FireBird71
Registered User
- Aug 6, 2015
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Probably once they made their trades but I think they got valueWhat's his story? Read somebody saying he seriously turned up his offense from the middle of the season to the end.
Probably once they made their trades but I think they got valueWhat's his story? Read somebody saying he seriously turned up his offense from the middle of the season to the end.
He’s very raw (August bday), big kid, good skater. Shows flashes of offensive potential. He can make breakout passes, he can skate the puck out on his own. Makes dumb plays here and there. People look at his numbers and think safe pick, defensive d man, that isn’t the case. He’s a project.What's his story? Read somebody saying he seriously turned up his offense from the middle of the season to the end.
I do find it interesting how the conversation has shifted from the Wings not being able to draft top defenseman because we've been too good, to it doesn't matter if we take a defenseman early since they can be taken in the 2nd round...
The biggest issue is this organizations inability to draft and develop them, which is why I've been a big proponent of trying to trade for one, but I've seen backlash on that as well... So if we can't draft/develop or won't draft/develop them and trading is a bad idea because the 'price is too high'... what then?
Was there a defenseman who was slated to be that good that we passed up on?
A lot of people who watch GRG said he hit a wall.
Year | Player | Position | Team | GP | G | A | Pts | PIM |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
2017 | Eeli Tolvanen | FORWARD | Nashville Predators | 3 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 0 |
2016 | Sam Steel | FORWARD | Anaheim Ducks | |||||
2015 | Nick Merkley | FORWARD | Arizona Coyotes | 1 | 0 | 0 | 0 | 2 |
2014 | John Quenneville | FORWARD | New Jersey Devils | 14 | 1 | 3 | 4 | 2 |
Year | Player | Position | Team | GP | G | A | Pts | PIM |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1976 | Randy Carlyle | DEFENSE | Toronto Maple Leafs | 1055 | 148 | 499 | 647 | 1400 |
1991 | Sandis Ozolinsh | DEFENSE | San Jose Sharks | 875 | 167 | 397 | 564 | 638 |
1989 | Patrice Brisebois | DEFENSE | Montreal Canadiens | 1009 | 98 | 322 | 420 | 623 |
1973 | Pat Hickey | FORWARD | New York Rangers | 644 | 192 | 212 | 404 | 351 |
1979 | Mark Hardy | DEFENSE | Los Angeles Kings | 915 | 62 | 306 | 368 | 1293 |
1981 | Jan Erixon | FORWARD | New York Rangers | 556 | 57 | 159 | 216 | 167 |
2011 | Rickard Rakell | FORWARD | Anaheim Ducks | 313 | 96 | 102 | 198 | 57 |
2010 | Brock Nelson | FORWARD | New York Islanders | 398 | 99 | 89 | 188 | 145 |
2012 | Tanner Pearson | FORWARD | Los Angeles Kings | 308 | 69 | 74 | 143 | 80 |
1994 | Deron Quint | DEFENSE | Winnipeg Jets | 463 | 46 | 97 | 143 | 166 |
2002 | Jim Slater | FORWARD | Atlanta Thrashers | 584 | 67 | 71 | 138 | 407 |
1984 | Peter Douris | FORWARD | Winnipeg Jets | 321 | 54 | 67 | 121 | 80 |
1983 | David Bruce | FORWARD | Vancouver Canucks | 234 | 48 | 39 | 87 | 338 |
1986 | Neil Wilkinson | DEFENSE | Minnesota North Stars | 460 | 16 | 67 | 83 | 813 |
2001 | Dave Steckel | FORWARD | Los Angeles Kings | 425 | 33 | 46 | 79 | 129 |
1996 | Josh Green | FORWARD | Los Angeles Kings | 341 | 36 | 40 | 76 | 206 |
1988 | Adrien Plavsic | DEFENSE | St. Louis Blues | 214 | 16 | 56 | 72 | 161 |
2013 | Ryan Hartman | FORWARD | Chicago Blackhawks | 162 | 30 | 33 | 63 | 144 |
2000 | Jeff Taffe | FORWARD | St. Louis Blues | 180 | 21 | 25 | 46 | 40 |
2009 | Simon Despres | DEFENSE | Pittsburgh Penguins | 193 | 6 | 37 | 43 | 150 |
Honestly,... you have heard wrong. Hronek had a very good year. He's not ready yet, but he had to show he could be a high end offensive defenseman at the AHL level, and he did just that.From what I've heard from a # of people on this board Hronek took a step back this season but is still likely to be a #3-4 d-man.
Hronner is looking like he will be a good #1
I think this draft has to start a timer for Detroit. Okay, you just drafted basically 4 guys who are going to contribute in the next 3-ish years. Zadina is going to come in very quickly, and then there are other young guys who are also coming in quite shortly (Rasmussen, Smith, Svechnikov, Hronek, Cholowski, etc.), and Veleno, Bergren, and McIsaac can come in a little bit later. This is a team that is going to upgrade in relatively short order, and that'll help them compete. But that also ends up meaning the Wings have 3-ish years to upgrade the defense to complement them, otherwise they're going to run into serious cap and timing issues.
Sure. Keep collecting nickels, and try to trade a couple for a quarter down the road. Sounds like a really efficient way to build a roster.Nah, you just trade some of those extra forwards for a proven defenceman, when it looks like that you have too many.
Drafting forwards is not a problem, it's the answer, sooner or later.
Really? I don't think I've really ever seen that on this board. If anything he exceed all expectations of his first season with GRG.A lot of people who watch GRG said he hit a wall.
Oh, so mid season. You said he took a step back this season so I thought you meant the season as a whole.A lot of people who watch GRG said he hit a wall.
Sure. Keep collecting nickels, and try to trade a couple for a quarter down the road. Sounds like a really efficient way to build a roster.
When the most important facet of said roster has zero encouraging NHL players, it's a great way to get right back to bubble status and stay there for a long time.Is passing up a potential superstar forward that falls into your lap an efficient way to build a roster in your opinion?
You think Zadina, Veleno, and Berggren are nickels? Say we pick Kaapo Kakko next year, the skilled Finnish winger. If that happens you've suddenly got many significant trade pieces. Mantha is suddenly available, Athanasiou and Svechnikov become even easier to part ways with. Mantha+Athanasiou would get you a damn fine young defenseman, and you're still left with a U23 forward group of Zadina, Kakko, Larkin, Veleno, Rasmussen, and Berggren. You've also got Bertuzzi, Smith, Pope, and Turgeon providing depth. Between the d-man you trade for and McIsaac, Cholowski, and Hronek, you're looking good, even if one of them doesn't pan out.Sure. Keep collecting nickels, and try to trade a couple for a quarter down the road. Sounds like a really efficient way to build a roster.
I have zero complaints about Zadina as a player, and I wish people would stop misinterpreting that part of my argument. What I don't like is that Detroit now has another handful of forwards that are - Zadina notwithstanding - middle six type guys, while the defense is still bereft of a single player or prospect they might be a true top pairing player. And hoarding those type of forwards doesn't make much sense, because the trade market tends to require 2-3 of them for one even halfway decent defenseman.You think Zadina, Veleno, and Berggren are nickels?
No, Mantha and AA maybe get you a Justin Faulk, which is a decent player, but isn't close to the anchor needed.Say we pick Kaapo Kakko next year, the skilled Finnish winger. If that happens you've suddenly got many significant trade pieces. Mantha is suddenly available, Athanasiou and Svechnikov become even easier to part ways with. Mantha+Athanasiou would get you a damn fine young defenseman, and you're still left with a U23 forward group of Zadina, Kakko, Larkin, Veleno, Rasmussen, and Berggren.
It's a war of attrition. I only expect one legit NHL defenseman for every 3-4 decent prospects. Partly because it's inherently a numbers game, and partly because the Wings stink at drafting enough D, drafting good D players, and developing said D players once drafted.You've also got Bertuzzi, Smith, Pope, and Turgeon providing depth. Between the d-man you trade for and McIsaac, Cholowski, and Hronek, you're looking good, even if one of them doesn't pan out.
We didn't collect nickles. That's why people aren't upset. We went for the skilled guys finally. You know how we never have tempting offers when something juicy is available? That's cause all we had are nickles. We're trying to change that.Sure. Keep collecting nickels, and try to trade a couple for a quarter down the road. Sounds like a really efficient way to build a roster.
Look. The Wings scouts may suck. It's fully possible they are crazy or complete morons.When the most important facet of said roster has zero encouraging NHL players, it's a great way to get right back to bubble status and stay there for a long time.
But my gripe isn't with taking Zadina over a defenseman. It's in not still finding a way to either draft a potential top pairing guy, or a boatload of 3/4 guys.
Take the superstar. But then don't continue to bury your head in the sand for how crucial it is to get some real blue liners.
Look. The Wings scouts may suck. It's fully possible they are crazy or complete morons.
But from the sounds of it they had Zadina as the 2nd best player in the draft, Veleno very high (let's speculate and say top ~15), and Berggren also high (say top ~20).. they went into the draft targeting D, because they thought the BPA at both 6, 30 and 33 would likely be D. They thought Zadina would go top 5, and both Veleno and Berggren to be gone at 30. When they fall, how can you ignore it? The fact that most people count Wings as big winners of the draft, and fans of other teams are talking about how we stole all 3 of those guys should tip you off to the fact that our scouts made the right call ON PAPER.
In the end the most important facet of any NHL roster is talent. Will it look bad for us if there are a couple of top pairing D coming out of the 2nd round or late 1st while we get nothing much out of Veleno/Berggren/McIsaac? Sure. But that's every draft. We might just as easily get a couple of the top players of the draft with these selections.
my only thing with that is they still couldve had addison or wilde, but instead went with berg. So really it is better to compare him with those guys. Personally i would have gone with one of those guys over berggren. Think if enough of hronek/cholo/hicketts/sulak/lindstrom/saarijarvi can make somewhat of a step up to the majors and berggren hits his potential that it will work out well with only adding mcisaacFor the sake of argument, let's say my take on Veleno is too harsh, some other takes are a tad too optimistic, and let's say he pans out to be a tweener 2/3C kinda player. More than just the Lars Eller that Button compares him to, and becomes something of the next Frans Nielsen (the early years, not post bad contract).
Now let's also temper my expectations a bit of the defensemen I would've drafted instead. So instead of Addison or Wilde becoming the next Brent Seabrook or Tyson Barrie, they become the next Sammy Vataanen.
Based on where this franchise is, and their track record of identifying forwards versus identifying defensemen...you think it's more important to add the next Frans Nielsen then the next Sammy Vataanen? If you really think that way, you're entitled to your opinion.
But I'm never ever going to agree with that. Not for this team.
Based on where this franchise is, and their track record of identifying forwards versus identifying defensemen...you think it's more important to add the next Frans Nielsen then the next Sammy Vataanen? If you really think that way, you're entitled to your opinion.
But I'm never ever going to agree with that. Not for this team.