Hypothetical question for the pro-tank crowd

[Frk It]

Let's say this is an alternative universe where we signed 0 UFA's, went into the season with like 20m cap space, played all the kids and actively tried to ice a roster that would get last.

Let's say we do all this and get last place but then get #3 in the lottery

Would you...

Be happy because we deployed the "right strategy" to maximize odds at getting a star but were unlucky

OR

Be mad because we were last and got pick #3

Click to read more...

 

[DTR]

Let's say this is an alternative universe where we signed 0 UFA's, went into the season with like 20m cap space, played all the kids and actively tried to ice a roster that would get last.

Let's say we do all this and get last place but then get #3 in the lottery

Would you...

Be happy because we deployed the "right strategy" to maximize odds at getting a star but were unlucky

OR

Be mad because we were last and got pick #3

I voted for the former because the worst place you can be in pro sports is the middle and right now that’s our future without some impact players.

 

[Frk It]

I voted for the former because the worst place you can be in pro sports is the middle and right now that’s our future without some impact players.

I don't know if we sign 0 UFA's that we could have finished under Chicago/Columbus even if we tried, that would be my obvious push back. But I am just curious to see what people think.

 

[Barry Amsterdam]

I voted for the former because the worst place you can be in pro sports is the middle and right now that’s our future without some impact players.

becoming the minnesota mild from 2000-2020

 

[raymond23]

We’ve done that multiple years now and I was not happy when the lottery f***ed us

 

[TheOtherOne]

Food for thought is that this implies that anyone on the roster you care about (Raymond, Seider, Berggren, whoever else is young and playing) just had a horrendously pathetic season going like 25-57.

 

[RED WINGS STOMP]

Hard to say, seems like, wherever the cutoff is for impact players in a draft, we always seem to be left right out of the consensus. So like this year, if we were really bad, we would end up drafting #5.

I feel Yzerman has done really well with our first rounders for the most part. We still need to accumulate assets. If somehow we can land another first at the trade deadline that doesn't involve dealing Larkin, that would be great.

 

[norrisnick]

I voted for the former because the worst place you can be in pro sports is the middle and right now that’s our future without some impact players.

Ok, what if the team finished 14th from the bottom, but won the lottery to pick... #3?

 

[Detroit Knights]

I know I am going to get flamed on this one lmao...

I wouldn't take Bedard first :/

People are saying he is the next mcdavid and all that but dude is small. He has no meat on him and if you put a lot of lb's on him, he wouldn't play the same at all. Now, if he fills out more and still plays the same, then i'll eat crow.

Has he ever gotten just completely rocked yet? I would love to see what his psychie is and how he reacts to getting flattened by a heavy guy because then I would solidify a full opinion on him. It's kind of like the movie "draft day" with Costner. Bo was a great player, but when he gets frustrated/sacked hard/hit hard, he becomes a mush.

Fantili or however you say his name seems like the guy that will be able to out-do bedard.

Let the flaming...............................................BEGIN

 

[norrisnick]

I know I am going to get flamed on this one lmao...

I wouldn't take Bedard first :/

People are saying he is the next mcdavid and all that but dude is short. He has no meat on him and if you put a lot of lb's on him, he wouldn't play the same at all. Now, if he fills out more and still plays the same, then i'll eat crow.

Has he ever gotten just completely rocked yet? I would love to see what his psychie is and how he reacts to getting flattened by a heavy guy because then I would solidify a full opinion on him. It's kind of like the movie "draft day" with Costner. Bo was a great player, but when he gets frustrated/sacked hard/hit hard, he becomes a mush.

Fantili or however you say his name seems like the guy that will be able to out-do bedard.

Let the flaming...............................................BEGIN

Have you ever seen Gaudreau? Dude is built like a 10yo.

 

[Detroit Knights]

Have you ever seen Gaudreau? Dude is built like a 10yo.

I have but Gaudreau is not touted as a McDavid, next coming of christ player like Bedard is.

I completely understand this year's draft, people are saying is deep. But the hype around Bedard is making me believe that if you don't tank well enough and miss out on him, you will continue to be terrible.

I honestly believe this fantili guy is going to be like a prime A++ player. Not to mention, these dudes look like they got the same face. If bedard had fantilli's body frame, I would be callying yzerman or whoever I can get on the phone to tank now and tank hard.

Hell, I'd chain myself to the doors to "spread awareness".

 

[norrisnick]

I have but Gaudreau is not touted as a McDavid, next coming of christ player like Bedard is.

I completely understand this year's draft, people are saying is deep. But the hype around Bedard is making me believe that if you don't tank well enough and miss out on him, you will continue to be terrible.

I honestly believe this fantili guy is going to be like a prime A++ player. Not to mention, these dudes look like they got the same face. If bedard had fantilli's body frame, I would be callying yzerman or whoever I can get on the phone to tank now and tank hard.

Hell, I'd chain myself to the doors to "spread awareness".

I think the big thing here is that Bedard is doing what he's doing with his size being what it is (and btw being 5'10" 180 at 17 is fine, they're not done growing). It's much easier to do well in Juniors just because you're big. See Rasmussen or Byfield. Bedard stands out with his only "physical" attribute of note being his shot. That's noteworthy because your shot doesn't care how big you are.

 

[Snuggs]

I know I am going to get flamed on this one lmao...

I wouldn't take Bedard first :/

People are saying he is the next mcdavid and all that but dude is small. He has no meat on him and if you put a lot of lb's on him, he wouldn't play the same at all. Now, if he fills out more and still plays the same, then i'll eat crow.

Has he ever gotten just completely rocked yet? I would love to see what his psychie is and how he reacts to getting flattened by a heavy guy because then I would solidify a full opinion on him. It's kind of like the movie "draft day" with Costner. Bo was a great player, but when he gets frustrated/sacked hard/hit hard, he becomes a mush.

Fantili or however you say his name seems like the guy that will be able to out-do bedard.

Let the flaming...............................................BEGIN

Bedards not even that skinny at 180+lbs being around 5'9. That's a solid dude. Short, but not like scrawny.

I was gonna show you video of guys being physical with him and Bedard handling it but, meh... You're just one of those hot take guys.

You're not going to eat crow because no one will remember but for sure right now you look dumb to everyone reading your comment who's also watched both players play. Which in spite of whatever type story you're spinning here, you haven't been watching, clearly. More internet reading that watching. Hell they both just played a stretch on the same team and you could tell the difference between the two then.

 

[Detroit Knights]

I think the big thing here is that Bedard is doing what he's doing with his size being what it is (and btw being 5'10" 180 at 17 is fine, they're not done growing). It's much easier to do well in Juniors just because you're big. See Rasmussen or Byfield. Bedard stands out with his only "physical" attribute of note being his shot. That's noteworthy because your shot doesn't care how big you are.

I saw 5/9 but thats semantics. I understand the shot is important, but when he starts playing with men, I don't see him being able to get those shots off as much or he will be rushed more because he will shy away from contact once he starts feeling it more.

Your amazing shot becomes worthless if you can't get it off. RE: Zadina. Small guy who was killing it in junior with a great shot, then he starts playing against physical hockey and is now worthless.

**Keep in mind, I am not saying Zadina was a bedard level prospect, I am specifically talking about size**

I get the league is moving towards more fast/agile skaters with skill, but if you look at every playoff/contender/SC Champion, you see grit, toughness, players with attitude more often then not.

Bedards not even that skinny at 180+lbs being around 5'9. That's a solid dude. Short, but not like scrawny.

I was gonna show you video of guys being physical with him and Bedard handling it but, meh... You're just one of those hot take guys.

You're not going to eat crow because no one will remember but for sure right now you look dumb to everyone reading your comment who's also watched both players play. Which inspite of whatever story you're spinning, you haven't been watch guy, clearly. More internet reading that watching.

I'm not a hot take guy, I honestly believe what I am saying, so show the video. I literally said that my opinion would change if I see him get rocked by a hit and still get's up and keeps moving and doesn't let it faze him.

 

[norrisnick]

I saw 5/9 but thats semantics. I understand the shot is important, but when he starts playing with men, I don't see him being able to get those shots off as much or he will be rushed more because he will shy away from contact once he starts feeling it more.

Your amazing shot becomes worthless if you can't get it off. RE: Zadina. Small guy who was killing it in junior with a great shot, then he starts playing against physical hockey and is now worthless.

**Keep in mind, I am not saying Zadina was a bedard level prospect, I am specifically talking about size**

I get the league is moving towards more fast/agile skaters with skill, but if you look at every playoff/contender/SC Champion, you see grit, toughness, players with attitude more often then not.


I'm not a hot take guy, I honestly believe what I am saying, so show the video. I literally said that my opinion would change if I see him get rocked by a hit and still get's up and keeps moving and doesn't let it faze him.

There is a CHASM between what Zadina did in juniors and what Bedard is doing this year.

Fil had 44 goals in 57 games the year he was drafted. Bedard is sitting on 45 goals in 38 games and counting.
Fil had 8 points in 7 WJC games his draft year. Bedard had 23 in 7 games.

It is night and day.

This is one of those situations where you're just overthinking it.

Fantilli and Carlsson combined for 11 points at the WJC.

 

[Snuggs]

No, I'm alright, I've done this thing many times with people, you've already rationalized without watching what he is. You can look up anything you want yourself if you have questions about his game and use it to solidify your own argument or discredit it.

You don't need me to show you a check and nit-pick the video of why he's soft or whatever. They're out there, maybe even on YouTube.

Bedard's a good prospect, he's not McDavid like; he's more like Patrick Kane, but he's still the best prospect to come along in a draft since... Prolly McDavid.

I don't really want to dog Fantilli either he's a good prospect too, but one guy has just been historically sensational not just good.

There is a CHASM between what Zadina did in juniors and what Bedard is doing this year.

Fil had 44 goals in 57 games the year he was drafted. Bedard is sitting on 45 goals in 38 games and counting.
Fil had 8 points in 7 WJC games his draft year. Bedard had 23 in 7 games.

It is night and day.

This is one of those situations where you're just overthinking it.

Fantilli and Carlsson combined for 11 points at the WJC.

I think so too.

Plus I think people keep comparing him to McDavid when most people are saying he's the best prospects since McDavid.

Style-wise or player comparison Bedard is easily more like Patrick Kane(minus the rapey stuff) than just about any other player playing right now.

Derailed the OP question, to answer that!

I voted the right thing. It's a hindsight answer. I'm not mad they spent money and tried. Just, when it doesn't work it there's consequences.

Maybe Wings will be just bad enough to land somewhere between 8-10 and get lucky for being so unlucky!

 

[DanielMarois]

Happy, the whole issue is that you do not need to win the lottery this year to get a potentially elite player. Out of all the years this is the absolute worst one for a rebuilding team to not finish at least in the bottom 10.

 

[ricky0034]

I mean I guess the first? not that anyone's ever "happy" about losing a lottery

it's not just a binary thing though and it always kinda weirds me out when people frame it that way

even if I can't have Bedard i'd still MUCH rather have say Leo Carlsson than Ryan Leonard

 

[norrisnick]

I mean I guess the first? not that anyone's ever "happy" about losing a lottery

it's not just a binary thing though and it always kinda weirds me out when people frame it that way

even if I can't have Bedard i'd still MUCH rather have say Leo Carlsson than Ryan Leonard

What are your thoughts on a Kaapo Kakko instead of a Jack Hughes?

Or a Jesperi Kotkaniemi instead of a Dahlin or Svechnikov?

Or even an Alexis Lafreniere?

You pick 3rd in 2018, 2nd in 2019, and 1st in 2020 and you are pretty much f***ed.

 

[Frk It]

Out of all the years this is the absolute worst one for a rebuilding team to not finish at least in the bottom 10.

We are literally bottom 10 right now...

 

[Claypool]

Let's say this is an alternative universe where we signed 0 UFA's, went into the season with like 20m cap space, played all the kids and actively tried to ice a roster that would get last.

Let's say we do all this and get last place but then get #3 in the lottery

Would you...

Be happy because we deployed the "right strategy" to maximize odds at getting a star but were unlucky

OR

Be mad because we were last and got pick #3

The team is going to lose either way. Free agents or not.

I'd much rather lose and try to win the lottery with a 20 percent chance than to still lose and only draft 9th.

 

[ricky0034]

What are your thoughts on a Kaapo Kakko instead of a Jack Hughes?

Or a Jesperi Kotkaniemi instead of a Dahlin or Svechnikov?

Or even an Alexis Lafreniere?

You pick 3rd in 2018, 2nd in 2019, and 1st in 2020 and you are pretty much f***ed.

I guess the Wings should trade the 1st overall for 10th overall if they win the lottery just to make sure they don't end up with a Daigle

this pretending that because every 3rd overall pick ever doesn't become a star somehow means it isn't way better to pick at 3 than 10 is just silly

 

[ThankGord]

Talk about how bad being in the middle is is so weird to me, like do people think we should go from last to first over the course of one draft? Starting at the bottom means you cross through the middle to get to the top…

 

[norrisnick]

I guess the Wings should trade the 1st overall for 10th overall if they win the lottery just to make sure they don't end up with a Daigle

this pretending that because every 3rd overall pick ever doesn't become a star somehow means it isn't way better to pick at 3 than 10 is just silly

The point is that you can suck ass for 3-5+ years, pick the consensus player at that spot, and still suck. You have to build your team as best you can and whatever pieces you can add via the draft, great.

But banking on a run of 5 years of lottery picks to magically construct a winning core is foolish to say the least.

 

[Winger98]

Just have to say that if we fall into a Patty Kane then we're getting a HOFer and a guy who can carry a scoring line on multiple cup teams. Sign me up.