / 76.9% / 16 games
Overall season - 13,924 / 81.3% - Rank: 29 of 30

2012 - NHL ownership
13,679 (avg per weekend game) / 79.9% / 18 games
11,436 (avg per weekday game) / 66.8% / 23 games
Overall season - 12,421 / 72.5% - Rank: 30 of 30


And the numbers between 2013 and 2014 are misleading since historically the Coyotes don't fair well in attendance early in the season. But this past season they had just one sub-10k single game attendance compared to three during the strike shortened season and seven during the 2012 playoff season.


Source:
http://www.hockeyattendance.com/team/phoenix-coyotes/2013/
http://www.hockeyattendance.com/team/phoenix-coyotes/2012/
http://www.hockeyattendance.com/team/phoenix-coyotes/2011/
 

TheLegend

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You want us to make it two separate threads? There could be merit to both topics.

Might be a good alternative.

This thread is being advertised as Ice Arizona's performance in their initial year. If the discussion is going to get steered into Glendale selling off buildings or other non-Coyotes related issues with the city then it becomes a completely different topic.

JMO
 

TheLegend

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what he says is not necessarily what he thinks ... besides, even in bettmanspeak, that quote is hardly a glowing endorsement.

And does that mean the opinions made by posters to this board, who are in less position to know what truly is going on inside the team's operation, mean any more??
 

CasualFan

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Nov 27, 2009
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I doubt that anyone seriously expected the new owners to step in just prior to the season and without any lead time to turn around the attendance figures. What they did accomplish was to maintain the attendance while significantly increasing revenue per seat by eliminating much of the free and discounted seats that were available in previous years.

They, and we will have a much better idea of how the new ownership is doing in recruiting new interest in what had been a tainted product after next season.

I guess "just prior" is in the eye of the beholder. Respectfully, unless you have access to team financial documents, you pretty much have no clue if revenue went up, down, or sideways. I understand that ownership is going to say that everything is roses but, much like Mr. Bettman's quotes on the matter, it's meaningless banter. I bet you could take ten seconds and Google up some quotes from Mr. Moyes that say how well the business is doing too.

I don't think I'll ever understand what it is about fans that makes them want to be delusional about the business aspects of a team. For the Coyotes, there's a very clear trend and I don't believe any reasonable person expects it to change.
 

Bonsai Tree

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I guess "just prior" is in the eye of the beholder. Respectfully, unless you have access to team financial documents, you pretty much have no clue if revenue went up, down, or sideways. I understand that ownership is going to say that everything is roses but, much like Mr. Bettman's quotes on the matter, it's meaningless banter. I bet you could take ten seconds and Google up some quotes from Mr. Moyes that say how well the business is doing too.

I don't think I'll ever understand what it is about fans that makes them want to be delusional about the business aspects of a team. For the Coyotes, there's a very clear trend and I don't believe any reasonable person expects it to change.

Let me clarify. The comments about revenue were extrapolated by public statements by ownership regarding surpassing previous revenue records. The comment about decreased free tickets was based upon conversations I've had with the sales staff. Perhaps I'm delusional to believe what I was told. That is clearly a possibility.
 
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