Hypothetical Trade & Hypothetical Question

[UglyPuckling]

Let's suppose we could trade for a really good goalie. This would be a true top notch goalie, a veritable stud like Hellebuyck, Vasilevskiy, or Shesterkin. Or, to go to years past, a Brodeur, Price or Hasek level goalie.

Let's suppose the trade consisted of mostly futures or players that we could afford losing (example: 1st, 2nd, Pinto & Chychrun). Don't get hung up on the trade asset aspect. Don't worry or respond with this isn't possible. Don't worry about losing a player like a defender or whatever if you feel or tempted to feel that one of our trade assets was a key player. Just assume we find an equivalent replacement for a traded asset. Also, assume the goaltender stays healthy or doesn't suddenly tank. This purely HYPOTHETICAL.

Our poor goaltending situation is often discussed and cited as our big problem (maybe even only problem for some).

So, the question is: Do you think we would have deep playoff runs, maybe even win the Cup in the next 3 or 4 years?

Please lead your response with a simple Yes, or No.

You can provide additional info if you like. Just be sure to state a Yes or No. Thanks kindly.

Click to read more...

 

[bicboi64]

Nope. Even prime Hasek can't carry this soft core to any success.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Nope. Even prime Hasek can't carry this soft core to any success.

Thanks for answering. All answers are good and the motivation for the question in this thread is just curiosity.

We talk a lot about goaltending issues, but wondered if we somehow found ourselves with a much better goaltender, how much better would we be?

 

[Micklebot]

No,

What a deep run, win two rounds I guess? I'm not sure you can expect that from any team, outside of a very select few.

It's certainly possible for an elite goalie to carry a team deep, but how often did Hasek get the Sabres out of the second round, maybe twice? How often did Price drag the Habs to the conference finals, 3 times?

I think elite goaltending would get this team into the playoffs, and from there anything can happen but to expect success we'll need to address some other areas too

 

[UglyPuckling]

No,

What a deep run, win two rounds I guess? I'm not sure you can expect that from any team, outside of a very select few.

It's certainly possible for an elite goalie to carry a team deep, but how often did Hasek get the Sabres out of the second round, maybe twice? How often did Price drag the Habs to the conference finals, 3 times?

I think elite goaltending would get this team into the playoffs, and from there anything can happen but to expect success we'll need to address some other areas too

OK thanks. Yes, I think 2 rounds is a good standard.

This info isn't directed at you (or anyone really). You've given your answer already which is cool. I just wanted to put it somewhere as background info, so here is a good of place as any.

Background info:
TBL has the last wild card slot with 49 points, while Ottawa has 30. So, we'd had to make up 20 points to displace TBL. We do have 5 games-in-hand, so even if we win all of them, that's still not enough. We'd need 21 points to displace the 3rd Divisional seed, with only 3 games-in-hand.

 

[Sting]

This team is a lot more pieces away than an elite goalie in my opinion.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

No

You should do a poll

 

[Boud]

Nope.

The question about goaltending might not even be relevant until this team can give an effort and play a full game of good hockey. Talbot is killing it in LA, Gus killed it last year, Daccord is playing well. We need to start fixing the roster and the mentality before goaltending.

Helleybuck would have a .900 save % on this team. They're that bad.

 

[UglyPuckling]

No

You should do a poll

I suppose, but I've never done one before. Informally, we have 5 No answers, and 0 Yes answers.

 

[Xspyrit]

Nope. Even prime Hasek can't carry this soft core to any success.

/thread

This is Pierre Dorion construction that was taught for 5 seasons by a guy who has no idea how to instill 2-way hockey

No goalie is going to fix this, only time and proper coaching

 

[dumbdick]

Maybe. But i admit i got hung up on the trade assets and I dont do well under such exacting thread response requirements.

Maybe make a poll.

 

[DueDiligence]

Nope. Even prime Hasek can't carry this soft core to any success.

Untrue. Hasek carried a very average team to the finals.

 

[Micklebot]

OK thanks. Yes, I think 2 rounds is a good standard.

This info isn't directed at you (or anyone really). You've given your answer already which is cool. I just wanted to put it somewhere as background info, so here is a good of place as any.

Background info:
TBL has the last wild card slot with 49 points, while Ottawa has 30. So, we'd had to make up 20 points to displace TBL. We do have 5 games-in-hand, so even if we win all of them, that's still not enough. We'd need 21 points to displace the 3rd Divisional seed, with only 3 games-in-hand.

So, what's interesting is this team is mostly an upgraded roster compared to last year's that finished with 86 pts, so idk if using this year's result as a baseline makes sense.

Most of the pieces that are gone, guys like Gambrell, Zaitsev, Pyatt, Brassard, and Holden, aren't tough to acquire, the gap between DeBrincat's 27g 66pt -31 and Tarasenko's 22g 62 pts +20 pace seems at worst inconsequential at best an improvement

We certainly aren't as good as a lot of people expected, but is the base of the roster really as bad as the current results suggest? How hard would it be to get an average PK? That alone would shave off 13 goals, seems achievanle with elite goaltending, and it would move to us neck and neck with Tbay in GF%, all situations. Now add in any difference that goalie makes 5v5.

 

[DueDiligence]

Nope.

The question about goaltending might not even be relevant until this team can give an effort and play a full game of good hockey. Talbot is killing it in LA, Gus killed it last year, Daccord is playing well. We need to start fixing the roster and the mentality before goaltending.

Helleybuck would have a .900 save % on this team. They're that bad.

Most goalies wouldn't handle this situation well but there are probably a few guys out there that could make this better in spite of the poor team defense. Most would get pissed off and dejected with the poor play in front of them and they would play down to the level of the team. It takes a special kind of mentality to have to be the go to guy virtually every night and be the one to lead the team. Hasek did it. You put a Hellebuyck or Demko on this team this year they have maybe five more wins.

 

[K1900L]

There are ~3-5 goalies in the NHL who provide a superstar-performance each and every year. The truth is that goaltending is absolutely volatile, no matter who it is. And we don't have access to any of those 3-5 names (not as if they would be above average here, taking into consideration this team's defensive inabilities).
Many people have already pointed out that our former goalies are playing rather well on different teams. Good goaltending is somewhat of a coin toss, teaching the whole team to play collectively well for longer stretches is not.

 

[UglyPuckling]

So, what's interesting is this team is mostly an upgraded roster compared to last year's that finished with 86 pts, so idk if using this year's result as a baseline makes sense.

Most of the pieces that are gone, guys like Gambrell, Zaitsev, Pyatt, Brassard, and Holden, aren't tough to acquire, the gap between DeBrincat's 27g 66pt -31 and Tarasenko's 22g 62 pts +20 pace seems at worst inconsequential at best an improvement

We certainly aren't as good as a lot of people expected, but is the base of the roster really as bad as the current results suggest? How hard would it be to get an average PK? That alone would shave off 13 goals, seems achievanle with elite goaltending, and it would move to us neck and neck with Tbay in GF%, all situations. Now add in any difference that goalie makes 5v5.

You ask questions that I can't answer. Maybe we win the requisite number of games to make the playoffs, or maybe the scores in a bunch of games are closer and we still lose. IDK.

The premise or question posed was can we go on a deep run? Quite a few teams make the playoffs, so I was really asking is if this a really good team with a better goalie versus a team that just sneaks or squeaks into the playoffs, and could we go on a run consistently.

In the end, it's only your win/loss record that counts. You are what your record says you are as they say.

I only provided those stats to provide additional information and perspective in case someone found the info useful.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Maybe. But i admit i got hung up on the trade assets and I dont do well under such exacting thread response requirements.

Maybe make a poll.

It was an empirical approach. The concept of the question is basically like conducting an experiment where the experimental group has only one difference (variable) versus the control group. Therefore you are studying the impact of just that one variable, in this case better/good goaltending.

I wanted to eliminate the noise around someone saying we traded away that good player so we weakened the team, the goalie could injured and that kind of thing.

 

[dumbdick]

It was an empirical approach. The concept of the question is basically like conducting an experiment where you the experimental group has only one difference versus the control group. Therefore you are studying the impact of just that one variable, in this case better/good goaltending.

I wanted to eliminate the noise around while we traded away that good player so we weakened the team, the goalie could injured and that kind of thing.

You're squeezing your stick too tight.

 

[UglyPuckling]

You're squeezing your stick too tight.

For some I suppose. Those with a STEM background will understand.

 

[UglyPuckling]

Most goalies wouldn't handle this situation well but there are probably a few guys out there that could make this better in spite of the poor team defense. Most would get pissed off and dejected with the poor play in front of them and they would play down to the level of the team. It takes a special kind of mentality to have to be the go to guy virtually every night and be the one to lead the team. Hasek did it. You put a Hellebuyck or Demko on this team this year they have maybe five more wins.

So, this is a Yes?

 

[Do Make Say Think]

For some I suppose. Those with a STEM background will understand.

I'm not sure this thread could be considered valuable data for the purpose of anything except polling users

 

[DueDiligence]

So, this is a Yes?

Combined with a few other moves; Yes.

 

[UglyPuckling]

I'm not sure this thread could be considered valuable data for the purpose of anything except polling users

I was trying to determine how much of an impact upgrading a goalie would have for people in here. Providing valuable data was not an objective.

Combined with a few other moves; Yes.

If other additions/upgrades would need to be added, then that would be a No.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Let's suppose we could trade for a really good goalie. This would be a true top notch goalie, a veritable stud like Hellebuyck, Vasilevskiy, or Shesterkin. Or, to go to years past, a Brodeur, Price or Hasek level goalie.

Let's suppose the trade consisted of mostly futures or players that we could afford losing (example: 1st, 2nd, Pinto & Chychrun). Don't get hung up on the trade asset aspect. Don't worry or respond with this isn't possible. Don't worry about losing a player like a defender or whatever if you feel or tempted to feel that one of our trade assets was a key player. Just assume we find an equivalent replacement for a traded asset. Also, assume the goaltender stays healthy or doesn't suddenly tank. This purely HYPOTHETICAL.

Our poor goaltending situation is often discussed and cited as our big problem (maybe even only problem for some).

So, the question is: Do you think we would have deep playoff runs, maybe even win the Cup in the next 3 or 4 years?

Please lead your response with a simple Yes, or No.

You can provide additional info if you like. Just be sure to state a Yes or No. Thanks kindly.

Why don't we flip the question around a little bit.

Are teams like the Jets, Canucks, Bruins and Knights good defensively because of the great goaltending they get?

OR

Are goalies like Hellebuyck 19.78GSAA, Demko 13.78, Sawyman 12.59 and Hill 12.07 beneficiaries of good defensive play in front of them? Ie. How do they achieve such high results in this metric that accounts for quality of competition, quality of team, etc.?

 

[Norris4Norris]

Yes.

I can see a deep playoff run 4 years from now with Hasek in net.

Either the Sens learn how to play defense from Martin or we hire an experienced coach.

After 2 years of maturing in a new defensive system (betting on a good coach) I bet damned near anyone could make the playoffs behind Hasek. And I think we have the young talent and the ability to learn and change that would allow deep playoff runs in 3-4 years.