Proposal: Hypothetical Rebuild 2: Willingness to Trade XXX

[BinCookin]

Just to clarify the position of our HF DRW fan posters on this issue.

Would you be willing to trade

1) Datsyuk and Zetterberg for prospects and draft picks?

2) Kronwall for prospects and draft picks?

The reason of course for the question is an expansion on some recent threads about rebuilding. Obviously the return for a trade makes you choose whether or not to do a deal, but for many, certain names are a "untouchable". I am asking here if these 3 names are untouchables assuming Holland decides it would be in the DRW interest to miss the playoffs for a few years to committ fully to a youth movement. (rebuild/retool whatever you want to call it)

Click to read more...

 

[FlashyG]

Just to clarify the position of our HF DRW fan posters on this issue.

Would you be willing to trade

1) Datsyuk and Zetterberg for prospects and draft picks?

2) Kronwall for prospects and draft picks?

For all 3 it depends hugely on the prospects and the picks coming back in return, but in general my answer would be

No to #1 and yes to #2.

 

[Shaman464]

Trade Kronwall for turkey sandwich with just tomato.

 

[Laser Rayzor]

For all 3 it depends hugely on the prospects and the picks coming back in return, but in general my answer would be
No to #1 and yes to #2.

I agree with the bolded, but why are Z and D lumped up in the question? because if we could get a good return I'd deal Datsyuk if Dats wanted a trade but I wouldn't deal Z because he's the captain but also because of that damn cap recapture penalty. Also I'd deal Kronner sooner rather than later before people start realizing how much he's fallen off.

 

[korrowan]

Trade them all. Team isn't going to win anything in the near term and all 3 of them are on the wrong side of 35.

 

[Retire91]

With respect to the players I would say let them play out their career a wing unless they request to be traded. Maybe they want to go for another cup run and that would be fine. Otherwise would hate to see them in another jersey.

Kronwall could be traded but probably not for much.

 

[Ezekial]

I'm with Fed.

 

[BinCookin]

I agree with the bolded, but why are Z and D lumped up in the question?

I figured for the most part people who would likely be willing to trade 1, would also trade the other, OR people unwilling to trade one also unlikely to trade the other.

I am going to make a series of posts on this subject to see where the majority stands on certain decisions over some possible takes on "Arm-Chair GMing" our team.

(Something like our "prospect rankings")

 

[Ezekial]

I figured for the most part people who would likely be willing to trade 1, would also trade the other, OR people unwilling to trade one also unlikely to trade the other.

I am going to make a series of posts on this subject to see where the majority stands on certain decisions over some possible takes on "Arm-Chair GMing" our team.

(Something like our "prospect rankings")

I could only see people keeping Pavel and trading Hank for contract purposes. Probably very few though.

 

[8snake]

Only player that will get you anything would be Pav, as his reputation in the league is that he's still an impact player when healthy...but even then he's going on 38 so not many GM's are going to give up much. Hank is valued more for his leadership and what he provides in Detroit's locker room...he's not a goal scorer or an elite playmaker and GM's aren't giving up much for a 36 year old and his intangibles. Kronwall has no trade value at all...a 36 year old d-man in the midst of an awful season after years of decline has no market aside from MAYBE a late round pick.

 

[BinCookin]

I could only see people keeping Pavel and trading Hank for contract purposes. Probably very few though.

Ya which is pretty much why i grouped them into 1.

IMO they will both be life long red wings, and retire in Detroit.

But I really do believe that both could be moved for a 1st round pick + a prospect. If they waived NTC's and Detroit wanted to move them.

I have an opinion on what I want, but dont want to cloud the results.

 

[The Zermanator]

D and Z? No, they belong as lifers alongside Lidstrom, Yzerman, etc. Especially Datsyuk.

Kronwall? Well we've had a good chunk of the season without him, and the difference hasn't been as stark as many of us would have imagined. If we can get valuable assets for him, sure.

 

[BinCookin]

Only player that will get you anything would be Pav, as his reputation in the league is that he's still an impact player when healthy...but even then he's going on 38 so not many GM's are going to give up much. Hank is valued more for his leadership and what he provides in Detroit's locker room...he's not a goal scorer or an elite playmaker and GM's aren't giving up much for a 36 year old and his intangibles. Kronwall has no trade value at all...a 36 year old d-man in the midst of an awful season after years of decline has no market aside from MAYBE a late round pick.

In all fairness Kronwall as much as you might be upset with his play, is worth more than an "5th/6th rounder".

Polak = 2 2nds, Kronwall EVEN if you think he is worse... worth a 2nd.
Its not like he has an expensive contract.

In either case, I do not think Detroit would have trouble finding a team that would be willing to trade assets for K/D/Z.

No we wont be getting a kings ransom (not like we would have 5 years ago).. but the point is they are worth something, and if you are rebuilding the point really is this:

-Do you value the legacy of the players with the Red Wings?
or
-Do you value the assets for the team... because they will return something... and it will be better than a 4th rounder for all of them

 

[8snake]

Ya which is pretty much why i grouped them into 1.

IMO they will both be life long red wings, and retire in Detroit.

But I really do believe that both could be moved for a 1st round pick + a prospect. If they waived NTC's and Detroit wanted to move them.

I have an opinion on what I want, but dont want to cloud the results.

There is no way Henrik Zetterberg is fetching a 1st and a prospect. I don't even think Pav would get you a 1st and a prospect and he's much more highly regarded around the league as far as being an impact player between in the two in the late stages of their careers.

 

[SoupNazi]

Only player that will get you anything would be Pav, as his reputation in the league is that he's still an impact player when healthy...but even then he's going on 38 so not many GM's are going to give up much. Hank is valued more for his leadership and what he provides in Detroit's locker room...he's not a goal scorer or an elite playmaker and GM's aren't giving up much for a 36 year old and his intangibles. Kronwall has no trade value at all...a 36 year old d-man in the midst of an awful season after years of decline has no market aside from MAYBE a late round pick.

Kronwall is 35, not 36. I also doubt he has no trade value like you claim.

 

[8snake]

In all fairness Kronwall as much as you might be upset with his play, is worth more than an "5th/6th rounder".

Polak = 2 2nds, Kronwall EVEN if you think he is worse... worth a 2nd.
Its not like he has an expensive contract.

In either case, I do not think Detroit would have trouble finding a team that would be willing to trade assets for K/D/Z.

No we wont be getting a kings ransom (not like we would have 5 years ago).. but the point is they are worth something, and if you are rebuilding the point really is this:

-Do you value the legacy of the players with the Red Wings?
or
-Do you value the assets for the team... because they will return something... and it will be better than a 4th rounder for all of them

Polak is 29, Nik is 35. That's significant for GM's.

 

[BinCookin]

Polak is 29, Nik is 35. That's significant for GM's.

Ok lets simplify...

would you trade Kronwall for a 3rd round pick... assuming we are doing a rebuild.

would you trade Z+D for picks+prospects. Assuming they get us nothing by staying , vs ANYTHING back.

Lets assume for sake of argument we would get at LEAST a 3rd for Kronwall, and 2nd+prospect for Z+D.

(I assume we would get more, but that debate is really not the point of the question)

 

[WingedWheel1987]

35 or 36, Kronwall's decline has been absolutely brutal. If you blinked, you probably missed it.

I don't see any team trading for him if the Wings aren't willing to eat a large portion of his cap hit. Maybe on the third pairing of an elite cup contending team.

I think Iginla and Z are a good comparison in terms of age and production. Obviously Z still has several more years on his current contract, but if the Wings retained a portion of his salary, i definitely think he could fetch a 1st round pick. Not a top ten pick, but 15-20 sounds about right.

 

[8snake]

Ok lets simplify...

would you trade Kronwall for a 3rd round pick... assuming we are doing a rebuild.

would you trade Z+D for picks+prospects. Assuming they get us nothing by staying , vs ANYTHING back.

Lets assume for sake of argument we would get at LEAST a 3rd for Kronwall, and 2nd+prospect for Z+D.

(I assume we would get more, but that debate is really not the point of the question)

I would definitely deal Kronwall for a 3rd. Absolutely. Pav and Hank have earned the right to retire here, so I'm reluctant to want trade either one...unless that prospect is a great skating, skilled d-man that can pass the puck

 

[8snake]

35 or 36, Kronwall's decline has been absolutely brutal. If you blinked, you probably missed it.

I don't see any team trading for him if the Wings aren't willing to eat a large portion of his cap hit. Maybe on the third pairing of an elite cup contending team.

I think Iginla and Z are a good comparison in terms of age and production. Obviously Z still has several more years on his current contract, but if the Wings retained a portion of his salary, i definitely think he could fetch a 1st round pick. Not a top ten pick, but 15-20 sounds about right.

Here's the difference between Iggy and Hank...Iggy was still a 20+ goal scorer later in his career. So a GM could look at trading for him and know he is getting a productive goal scorer and a PP threat if nothing else. Hank is not a 20+ goal scorer anymore. He has much more value to the Wings in terms of his leadership and what they believe he provides as captain...but to other teams what does Zetterberg bring on the ice? Especially if he's not playing center. A 36 year old winger that is not getting you 20 goals won't pull a 1st round pick in a trade. I'm just being real with you.

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

All three should stay unless they want out

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

I would definitely deal Kronwall for a 3rd. Absolutely. Pav and Hank have earned the right to retire here, so I'm reluctant to want trade either one...unless that prospect is a great skating, skilled d-man that can pass the puck

Reading This board just cracks me up. " Kronwall for a 3rd"

Wtf

 

[Whoshattenkirkshoes]

Here's the difference between Iggy and Hank...Iggy was still a 20+ goal scorer later in his career. So a GM could look at trading for him and know he is getting a productive goal scorer and a PP threat if nothing else. Hank is not a 20+ goal scorer anymore. He has much more value to the Wings in terms of his leadership and what they believe he provides as captain...but to other teams what does Zetterberg bring on the ice? Especially if he's not playing center. A 36 year old winger that is not getting you 20 goals won't pull a 1st round pick in a trade. I'm just being real with you.

And Zetterberg brings allot that Iginla doesn't bring.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

All three should stay unless they want out

And no reason why they would want out, Datsyuk stated when he resigned that it was Detroit or retirement he had no desire to go an where else. And Zetterberg is our captain so he's not going any where and Kronwall only has 3 years left after this so i doubt that he would agree to a trade. All 3 are retiring as Red Wings bottom line.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Didn't see number 2 meant to vote that as well